I want to apologize too.

[RhinoP]

Basically, on my thread "Terminology", I said something about "trans who are attempting to brainwash themselves into thinking they realistically pass when they actually look like Andre The Giant."

I want to explain that quote so that no one misunderstands me:

Basically, I'm fiercely for equality and acceptance for all transgender people no matter of their beliefs, identity, appearance, or personality. I've never once contradicted myself on that. The real problem is that there's two types of people on this forum who, at large, seem to be strictly of the mindset "anti-medically transitioning" and I see them make negative comments on medical transitioning all the time. These groups "anti-medical mindset" groups seemingly are: the people who are so naturally beautifully androgynous that they don't need hormones or surgery, and the people who are so extremely different in appearance than the sex they want to be that they've, instead of choosing to medically transition at least as much as possible, instead decided to undergo intense mental therapy, religious pathways, and community event addictions to "convince" themselves that they truly do look realistically passable without medical changes (which then seems to cause them to believe that anyone can be happy living in physical denial, that the people who do not walk this non-medical path must be "less Holy than thou".) The pattern of these mindsets truly is indeed a bit like the "holier than thou" mindset of the religious people in the real world who discriminate against us to begin with.

These two groups, on average, are so extremely against medical transitioning, and while I 100% understand those emotions and do not believe that every person here has to medically transition to be accepted by our community or even some communities in the real world, I am indeed passionately supportive of both the people who do and do not want to medically or surgically transition. I am supportive of both types of people, but I do not think it's fair that one group gets to express negativity at another group all the time. Sometimes the negative comments are hidden under a sea of seemingly "positive advice"; for instance, the phrase "surgery and hormones are only something one should do down the road, a real transsexual is someone who's happy with themselves before those physical changes take place" can be seen as positive advice to the people who accept that type of mindset, but to me, seeing that type of speak is extremely painful to me (and is also painful to others) and naturally, for quite a long time, I have been equally pro-surgery in my way of speaking to equally express my views as others have the freedom to do on this forum as well.

So while I am not trying to make a statement with this thread, I am simply expressing why I was brash to say the the quote "trans who are attempting to psychologically brainwash themselves into thinking they realistically pass when they do not" because, as a mistake on my part, I indeed had inner anger to those very types who I interpret as having a "holier than thou" attitude toward medically transitioning. I do realize that it absolutely is not true that all anti-medical transitioners feel better, smarter, or more accomplished than those who do use medical techniques, but it is indeed something I've noticed among certain members and it was simply an emotion that, has for some time, indeed caused me pain; especially on top of the gatekeeper roles that the medical professionals in the real world have against me at this point in my life.

I am terribly sorry if my quote offended anyone who (justifiably) had no clue what I truly meant by the statement, and I absolutely did not explain myself properly. Even if I were to have, it was probably something I should not have posted!

[Randi]

I didn't see the comment on the other thread so there's nothing for me to forgive. As in the outside world, we have to choose our words carefully so as not to hurt anyones feelings. There are serious issues involved here and our words can hurt more than we know. As you know, I am of the camp who will need FFS eventually but without the necessary funds available I must find other ways to cope with my reality.

Don't worry too much about it-learn from your mistake and keep moving forward.

Randi

[SkylerKts]

you should link this to the other thread because anybody who is reading that thread is not seeing this

further more I feel like you have the right to express your opinion just as anyone else is right to debate your opinion thus the reason you would express it. with that I will say I feel like you have a valid point that passing is easier for some and not for others and you think we should all be happy with who we are regardless of our 'looks' because we are trans on the inside.

if someone is offended because it hurts your feelings that you needed surgery to pass and others dont well then tough luck. it hurts my feelings that it matters so much for people to judge me on the person that I am by the way that I look and judged wrongly for I am a smart and kind person who abstains from sex...judged oppositely. Maybe you were too harsh with your andre the giant term. We need to toughen up. I didnt think it sounded like bashing at all. Trust me I get bashed and that sounded like a pin dropping on the ground next to some of the ->-bleeped-<- Ive been through. Girls lets be straight.

[Miniar]

The reason people disagree with you is NOT because they are against medical transition, but because they disagree with;

1. The suggestion that in order to be considered a woman a transitioners "must" medically transition.
2. The very rude mockery of women who may not pass and the insistence of calling them things such as "delusional" or "andre the giant". (Seriously! That's very rude!)
3. The idea that someone can tell another person their identity.

These are very simple things here.

No one on this forum, that I am aware of, is against medical transition.
I'm one of the people who's been the most prolific in ripping apart your posts (due to the amount of ignorance, shaming and misinformation therein) and I am taking testosterone and I've had two surgeries thus far.

"a real transsexual is someone who's happy with themselves before those physical changes take place" +
Can you link to where this comment was made?

"I have been equally pro-surgery in my way of speaking to equally express my views as others have the freedom to do on this forum as well"
You have repeatedly stated that a "real" transsexual is someone who seeks medical transition, whereas people who get married, have children, etc, are "not" real transsexuals. This is not "equally" anything.

"I am terribly sorry if my quote offended anyone who (justifiably) had no clue what I truly meant by the statement"
... Are you suggesting that the only way people get offended by you REPEATEDLY calling trans women "Andre the Giant" or REPEATEDLY stating that "real transsexuals" ALWAYS seek medical transition or any number of the other very rude, self-important, ignorant statements that you've made is because people "misunderstand" you?

I'm sorry, but that's just not an apology!

[Taka]

"trans who are attempting to brainwash themselves into thinking they realistically pass when they actually look like Andre The Giant."

the biggest problem i see with that quote is that even if a woman really did look like andre the giant, she still has the full right to present as female if she wants to. and if she does present as female, nobody has any right to accuse her of trying to "brainwash herself into thinking she realistically passes", as even a woman who looks like a man, cis or trans, has the same right as any other woman to wear female clothing whether she passes or not. the quote also seems to assume that many trans women look like andre the giant, which is very unlikely to be true

[RhinoP]

I believe in everything that's being said here, again, loving yourself for who you are, both outside and in, always seems to be an answer that many find themselves able to do and for many people, they are able to accomplish this without a physical change. Wether the success of this method depends on how many times they were raped, beaten, yelled at, threatened, bullied, neglected, ignored, ect ect as a child because of their birth appearance and identity, I will not say my opinion on that.

I certainly did not make up the nickname "Andre The Giant", and actually I was simply quoting the type of harassment I hear in my real life; many young adults I surround myself with make fun of manly transsexuals all the time, it's quite sickening the names they come up with, and I was simply quoting that type of harassment. To an extent, if you're an extremely masculine trans who dresses "unrealistically" (just using this term in a relative manner; I personally myself believe that everyone should dress exactly how they want as long as they have the bravery to do so), you do have to accept that you will experience harassment at some point in your life. I was not trying to make fun of anyone and I do not think ugly things about masculine trans (other than of coarse "Well, she still looks like a man.") but I know that most of society indeed thinks of much worse stuff. I know that it's not right to be the "bearer of bad news" in a positive community and that's why I'm again apologizing for my statement; it was both rude, misunderstood, and I should not have gone anywhere near it.

[Randi]

Sadly Andre is no longer living-he died in 1993. He was a really big man. I got to see him wrestle once and he put on a good show.

Randi

[RhinoP]

Oh trust me I don't disrespect Andre The Giant, he had a pituitary disease called Acromegaly, a disease my grandfather died from, my father once was diagnosed with and had to have brain surgery to stop the effects, and starting Monday, I'm having an MRI and a series of tests to confirm if I also have the genetic condition or not, as I have almost every sign of it's early stages.

I know for a fact that growth disorders like this can be extremely traumatic both to MTF's and even to normal men; people with this disease or alike conditions are not widely respected because our population at large doesn't know about the diseases nor has respect. Certainly, middle aged people with these types of conditions tend to find much more respect at large (and many tend to find a place among the sports world) but young adults and especially MTF's tend to get a lot of social abuse for this type of appearance and are often judged negatively; both physically and personality wise. (A set-in-stone concept in psychology is that human beings, if they innately judge a person as 'ugly', they will literally attempt to find things wrong with that person's personality in order to have a 'justified' excuse to discriminate against them - this has happened to me a billion times.)

It's why I simply want cosmetic surgery (with FFS goals). I want to reverse my condition in hopes of reverting my craniofacial growth back to what it was before my condition seemed to develop (a more symmetrical, soft, "human" face), and it just so happens that this type of correction would also give me confidence and more passibility in a female role. My goals are killing two birds with one stone, and because of my extensive experience with both conditions like this and facial surgery (I've already had two nasal surgeries), that's why I support medical changes in theory.

However, I'll be the first one to admit that there's about 3 cosmetic/craniofacial doctors in the country who are safe choices and that all others should never be trusted with your body or face. I don't want anyone to think for a second that I don't know the risks to these sorts of things!

[Taka]

I certainly did not make up the nickname "Andre The Giant", and actually I was simply quoting the type of harassment I hear in my real life; many young adults I surround myself with make fun of manly transsexuals all the time, it's quite sickening the names they come up with, and I was simply quoting that type of harassment. To an extent, if you're an extremely masculine trans who dresses "unrealistically" (just using this term in a relative manner; I personally myself believe that everyone should dress exactly how they want as long as they have the bravery to do so), you do have to accept that you will experience harassment at some point in your life.

this is what you should have said in the original post. the way you wrote it, it sounded like those rude words were your own. i think you would be much less likely to be understood if you tell why you use the words you use, and give "credit" for them to the right people

I was not trying to make fun of anyone and I do not think ugly things about masculine trans (other than of coarse "Well, she still looks like a man.") but I know that most of society indeed thinks of much worse stuff. I know that it's not right to be the "bearer of bad news" in a positive community and that's why I'm again apologizing for my statement; it was both rude, misunderstood, and I should not have gone anywhere near it.

i'm glad you understand. i'm not one of them who were most hurt by what you wrote, but thanks for the apology anyway

[Miniar]

Oh trust me I don't disrespect Andre The Giant, he had a pituitary disease called Acromegaly, a disease my grandfather died from, my father once was diagnosed with and had to have brain surgery to stop the effects, and starting Monday, I'm having an MRI and a series of tests to confirm if I also have the genetic condition or not, as I have almost every sign of it's early stages.

It's not treated with brain surgery.

[Taka]

It's not treated with brain surgery.

online sources say the first line treatment usually is surgery, and as far as i know the pituitary gland is close enough to the brain?

[Randi]

Whatever your condition is I hope you get a favorable report from the doctors.

Randi