Looking for suggestions for FFS

[Kelly J. P.]

Allo everyone... recently I've been looking at FFS. I seem to pass most of the time, for some reason - it could be my tiny height and build, coupled with a workable voice, but if I showed these pictures to someone, they would definitely not think female. I know I don't look the same in real life - these pictures are slightly brutal, but they're about as honest as possible. The lighting even highlights all the bad and hides the good.

So, while I know I have to take more if I'm sending them to any of the surgeons out there (higher resolution and lighting quality being what I'd need), I don't have access to a decent camera, so these will have to do.

I have...

[removed]

(Holy dysphoria attacks, Batman... these photos are terrible!)

The trachea shave is a given. These pictures are pre-laser, without make-up, etc. They're also a little depressing. It's hard to believe I'm only 18... I was thinking about forehead, nose, jaw, brow lift, and hairline.  Honestly, though, from my POV, I feel like not even FFS will be enough when I see those images. At the very least, however, it would help.

I've looked at Virtual FFS. I would do it, but to be honest, that's not really in the budget. A minimum-wage job can only do so many things at one time 

So I'm wondering what every one of you thinks... which procedures need to be done? I'm trying to put a financial plan in place, as FFS is, after laser, the next thing I want to tackle... Don't worry about being brutal. It feels like my feelings have disappeared... I'm blaming the progesterone!

Oh, and I'm not a vampire. 


Best wishes,

Jordan (taking suggestions on a new name)

[VannaSiamese]

Jordan, I had a very similar profile as you do in your pictures, and the doctor I went to suggested that I get trachea shave, nose job and chin implant.  The implant was to balance out my profile with the nose job.  You already look very female to me, you shouldn't have much trouble (if any) passing as is now in my opinion.  In your case I think going minimal is best, since you already have a feminine look about you. 

[Rabbit]

Are you on hormones? I think you already look very very feminine.... if you aren't on hormones yet, I would go for that first and see where it goes. Really, it doesn't seem like you need FFS (other than the shave). I guess you "could" play around with things, but the risk and costs aren't really worth it IMO (it would be turning an apple into an orange).

[AbraCadabra]

Links do not show any pics for me, just blank.
Axelle

[Kelly J. P.]

Jordan, I had a very similar profile as you do in your pictures, and the doctor I went to suggested that I get trachea shave, nose job and chin implant.  The implant was to balance out my profile with the nose job.  You already look very female to me, you shouldn't have much trouble (if any) passing as is now in my opinion.  In your case I think going minimal is best, since you already have a feminine look about you.

Seriously? I'm not about to say you're lying or crazy - I'd be lying or crazy to say that - but, wow. Those were the worst pictures I could have possibly posted of myself... ever. But I can and will say... thank-you very much. For the self-esteem boost as well as your honest opinion. Two of those were already on my list... and a chin implant? That's not likely to be terribly expensive. Relatively speaking. And honestly, I can't believe I didn't see it coming. I don't look at my profiles very often I guess. But thank you so much!

I seem to pass, but as you might guess, I really don't understand why. I must be seeing things differently from everyone else, or you are just being way too nice.

Are you on hormones? I think you already look very very feminine.... if you aren't on hormones yet, I would go for that first and see where it goes. Really, it doesn't seem like you need FFS (other than the shave). I guess you "could" play around with things, but the risk and costs aren't really worth it IMO (it would be turning an apple into an orange).

Not sure what the apple-orange comment means. I've been on hormones for some time, about 7 months, though honestly HRT has been close to non-responsive, so I I may not look terribly different from before, and I know developments below the neck are likewise very slight.

I was sure that these pictures would have people recommending every procedure in the book. But nose, shave, and chin implant... I'll look into those. Would anyone know what each costs, roughly?

Still looking for as many opinions as I can have. But thank you again Rabbit and Vanna for the responses.

[V M]

I have only one suggestion, save your money and/or spend it on something else because you don't need FFS dear    IMO

[VeronikaFTH]

Seriously? I'm not about to say you're lying or crazy - I'd be lying or crazy to say that - but, wow. Those were the worst pictures I could have possibly posted of myself... ever. But I can and will say... thank-you very much. For the self-esteem boost as well as your honest opinion. Two of those were already on my list... and a chin implant? That's not likely to be terribly expensive. Relatively speaking. And honestly, I can't believe I didn't see it coming. I don't look at my profiles very often I guess. But thank you so much!

I seem to pass, but as you might guess, I really don't understand why. I must be seeing things differently from everyone else, or you are just being way too nice.

Not sure what the apple-orange comment means. I've been on hormones for some time, about 7 months, though honestly HRT has been close to non-responsive, so I I may not look terribly different from before, and I know developments below the neck are likewise very slight.

I was sure that these pictures would have people recommending every procedure in the book. But nose, shave, and chin implant... I'll look into those. Would anyone know what each costs, roughly?

Still looking for as many opinions as I can have. But thank you again Rabbit and Vanna for the responses.

You do look feminine already but not 100%, the side profile is more masculine. It is partially your face, partially your size that help you pass. It's a combo of all things not just the face. Especially if your voice is good, you'll pass no problem..

Here's what I would suggest.

Forehead/sinus/brow bone reduction (it's a bit prominent), rhinoplasty, and if your chin looks recessed due to an overbite, I'd think of perhaps a sliding genioplasty to bring your lower jaw forward to correct the bite, rather than a chin implant. If your bite is ok then a chin implant will fix it. Then trachea cartilage reduction.

You have a heart shaped face, your cheekbones look high but the forward projection isn't that much in profile. Possibly cheek implants to increase the forward projection, but they will look better in comparison if you have the rhinoplasty and the brow ridge set back or smoothed out.

You have a great hairline.. no problems with the hair, lucky you!

Of course none of this is "necessary"... but if you want perfection, those are all the things I see.

[Julie Marie]

There's both masculine and feminine features showing in the pics.  The side pic shows a pronounced male brow.  That can be hidden by bangs or you could let a surgeon reduce it.  You have nice, wide open eyes.  The front pic shows a slightly male jaw.  Fat deposits that could result from HRT might hide that.  You could do your nose if it bothers you and give it a very feminine appearance.  That and the brow reduction would make a big difference.

Fix your hair, put on some makeup and I can see that face passing just as is.  You have a number of female facial features that you can play on.  Since you're only 18, you could see nice results from HRT alone but it will probably take a few years.  Beard and voice are the biggest tells.  Fix that, if needed, and you're well on your way.  But, like anyone else, you have to decide what is truly important to you.

[Rabbit]

Not sure what the apple-orange comment means.

Hehe I mean you getting FFS would be like going from looking like a female apple to a female orange Yea, you would look different, but both would be female (and both are nice).

I'm not sure you would be gaining much in terms of how you look (since you look nice already), you would just be putting yourself through a lot for pretty minimal gains (and actually, it is possible you could be taking steps backwards with ffs!)

[Ms.Behavin]

You don't need FFS,  The facial bone structure is in the Fem range already.  I have not had any FFS and I started off less happy with my face.  Hang in there.

Beni

[Kelly J. P.]

Well... again, thank you all very much. I'm going to have to find out what some of the surgeons are charging for brow ridge/nose/chin +possibly jaw... but by the time I have the money for those things, I will likely be three years into HRT, and with those years, it's possible that I won't need one or two of those. So the money can go to my education.

I realize that the largest obstacle in transition is, so far, gaining weight. I'm underweight... and the pics probably show it. At a healthy weight - say, 20 pounds heavier - it's possible that that, plus more time on hormones, will have a significant impact.

So far, being seven months into HRT (if you count the first two or three) hasn't done much. Emotionally, I'm infinitely better-off... I was doing experiments with my hormones recently, and things just got worse - I started feeling like I did pre-HRT. No emotions... just a zombie. In light of that, I've been so grateful for the profound emotional improvement I've experienced. I imagine that, if I put on weight, and give things more time, the physical effects that hormones may produce could also be profound.

... I guess I should either develop a pasta obsession, or buy expensive products to ensure my gain of weight. I'll let you all know how that works out, if it does. 

Always looking for more opinions... but I think I know what needs doing. However, I am taking suggestions for a new first name. I might end up sticking with Jordan, but I was after something more strictly female. Jordan is a little too ambiguous... Ah well. Maybe it will just come?

Thanks again... thank you all so much. I say thanks a lot because when it stands alone, it feels flat. I wish it sounded more sincere by itself.


Best wishes.

[Julie Marie]

So far, being seven months into HRT (if you count the first two or three) hasn't done much.

Seven months should be enough time to see some changes, at least in the soft tissues.  Since you're 18 it's doubtful your growth plates have fused completely so you could see some changes in bone structure.  But by now you should see something from HRT, unless your dosages are too low.  Have you (and/or your doctor) checked your blood levels against GGs your age?

[Kelly J. P.]

Seven months should be enough time to see some changes, at least in the soft tissues.  Since you're 18 it's doubtful your growth plates have fused completely so you could see some changes in bone structure.  But by now you should see something from HRT, unless your dosages are too low.  Have you (and/or your doctor) checked your blood levels against GGs your age?

My growth plates have probably fused. I haven't actually grown, bonewise, for over a year.

My T is suppressed, and my E is within the appropriate range. My levels are fine... And even if they weren't, I'm on the Doc's maximum doses... which are, admittedly, a little conservative, but they're in agreement with Vancouver Coastal Heath's doctor's guidelines. Odd thing is the patient guideline has the maximum on Estrace as twice as much as the doctors' guideline. Progesterone was recently introduced, so we're seeing if that does anything. The lack of things happening may just be a matter of my weight not being high enough. I'm around 100... probably 105. At 5'3.5" I should gain about 20 more lbs for a more healthy weight...

Of course, maybe hormones are just weird for me. I started puberty at seven! I don't believe I finished puberty... my facial hair isn't done (it's there, but it's not terribly dense or widespread) and my hairline hasn't receded all that much. Body hair is definitely lower than my fathers'... chest hair and etc are sparse, at least the dark hairs. Light hairs, well, there're lots of those. That's 10ish years into puberty. Maybe MtF development will likewise be slow.

Ultimately, I can only try to rationalize it. I'm just going to go on without expectations... expectations are, for the most part. disappointing in my experience. I'm grateful that I'm not totally non-reactive... I have breasts, and sometime next year, they may fill out an A cup! Yay!

Sorry. That wasn't very optimistic of me.

 

[Julie Marie]

Yeah, we're all different.  I had breast growth while on transdermals but my blood levels we're more male-like.  Then my doc put me on injections and breast growth stopped but my blood levels were "perfect".

As far as growth plates, I'm no expert but I think they typically stop growing around 25 or so.  It's not only height, it's all bone growth.  Guys might stop getting taller but they will grow in chest and shoulder size.  For women, their hips might fill out some more after their height tops out.  So E might give you some growth there.

[Kelly J. P.]

Oh, that's interesting!

I was asking my doctor about switching to transdermals. She's having a heck of a time getting them covered, though, as there's no real literature to state why it's better than oral administration. Even though oral has done diddly squat, if you'll pardon the phrase.

I'm hoping something will happen one day. Until then...

I bounce.


Best wishes 

[Julie Marie]

Injections and transdermals both bypass the liver.  Orals can be "melted" under the tongue to reduce the workload on the liver.  You also get more of the meds into your system because the capillaries under the tongue directly absorb the medication and the liver doesn't filter so much out.  I have to take as much as twice the prescribed oral medication (allergies, infection, HRT, whatever) because, as my doctor says, my liver filters too much out.  Must be an Irish liver.

[Maga Girl]

Your face is perfect!! you only need make-up and good haircut

http://www.facebook.com/elleryxo

[Kelly J. P.]

Your face is perfect!! you only need make-up and good haircut

http://www.facebook.com/elleryxo

I fear that you may be far too kind Narela. But thanks a bunch anyhow    It's a longshot from perfect, especially in those pics.
... I'm not entirely sure why you linked Ellery, though. It would be great if I could look that amazing some day... but I'll put away my jealousy for the time being. I'm just too busy to hang onto negative emotions these days 


Julie... I attempted an experiment not too long ago, switching to sublingual as opposed to oral. It didn't work out very well. The timing was probably poor, as I was starting progesterone at around the same time, but I found that my mood seemed to revert to the way it was before I started HRT. That is, devoid of happiness, and mostly just grim and bitter. Perhaps I should have kept going... but I didn't notice anything other than that emotional difference. And I was not one bit happy with that. My emotional changes are the most profound effect I've experienced so far... I would not give my constant happiness up for anything.

One thing I have to write down to remind myself, though... I wonder if I can get BA covered somehow. If I can't grow past the budding stage (which is so far how it seems) then, just maybe...

I'll have to bring it up with my doctor.

(Hormones are a wonderful thing. I almost feel like crying lol. *Tells self to get off her pity pot.*)

Anywho, thanks very much for the replies, as always and sincerely. And I need to forbid myself from visiting Ellery's page.

Best wishes!