Breast growth dormancy period

[JungianZoe]

As for my doctor, I don't know if she's an endo but she's in general practice.  She's also known as being one of the top docs in my area for HRT, at the top of everyone's recommendation lists.  Her practice takes about eight weeks to get into and appointments are booked months in advance.  So even if she's not an endo, I like to think she knows her stuff.

Then again, my case seems to be anything but ordinary now.   I'm just not having an easy time with HRT at all, but it's typical for my body.  I counteract every treatment any doctor had ever given me my entire life, to the point that I've always needed the strongest doses of the strongest medications to get through anything.  I think my HRT treatment is probably way too conservative for how my body has historically reacted to meds.

Thankfully I haven't had any side effects from the depo except for the crushing moods.  For a short while, spiro seemed to decrease my already-sparse body hair, and that stopped with depo but no additional body hair has come up.  My sex drive on spiro was out of control and depo killed it.  As for hearing, I wouldn't notice anything like that because that's my reality anyway: unable to hear people very well in crowds.  I had hearing loss from ear infections as an infant so it's been like that my whole life.

[Ann Onymous]

FWIW, those who report issues of any type with progesterone tend to do so more with any of the Provera family as opposed to the compounded or micronized progesterones...it may very well come back to the same differences some had with natural versus synthetic estrogen (I was one who had to go to synthetic in order to get any sort of a response since the system processed the natural through far too quickly to do anything out of taking mammoth dosages). 

[JungianZoe]

FWIW, those who report issues of any type with progesterone tend to do so more with any of the Provera family as opposed to the compounded or micronized progesterones...it may very well come back yto the same differences some had with natural versus synthetic estrogen (I was one who had to go to synthetic in order to get any sort of a response since the system processed the natural through far too quickly to do anything out of taking mammoth dosages).

I don't know how my body reacts to synthetics versus naturals because my doctor has been set on these two courses of treatment, either spiro or depo.  And at this point, I'm having grave doubts as to the effectiveness of my last depo shot at suppressing my T levels.  These constant and uncontrollable erections and total lack of breast sensitivity and tenderness are pretty good indicators.  On top of that, I'm now having to shave my face twice a day because I'm so stubbly after five or six hours.

I really wish I knew why anti-androgens weren't working on me at all... or why they stop working.  My stupid body just sucks.

[Bird]

It sounds like a fairly frustating situation Zoe

I wish you could find another doctor, as your current one seens to lack much knowledge or willingness to change his course of action.

[JungianZoe]

It sounds like a fairly frustating situation Zoe

I wish you could find another doctor, as your current one seens to lack much knowledge or willingness to change his course of action.

I have an appointment with her on August 13th (or 16th... that paper's at home on my desk) and if I don't get some satisfactory answers, I think I'm going for a second opinion somewhere.  I can't help but think that there's more out there than what she's doing, something that might help people who have problems with conservative forms of HRT.  It's maddening!

[Bird]

From someone who studies medicine..

YES. There is plenty that can be done for you. You just have to find a doctor that is either already experienced or willing to study your case. Preferably both.

[JungianZoe]

Well, just to throw my few pence worth in.  Whoever said about hormones affecting different people differently, has hit it on the nail.  Prior to starting, I was drowning in information.  Then, as time passes by I realise that my growth is occuring in a way nothing like my other friends.  After a few months of E & Spiro, tenderness, and starting to swell, don't touch etc.  Then had to stop E for a month and was worried about stopping the growth. What rubbish!  Carried on with just Spiro and tenderness almost gone, but boobs keep growing !  Go figure that.  I think we have to be aware that not only are people different but that the time things take to happen varies with people also.

So, in a nutshell, just stick with it and all will be well in the end. 

Debbie

Thank you, Debbie!

I'm trying really hard to be patient and not stress out about this, but what's been going on lately has me worried that testosterone is back to ravaging my body and I'm going to lose what very little gains I had in the first place.   I already have a history of one anti-androgen not working, and now I'm faced with the possibility of a second, and a doctor who tells me I have no other options and that HRT simply might not work on me.  She literally said that back in March and now I'm fearing it's true...

[regan]

I'm trying really hard to be patient and not stress out about this, but what's been going on lately has me worried that testosterone is back to ravaging my body and I'm going to lose what very little gains I had in the first place.   I already have a history of one anti-androgen not working, and now I'm faced with the possibility of a second, and a doctor who tells me I have no other options and that HRT simply might not work on me.  She literally said that back in March and now I'm fearing it's true...

There is one documented case of estrogen insensitivity that I'm aware of.  True EIS is extremely rare.  I would think then HRT would work for you, its just a matter of finding the right combination of medications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen_insensitivity_syndrome

[AbraCadabra]

Hon, since you perceive having an AA issue --- ever considered orchie?

It should not be THAT expensive, or?

Axelle

[JungianZoe]

There is one documented case of estrogen insensitivity that I'm aware of.  True EIS is extremely rare.  I would think then HRT would work for you, its just a matter of finding the right combination of medications.

I'm definitely not estrogen insensitive considering I had previous breast growth from a point when my testosterone was under control.  The problem is that my body is a genius at overcoming and overcompensating for any medications that get put into it.  My liver is ridiculously strong in that regard.  We can't get my testosterone under control through medication and my doc says I have no more options.

Hon, since you perceive having an AA issue --- ever considered orchie?

It should not be THAT expensive, or?

Axelle

For the reasons above, most definitely.  But I really don't want to considering I want the full surgery someday and want as good of results as possible.   But I may have no other choice at this point in time.

[AbraCadabra]

Orchie followed by SRS can be fine even after 5 years as we have heard already.

If you are circumcised, most US male-bodied babies are/were, you have some need for skingraft very probably in any case to get reasonable depth. My knowing.

Also the surgeon doing orchie must be familiar with SRS techniques as not to create an issue for the SRS surgeon later on. These days this aught to be not problem IMHO.

Axelle
PS: Then there is of course some emotional issue involved that only you can sort out...

[JessicaH]

The T lowering properties of medroxyprogesterone acetate (provera) are well documented and one of the only drugs usted in the US to chemically castrate sex offenders.  I have personally used it just for the purpose of reducing T and it is very effective. he

Cyproterone Acetate is a much more effective antiandrogen but it is not FDA approved (but not banned or controlled). CA is a generic drug so drug companies are not going to to spend money to push through the FDA for MTF transsexuals and the other population of users for CA are geriatiric prostate cancer patients and the CA is harder on the geriatric patients liver.

The dangers of CA are overexagerated and come from studies wit ha geriatric population taking over 800 mg/day which is WAY more than a M2F needs by a factor of 8-16x. Personally, I'm lucky since my T is under 20 with a little spiro every day. Thanks to everclear :-)

* (By the way, I'm not aware of progesterone suppressing T levels. Estrogen alone can have that effect, but progesterone? Not aware of any mechanism.) *

Seem your doc is doing some Guinea-pigging. In fairness HRT is not so much a science as more of an art form. But excuse me, some basics also apply to art.
PS: * Cyproterone acetate (Androcur) is another option *
Not so! It's not FDA approved i.e. a banned substance in the US.
Only used on sex-offenders for all I know. It is approved in Europe, also SA.
It is ~4 times stronger then Spiro. I used it for some time.

[Princess of Hearts]

"My stupid body just sucks."


No it doesn't Zoe, it is very wise.   I know your body's defence mechanisms - it considers hrt etc to be something alien and it is doing it's utmost to protect you from an alien pathogen - are getting you down Zoe I sympathise with you though.   

[AbraCadabra]

...medroxyprogesterone acetate (provera) are well documented and one of the only drugs usted in the US to chemically castrate sex offenders.

I was of the impression we were talking about "micronised progesterone" i.e bio-identical, sorry.

Reading up on Provera, it suppresses BOTH estrogen and testosterone!
Fine for male sex-offenders I guess. But using it as an AA? Suppressing E as well?

Hm,
Axelle

[JessicaH]

...medroxyprogesterone acetate (provera) are well documented and one of the only drugs usted in the US to chemically castrate sex offenders.

I was of the impression we were talking about "micronised progesterone" i.e bio-identical, sorry.

Reading up on Provera, it suppresses BOTH estrogen and testosterone!
Fine for male sex-offenders I guess. But using it as an AA? Suppressing E as well?

Hm,
Axelle

Since we take E and don't manufacture it except for a little bit that made from testosterone by conversion by the reductase enzyme, I don't think it is going to interfere with our estrogen production unless it is locking in to estrogen receptors at the cellular level and blocking estrodiol (like phytoestrogens can do).

Depo provera is well documented for use by M2E (male to eunuch) to lower T levels and is often accompanied by gyno unless an anti estrogen is used like Arimidex or Tamoxafen. You can research personal accounts at www.eunuch.org for other peoples experiences.

[AbraCadabra]

Thanks for clearing up some more of the details Jessica,

as for me, I'd be most apprehensive to use THAT drug (medroxyprogesterone acetate, Provera). Thanks to this thread I learned that for myself. Jolly good show.

Thanks again for sharing,
Axelle

[LilKittyCatZoey]

I'm definitely not estrogen insensitive considering I had previous breast growth from a point when my testosterone was under control.  The problem is that my body is a genius at overcoming and overcompensating for any medications that get put into it.  My liver is ridiculously strong in that regard.  We can't get my testosterone under control through medication and my doc says I have no more options.

For the reasons above, most definitely.  But I really don't want to considering I want the full surgery someday and want as good of results as possible.   But I may have no other choice at this point in time.

Ok dont kill me over this but since Thailand increased the age limit to 21 for SRS, the number MTF's getting castrated has increased. Ok not suggesting do it but maybe look into it because that should help until you can do the SRS. Again i would do it myself but i havent looked into it but if you have no options maybe its time you consider it as your AA.

Love Zoey 

[AbraCadabra]

Zoey,
see post #33 --- suggesting 'orchie' (orchiectomy) = castrated.
The latter is just a much more nasty sounding word, at least to me.
Axelle

[JungianZoe]

So here's the deal... apparently, this was caused by the Prozac after all.  I called my doctor because that semi-erection I had had lasted a full 8 days and I was tired of it.  Yes, that's 8 full days and nights without going away at all.  It wasn't bad enough that I couldn't tuck (just poorly done) and it didn't hurt, but it was terribly annoying.  She suggested going off the Prozac since I'd only been on for 20 days.

Would you believe it?  After a few days off, that erection went away and it feels like someone's put clothespins on my nipples.  The growing pain is officially coming back.  Unfortunately, so are the crying fits... I still have a headache from the one I had in the two hours before I went to bed last night.

[Bird]

Zoe did you have these mood swings before HRT?

Strogen and P does changes our moods, and you will be a teenager emotionally speaking until you learn how to live with the new set of emotions. As for Provera, I use it as part of my HRT, since I do a hormonal cycle, and things have been working great for me.

Endogenous progestorene does reduces Estrogen concentration in natal females as well. All in all, it  depends of how your body reacts to the drugs and what kind of HRT you are doing, not the drug itself. As everyone says, your mileage may vary.