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So I'm the Weird Guy at Work

Started by Ryno, July 28, 2011, 10:27:09 PM

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Ryno

People at my new workplace are pretty friendly and outgoing. Overall it seems like an easy place to fit into, but already, after only a few shifts, I sort of feel at odds there. People greet me friendly enough but they seem ... cautious around me, sort of uncomfortable.

I am pre-T and stealth, as in, I applied as male. I figured if anyone ever pressures me for an explanation, I'd explain that I have a medical condition and leave it at that. But I also think the main problem is my voice. Not even that it's higher than most guys, but more that I'm so self-conscious about it and it makes me act a little socially awkward. I've noticed I'm not as outgoing as usual and a little nervous when I talk. So they're probably picking that up. I do know they talk about me because on my second or third shift I was told they call me "Mini Mark", the name of the manager, because I apparently look just like him. Some chick I hadn't even met yet saw me as the manager walked by and stopped us, and was like, "See? Doesn't he look JUST like Mark??" I mean, I had no idea who the hell she was but she sure knew me. I just hate to think what kinds of things they might be speculating about me. I highly doubt trans is one of them, so every other thought that goes through my mind makes me incredibly anxious. It's the unknown that worries me.

I also have very little experience interacting with other guys, as one of the guys. I mean, in high school, I chilled with a lot of guys and they pretty much saw me as one of them, but I guess it's different when they actually perceive you as a guy.

I guess the whole thing just makes me really nervous and uncomfortable while in reality, this place would be a golden opportunity for me to meet people in my new city. But I'm closed up in this little self-conscious shell and can't seem to find a way to break out. I figure once I'm on T and have been for several months I'll start to feel more confident about things like my voice, but until then, I'm just having a lot of trouble finding a niche. I don't plan on being there forever but I will have to be for a few more months. I just can't stand feeling singled out when everyone else gets along so well.

Anyone ever found themselves in this situation? Any thoughts on how to get over my voice issues? What did you do to relax or get by?
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tekla

If you have a crew of people who've been working together for years it often takes quite a while to become one of the gang.  Depending on how deep they are together years perhaps.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Arch

Well...I was sort of in a similar situation with my gay men's group. I started going when I was only a few months on T. It was maybe a month before top surgery (I was binding), and I don't even know how much my voice had dropped at that point, but I guess I was in tenor range. I sure wasn't a baritone yet. I was being read as male a lot, all over the place, but not consistently. In fact, I arrived early at the first meeting, and one of the facilitators read me as a girl and told me that the women's group was meeting in another room. I challenged him, and he was mortified that he had misread me. I suppose having a deeper voice helped with that.

For several reasons--not just because I was trans and stealth--I took quite some time to get comfortable there. These guys had known each other for a long time, and I was one of the new guys. So I just let it unfold naturally; I took things at my own pace and didn't push it.  If you're at this job for only a few months, you might be on your way out before you start to fit in.

One technique that helps is asking people questions. I mean, don't get too personal, but give people a chance to talk to you about themselves. This technique has a number of advantages. For one thing, you don't have to say much. You also learn about the other person. They feel good--most of us like to talk about ourselves, after all--and you can get a reputation as a good listener and a nice guy.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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tekla

If they know you're not going to be there long, it's even less reason to care about you.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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jordonna10

Seriously...by the end of the first month your going to be stopping that lady and be saying, "gee you look just like mark too"

Give it time, I'm sure you will fit in.


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Jennie

Hi Ryan, I hope things get better for you sooner than you think.  When I was growing up I was not really one of the guys, I was much smaller and skinny but I did notice that there seems to be a look or an atitude that a guy has around other guys, like when I am out in public, I present as male still :(  and if I do not give the look or show the atitude then the other guys will pick up on that and then take more notice of you, try to relax and show your guy confidence, show them that you are a guy and if they question you stay firm, kind but firm and look them in the eyes, most people can not look other people in the eyes for long, if you look away first then the other guy feels like he won.  This is just my way of telling what I observed and I hope it helps you.
I hear your story and others like you and here I am wishing the opisite of what you want, I want to learn to be more like a girl and I want to be part of the girls, anyway from someone who grew up as a guy, it is just my point of view.  Aloha from Hawaii.

Jennie
ho'omo'o kau Pu'uwai= Follow your heart
Na hona ho'opili= Live life happy
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Ryno

Well, the place I work is a customer service retail job with a high employee turn over... Most people my age have worked there a year or less, and no one really knows my plan of only being there for a few months. So that kind of rules out those first two speculations :P But thanks, I didn't really consider tight social groups.

Jordanna - I'm sure you're right. Haha. I just can't stand the feeling I have right now, I kind of feel unsettled. I do battle anxiety and depression though, so it's a feeling I'm pretty used to.

Jennie - I'm probably just not used to interacting with biological men... We both seem to have the same problem :P I'd love to help shed some insight on female bonding if you're ever interested in hearing it, can't guarantee I'll be able to help any but I can try :P

Maybe what I need is Male Bonding 101 lol.
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Arch

If there's a lot of turnover, don't expect much bonding. Unless they were already friends, people don't tend to get too invested in other people at high-turnover jobs. At least, that has been my experience.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Nero

Quote from: Ryan J on July 28, 2011, 10:27:09 PM

I also have very little experience interacting with other guys, as one of the guys. I mean, in high school, I chilled with a lot of guys and they pretty much saw me as one of them, but I guess it's different when they actually perceive you as a guy.


I think this is something that can kind of throw us off at first as ftms because a lot of us are used to being more comfortable with guys. But the interactions do change a bit once you're actually seen as male. Guys seem both more friendly and more guarded when you first meet them. But then, people just act differently in general. Girls are both nicer and more guarded now as well.

QuotePeople greet me friendly enough but they seem ... cautious around me, sort of uncomfortable.

Are you passing consistently? Are you still getting 'ma'amed'? People acted pretty strange during my androgynous period.



Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Lucian

Yeah it's definitely different hangin out with guys as a guy.  I tend to get insecure about myself and feel as if I'm seen as not as good as them or the "runt" of the group because I'm not a bio-male like them.  This isn't the case really, but I feel that way because I'm not used to being with guys perceived/accepted fully as one and the interactions are different.  I suppose we all just have to feel it out and get comfortable over time through experience.  As for the voice stuff, confidence is key.  I unfortunately don't have any stories or experiences to share that might be helpful as I haven't really held a job yet.
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kyril

Quote from: Forum Admin on July 29, 2011, 11:18:06 AM
I think this is something that can kind of throw us off at first as ftms because a lot of us are used to being more comfortable with guys. But the interactions do change a bit once you're actually seen as male. Guys seem both more friendly and more guarded when you first meet them. But then, people just act differently in general. Girls are both nicer and more guarded now as well.
Yeah, it's the complete opposite of my experience - I always felt alien among women, but took to male bonding like a fish to water.

That said, here's Male Bonding 101:
1. Humor.
a) Make fun of them. Seriously. Say stuff that would be downright mean if you said it to a girl. Then laugh. It's expected.
b) Make fun of yourself. Play along with the stuff they say to you. Make fun of the stuff about yourself that you're insecure about. That's how they get to know you.
c) Tell jokes and funny stories. Preferably in moderately bad taste, but not too offensive (definitely avoid anything that smells of racism, and anything else that bothers your personal conscience).

2. Doing stuff.
a) Find your common interests by periodically mentioning that you're doing something you like to do on the weekend/after work (whether or not you actually plan to do it). When you find someone who likes doing the same stuff, talk about it with them, and eventually see if they want to join you to do it together.
b) Break rules together. Every workplace has a bunch of silly rules that don't really matter. Bond over shared illicit behaviour, preferably totally harmless stuff.
c) Help each other get the tedious/unpleasant parts of your job done faster. Break up the monotony with humour and/or talking about doing other stuff and/or venting.

3. Having each other's back.
a) When you see them treated unfairly by management/another employee, call it out publicly. When a customer is rude to them, let them know you noticed and you think the person is an ->-bleeped-<-.
b) When they need something (have to go care for a sick parent/kid, stayed up too late and have a hangover, whatever) cover for them. Then the next time you need something, ask them to do the same for you.
c) Listen to them vent when they're pissed off. You don't have to say a whole lot, but take their side. Try to come up with ways to solve their problem; if you can't, come up with some vaguely aggressive/violent description of what you'd like to do to the person causing the problem.
d) Vent when you're pissed off. Accept whatever clumsily-expressed sympathy/advice is provided. Don't expect the warm fuzzy supportiveness you get from girls.


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Dana_H

As someone who still has to pass as male most of the time due to an untenable employment situation (which I am working on changing), I'd have to say that Kyril is right on the money; that pretty much sums up platonic male relationships.

Male bonding is like riding a fine line between solidarity and aggression.  If you err too much on the side of empathy/sympathy, you risk making other men uncomfortable with your presence (homophobia is still alive and well in many places, unfortunately); if you err too much on the side of aggression or keep to yourself too much, you risk being labeled as an A***ole and either avoided or "put in your place" by the resident tough guy. Fortunately, there is quite a bit of middle ground to play with; Kyril's list runs right through that middle ground.

I've had 40+ years of socialization this way and it STILL feels alien much of the time;  I often have to remind myself what is appropriate male behavior from moment to moment.  Hmmm...maybe I should write down my internal checklist sometime; could be illuminating.  :)
Call me Dana. Call me Cait. Call me Kat. Just don't call me late for dinner.
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Arch

Funny, I never really had problems hanging out with men before transition. I was out as transgender for years before I went back in the closet, so my male friends knew, and they didn't treat me like a woman--or not like a typical woman, anyway; things ARE different now, but not as different as they seem to be for most of you guys. I think a lot of it has to do with the grad school mentality at my school--fairly progressive and queer-friendly.

But not as progressive with the women, actually. Even at school, women were always the ones who were appalled that I cut off my family ("that's so sad!") or puzzled that I didn't like babies ("what, you don't want to hold him?") or taken aback that I got into insult wars with men ("I can't believe you just said that!").
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Nero

Quote from: kyril on July 29, 2011, 03:18:41 PM
Yeah, it's the complete opposite of my experience - I always felt alien among women, but took to male bonding like a fish to water.



My point was that if you were always more comfortable around guys than girls pre-transition, male to male interactions change a bit. At least initially. Once you get to know each other more, not as much. But then everybody reacts a little differently to me now, especially girls.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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