Androgyne or FTM?

[Lorien]

I'm physically female, but for as long as I can think I've felt uncomfortable with my female body. I hated going through puberty and getting breasts and periods, and I mourned the fact that my voice didn't get deeper.

I yearn to have a more masculine body – my dysphoria is pretty bad - but at the same time I'm attracted to beautiful things. I find male clothes boring. I often dress extravagantly, sometimes in the gothic lolita style.

If I had been born with a male body, I'd probably crossdress frequently and might even present as a woman in public on occasion. I'd be that very feminine man that cherishes his female side, and I'd most likely be comparatively content. For some reason I don't think I'd have as many problems with this if my body were different. Don't ask me why I think that. I just know that it would be the case, without a doubt.

Sometimes I feel like I'm a man trapped in a female body. Sometimes I just feel trapped.

I never refer to myself using female pronouns or call myself a woman. If I did that, I'd feel like a liar. Male pronouns seem to fit better, they are more bearable, but at the same time I have the feeling that they don't describe me completely either.

There was a time when I was convinced that I was transsexual. I found out that transsexuals exist when I was 12, and I never stopped thinking about it (I'm in my twenties now). I still think that I'm some kind of transsexual frequently and want to eventually transition and take steps to make my body less feminine. I don't want breasts. I don't want a vagina. Life as it is now has become a source of great depression for me.

But when I look at the FTMs I know, I don't see anybody like me. They have short hair for the most part. They wear men's clothes. They often reject everything that's even remotely feminine and try to masculinize their appearance as much as possible.

I'm not like that. If there are no FTMs like me, what does that make me? I like the female aspects of my personality. I just don't want a female body. Can you be an androgyne and still feel the need to take hormones and have surgery? On the other hand, can you be a FTM and still be feminine? Can you be a FTM and a crossdresser?

Is there anybody like me – and why do I feel such a need to label myself? Why can't I be content with the realization that I want to, that I need to transition and look feminine at the same time, that this is simply who I am? Why do I worry so much about whether I'm a somewhat atypical FTM or androgynous or something else altogether?

[Pica Pica]

Can you be an androgyne and still feel the need to take hormones and have surgery? On the other hand, can you be a FTM and still be feminine? Can you be a FTM and a crossdresser?

Both are possible and I can think of examples of both.

The real question is when you stand with men, do you feel 'I am one of these?' 
Where do you identify yourself, Male, Female or none-of-the above?
Which has very little to do with with clothes or fondness for froux froux.

[Lorien]

I don't identify as a woman. I know without a doubt that I'm not female. Even as a child I would tell everybody that listened that I was not a girl. I've never called myself a ,,she". When I put on a dress, I feel more like a man in drag. Sometimes I'm even worried about being found out even though my body is female – which is weird, I guess.

I identify more as a man. When I dream, I see myself as a man, and it always saddens me when I wake up. When I'm in the company of men, I have more of a sense of belonging, although I don't get some of the stereotypically male things.

I'm convinced that I should have been born physically male, and I when I transition, I will go all the way. I can't imagine only taking hormones, but keeping my breasts or only having top surgery or not having bottom surgery. The need to have a male body is just so deeply ingrained in my being.

Personality-wise I don't think I'm 100% male though. I guess it's more like a 70% / 30% thing, if that makes sense? 70% male, 30% ... well, not female, but something other than male? There's just that small part of me that isn't male, that refuses to fit into the traditional binary system, that absolutely loves giving people mixed signals.

When my parents call me their daughter, I always get mad or depressed. Being called a man doesn't hurt as much. In fact being recognized as a man often makes me happy. On the internet I'm exclusively male, but I present myself as a rather feminine man, and I have to admit it feels very liberating. When I do that, I just feel like me. IRL I bind my chest, my hair's on the short side (although not as short as most men's), and when I wear women's clothes I'm always sad that all people see is a young woman in a dress.

[Pica Pica]

Sounds like you are an ftm then, by your own admission - just one with a feminine side.

[espo]

There are cis males who would fit the 70% / 30% ratio as well at least they appear that way in their mannerisms.
Whether they accept their feminine side or not I don't know BUT it isn't that uncommon a thing.
You're a unique individual, which sounds awesome but can be hard to live out. My advice is to not think there's a norm for the FtM that you have to fit.

[caseyy]

I'm transitioning from female to male, and having most if not all of the procedures done (T, top, bottom) but I identify as androgyne because I feel like it fits me better. To an outsider, since I behave like most "masculine" men, I'll appear binary, but there are lots of different ways to exist!

Here are some very femme FTMs who sometimes wear women's clothes and/or are more feminine:

http://www.femmeftm.tumblr.com

[valkyrie256]

Espo, Pica Pica, and other posters are right. Just because you identify as male, does not mean you have to be masculine. There are masculine women, and feminine men. I've had similar issues, albeit from the opposite direction. And while for now I identify as androgyne, I have occasional moment where I feel like that I might be a slightly masculine woman.

One piece of advice I was given by a fellow board member is, don't force a label on yourself. These things take time. But, from I'm reading, I agree with the assessment that you are a feminine FtM. However, don't take my word as gospel; we can help, but no one knows you better that yourself.



Vi

[MarinaM]

Well,  you sound ftm, but what's in a name? I would assign myself a similar 70/30 ratio,  but I freakin' love being a girl / hate being treated like a man +  have dysphoria. I am a mtf that plays here when the binary places get too ordinary, or unbearable. Just handle what you have to, and if you fall somewhere in the middle, consider yourself better for it

[Lorien]

I suppose there really isn't a norm for FtM that you have to fit, but it sometimes feels that way. I've been told by some FtMs that I need to cut my hair into a traditional men's style and wear obviously male clothes if I want to transition and that I can't be FtM and have a weakness for beautiful, frilly dresses which led to my having serious self doubts. On the other hand, what about cis men that are feminine? Are they not men? It sometimes seems to me that in order to be recognized as FtM you have to look and act more masculine than cis men.

In the end I think I am more FtM than androgyne, but I just feel a little out of place in the FtM community every once in a while. People that identify as androgyne seem to have more of an understanding for this. I'm rather comfortable around them. The binary system and all those conservative views on what's masculine and what's feminine and what men are supposed to be like get on my nerves sometimes.

I should probably stop worrying about labels for a bit though and just do what I need to do in order to feel happy and stop being depressed.

And Caseyy, that link's interesting! I had no idea that something like that existed!

[caseyy]

You're right, there are some FTMs who encourage high standards of 'masculine' behaviour but not all transmen feel that way and your gender identity is certainly not defined by societal standards for gendered behaviour.

[Alex37]

I don't have any advice to add; all the previous posters said it well.  I just want to let you know that I could relate to practically everything you said.  It seemed like you read my mind!  I've been going back and forth with how to identify too, and the best advice I've gotten is to relax and let everything sort itself out. 

I will reiterate that you can be a femme guy.  There are lots of them!  Personally, I felt a lot better when I came to terms with the fact that since being trans doesn't make me any less of a man (if I am one, which I think I probably am) then I can do anything and be anyway that a man can be, including be effeminate.  I definitely have a masculine side, but I love mini skirts and find men's clothes and hair styles boring, I love looking pretty, and I enjoy cute things a lot.  I can also be really sweet and sensitive.  Yet, I never felt like a girl.  It always seemed wrong when I was grouped with them.  It also frustrated me that when I was around guys they didn't accept me as one of them after puberty.  I used to imagine myself as an adult man when I was a kid, and I knew there was something horribly wrong with the idea that I was going to be a woman.  It just seemed all wrong, and it really hurt.

My body doesn't feel like it's really my body either, though I seem to have less dysphoria than most surrounding my lack of facial hair and small size.  My dad's small, my brother is small; they were runners and wrestlers, I was a runner and a gymnast, and being small just never bothered me.  However, I absolutely should not have a female reproductive system, and my moobs are highly annoying.  Regardless of what I end up identifying as, I'm sure I'll have those removed.  Anyway, my advice is to not worry about the labels so much, and just figure out what you need to do to be comfortable with your own body.  Being patient is difficult, but it will all make sense in time.  And I really need to take my own advice

[Taka]

i've always envied men who look good in dresses. it's a weird thing to say for someone with a female body that looks even more desirable in dresses, but.. it's not like i asked to get a body like this. i'd say being ftm and feminine, or even genderqueer, isn't bad at all. i might love to see you male bodied in a gothic lolita dress

don't listen too much to the binary extremists, you sound like you already know who you are and all you need to do is go through with what's needed for you to be happy about yourself. there are lots of labels to choose from, and nothing says you can choose only one, just like nothing says you have to choose any of them

[vandalrivera]

we sound a lot like each other. i pass as male for the most part and enjoy it. i also have been going by male pronouns lately, which feels OK. it doesn't feel OMG GREAT or anything, but after talking to my ftm friends, i've heard it takes a while to use all male pronouns, just because we've been going by she/her for so long. i also like to crossdress and would like to retain that 1% female part of me.
I agree with Taka too. don't worry about it too much. sounds like you have it under control.

[Kareil]

I'm like you, too.  And I'm just as confused.

[ativan]

Gender has no meaning or value if it is counterfeit.
Counterfeit gender is just a game, a trick, an amusement,
an act, a fraud, a deception, an imitation, artificial, bogus.

Be yourself, not a gender.
Being yourself is effortless and genuine.
Being yourself is REAL, not counterfeit.
In being yourself, in behaving in a manner which is natural to you,
whatever gender you are becomes self-evident.

-Emerald

I think I'll always have that bit of advice from Emerald on my mind.
Don't over think yourself and box you into a corner.
Be yourself. Let yourself as a person, bloom.

Ativan

[CynicRecluse]

Lorien, I totally identify with you!
I was born female. But I feel male. But I still like having long hair and wearing makeup.
I have an alternative style so male clothes are awesome for me though- they tend to look more unisex.
I can say I roughly really don't pass as male right now but I feel the same as you.
I long to be more masculine and like to use male pronouns for myself. You're not alone!
Anyone that says being ftm means you can't be a little feminine needs to stfu. Point black.

[Kinkly]

Be who you are It doesn't really matter if you Identify as F2M or as Androgyne or as both or something else altogether by being true to who you are it doesn't matter which label you use for yourself if you like use both labels.  the only thing about labels that is good in my experance is that it can be useful in helping you find others with the same label so using F2M around other f2m and androgyne around other androgynes may work for you.  good luck finding you path on this gender journey of yours

[rensie]

Anyone that says being ftm means you can't be a little feminine needs to stfu. Point black.

I agree with that, no one should tell another person they can't be who they are.
btw, you look totally awesome but scary mothertrucker if I met you in person (hope that doesnt offend you )