Why am I expected to support a community that doesn't support me?

[xXRebeccaXx]

(Im not aying that ALL LGB people are like this, but far too many are.)

I am pressured, almost obligated to seem to have to support many GLB people. Their causes, their political struggles (gay marriage, employment protection, etc etc) their fight for quality and tolerance, and other things. I'm expected to be on their side and be educated about their culture. Like not using demeaning slurs like d***, f**, etc. I'm expected to be tolerant, accepting, open minded, diversified, non homophobic, and be a more enlightened being when it comes to acknowledging the fact that there is diversity in this world in general, but apparently even more so in the GLB community. I'M expected to not make any judgements to any sub-group within the GLB community. I'm expected to support the gay men, masculine or feminine..I'm expected to support all the lesbians, I'm expected to understand and support bisexuality. I'm expected to accept the drag queens. ALL BECAUSE I'm the "T" in GLBT.

However..the GLB community doesn't see the need to worry about "those people" (trans people). They don't see the need to educate themselves about OUR issues, or OUR struggles. They don't understand WHY it's not ok to dismiss us in your fights for employment protection or marriage rights. They don't see why or care about using slurs about us, like "->-bleeped-<-", "->-bleeped-<-", "chick with a d***" or using the proper pronouns to refer to us. They don't take the time to understand the difference between sex and gender. They don't want to see us as equals..for example the gay identified transman, or the lesbian identified transwoman. We're not seen as "real people" to some GLB's in the dating world. We're not seen as just as deserving of respect, love, intimacy, or anything else most people are deserving of. We're seen by some as "betraying" them when we don't out ourselves to every person we may be interested in on a first meeting. Like revealing every personal detail about your past medical history is something everyone should do.

Can someone please explain this double standard to me? Because I don't get it.

[MarinaM]

As a BT, I have the following view :

Why not get on board with an enormous,  successful group that is  willing to fight for your rights? Alot of people suck, doesn't matter what their identity is,  you seem to have had run ins with a few less than cool people. Solidarity, if only for political reasons, that's my take, I suppose.

[JungianZoe]

Stop reading user comments on Queerty.  That's a good start.

[Pinkfluff]

Alot of people suck

Pretty much what I was going to say.

[cindianna_jones]

It was gay and lesbian people who helped me survive in my darkest hours. They took me in, became my friends, and helped me with food. I shall forever be in their debt.

They had never met someone like me before. They were as curious about me as I was about them. I wish that I could put into words just how much they mean to me. Okay... now I'm starting to cry as I remember just how wonderful those people were. (Cindi grabs a tissue)

The Gay and Lesbian communites have done wonderful things for us.  Shoot, we aren't even a community. If you are feeling uncomfortable pressure, then don't do it. But it is always a good idea to help stand up for your neighbor when his/her rights are trampled. It doesn't matter which group they belong to.

Cindi

[melissa42013]

Why support a group that "does not support me"........

Because I believe in the basic right of mankind.
Because they are suffering at the hands of unjust prejudice.
Because they need our help.
Because understanding someone different from us leads to them understanding you.
Because I act on what I believe is right with no expectation that it will be repaid to me.
Because this country is ready for them to have their rights acknowledged and this will lead to a broader global acceptance of gays and lesbians.
Because they are people too, and they are suffering a great injustice.
Because I do believe in the basic good of mankind, that most people are kind, but that the few who are bullies drown out the compassionate.
Because it is the right thing to do.

Until TG community is willing to agree on a common goal we will not have any power. Until we stop going into hiding and actively work to make a change we need the support of a much larger group. Now is the time for them to get their rights, and we should support them even if they do not support us. I do not believe this is true. Sure there are going to bigots and small minded people that make themselves feel bigger by taking down someone they feel is below them. But here is the key point. IF they did not support us then why did the leaders of this movement even include the T in the LGBT? They why did they recently add Jennifer Finney Boyland to their board to represent trans issues. Then why did the director of the organization meet with her to let her know how much they want to support trans issues? They why when the DOMA debate was at it's peak they refused to decouple trans rights from Gay and Lesbian rights even though it makes it a much harder case to push.

Most of us took years to understand and accept ourselves. Much of this is due to the lack of information available to us at the time and the negative images that were available. For me this was also a time that I was hearing the adults at my school, soccer practice, and church talking about how God has sent Aids as a plague to wipe out "the ->-bleeped-<-ots".

So yes, now is the time for them to gain acceptance and for us to help them EVEN IF IT MEANS THAT WE ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THESE BASIC RIGHTS. Even if it means that we have to wait our turn. I don't think we will ultimately be forgotten by these groups. I don't think we will be excluded from any legislation promoting their rights. I just don't think most people give us much of a thought. We transition and then we disappear our of a desire to live a "normal" life, a desire to avoid prejudice and fear. If a stand had been made on these issues when I was a kid, I would have had a much easier life, but it was not.

So this come down to the core of my problems with not supporting the Gays and Lesbians. It is the right thing to do regardless of what their organizations do for us. I support cancer research and care even though I do not have cancer, even though no one in my family has cancer, even though there is no history of cancer in my family....... because it is the right thing to do.

We need to do the right thing to make the world a better place for them. And I believe that our time will come sooner because of their fight.

So now anyone who is reading this ask yourself....... What have you done for the TG cause?
I have my own plan of advocacy action. What is yours?

[tekla]

Community is what's going on in the real world, real people meeting face to face.  It's the people who are really there.  If you only come at this through the web you're not getting, seeing, or understanding the real deal.

[Annah]

LGB is like any other human community. You've got good people and you've got bad ones. You even have people in the trans community the same way.....even towards trans people (i.e., CD are a lower standard, non ops aren't real trans, older trans are doing it as a fetish and are fake...Ive seen a lot of it here and there on trans sites....the ones i listed was just this week on these forums. Interesting thing is, they will say these over the internet but they usually do not have the gall to do it face to face).

Try not to focus on the bad ones in the community but realize there are many many wonderful LGB people out there.

My best friends are lesbians and gays. Those who really been there for me when I was transitioning was a lot of LGB people.

When one focuses on the negatives then one begins to stereotype those people, thus you fall into the same trap in which you are condemning them of.

[Ann Onymous]

Why do *I* support gay and lesbian causes?  Because THAT is where I fall in the spectrum. 

I identify a hell of a lot more with the gay and lesbian community than anyplace else.  Quite frankly, I don't see that the 'T' fits into the alphabet soup...once someone has had their surgery, they are generally going to fall into one of two categories- they are gay/lesbian or they are straight.  Yeah there are some outliers who fit the bi category, but in the real world, I simply never see that many who claim ownership of a bisexual identity...

[Annah]

i am tech pansexual but I identify as Bisexual.

While my workplace knows nothing of my trans history they do know I am bisexual.

[Joeyboo~ :3]

Because I believe in the basic right of mankind.

That I agree with, and i think everyone else's comment is about that.
But I don't think you're understanding Julia.
It sounds like she wrote this because shes hurt and is misunderstood by some of her friends who are LGB and dont use the right pronouns or use offensive slurs..
I have the same issue, and i really think that the "T" in LGBT is invisible to most LGB peoples concerns. (or atleast to these specific people I'M talking about)
It can be a hurtful double standard.

[xXRebeccaXx]

That I agree with, and i think everyone else's comment is about that.
But I don't think you're understanding Julia.
It sounds like she wrote this because shes hurt and is misunderstood by some of her friends who are LGB and dont use the right pronouns or use offensive slurs..
I have the same issue, and i really think that the "T" in LGBT is invisible to most LGB peoples concerns. (or atleast to these specific people I'M talking about)
It can be a hurtful double standard.

I AM hurting, yes.

[tekla]

My best friends are lesbians and gays

My best friends are people, with books running a close second.  And I don't really care about anyone's sexuality as long as they are not asking to involve me in it.  People change, I've seen it, so that stuff can be fluid sometimes (and other times it's forged in steel).  As long as everything is consensual, no children are involved and no animals were hurt - I'm fine with it.  Even if I really might not want to hear about it.

That being said, having spent most of my life in academia, theater and San Francisco California Bay Area I've met lots of gays and lesbians.  As someone said above they are people and some are nice, and there are a few who suck (not in the good way).  I've always (and this is going back to 1980 (that's 30 years, 3 decades for you MLA types) when I started going out to bars and such - before that I only went to outdoor places, I love to hike) found gay bars, and to a lesser degree lesbian bars to be a nice place.  I've never been hassled, I've never been made to feel unwanted a bit outside, sure - you walk into a leather bar in a pink sundress, -  always treated well, and the spaces themselves are usually first rate (though sometimes the music and me don't get along).   Have I met total ->-bleeped-<-s?  In bars?  Of course.  And that's going to happen no matter what kind of bar you walk into.

But of the 'Trans' events (lectures, support groups, fun social stuff, political stuff and all that meeting stuff) easily 80% of it was in areas/buildings/centers that were LGBT, and make no doubt about it, mostly G in terms of who put up the money and got them going and mostly L in terms of who runs them day to day (there's a nice traditional gender division).

But in and of itself, being gay or lesbian does not make you any more enlightened, interested or sympathetic than being a Dominatrix or being into water sports does.

And yes, the T is often under-represented.  With stealth, and 'now that I've done X I'm not trans anymore" how could they not be?

[Pinkfluff]

Quite frankly, I don't see that the 'T' fits into the alphabet soup...once someone has had their surgery, they are generally going to fall into one of two categories- they are gay/lesbian or they are straight.

I honestly don't think that it fits either, but the medical industry is still rather backward in it's understanding of this condition (though I'm sure media portrayals don't help with that). However, a person's sexual orientation is not related to whether they are allowed medical treatment or not.

[Ann Onymous]

I honestly don't think that it fits either, but the medical industry is still rather backward in it's understanding of this condition (though I'm sure media portrayals don't help with that). However, a person's sexual orientation is not related to whether they are allowed medical treatment or not.

At least THAT much has changed since I saw my first shrink...back then, if you were not going to be Suzy Heterosexual, then they would tell you that you must not really be transsexual.  Being lesbian-identified cost me a few years of the surgery track...I should have had everything done before I turned 20 but instead it took finding the work-arounds until the dinosaurs faded from the picture. 

[xXRebeccaXx]

At least THAT much has changed since I saw my first shrink...back then, if you were not going to be Suzy Heterosexual, then they would tell you that you must not really be transsexual.  Being lesbian-identified cost me a few years of the surgery track...I should have had everything done before I turned 20 but instead it took finding the work-arounds until the dinosaurs faded from the picture.

But most specialists would assume that you ARE hetero.

[LifeInNeon]

You can't ask a self-centered question about why social justice is important and expect a satisfying answer.

[Ann Onymous]

But most specialists would assume that you ARE hetero.

I would call a 'specialist' who makes a presumption like that to be inept (especially in Houston in the mid-1980's near Montrose)...and that holds true no matter whether one is presenting with a transsexual condition or for any other counseling concern.  But we digress...

[Pinkfluff]

At least THAT much has changed since I saw my first shrink...back then, if you were not going to be Suzy Heterosexual, then they would tell you that you must not really be transsexual.  Being lesbian-identified cost me a few years of the surgery track...I should have had everything done before I turned 20 but instead it took finding the work-arounds until the dinosaurs faded from the picture.

Yeah I have heard of that happening, and I guess I got a bit lucky in that my therapist didn't mind me being lesbian. I mainly meant though that people tend to fall into the categories you mentioned (straight or gay, maybe a few bi) regardless of whether or not they have had surgery, or any treatment for that matter.

But most specialists would assume that you ARE hetero.

Most of the population is hetero though, so, absent any indication to the contrary, it is natural to assume that someone is. The problem is when people give you grief about after you correct them.

[Ann Onymous]

Yeah I have heard of that happening, and I guess I got a bit lucky in that my therapist didn't mind me being lesbian. I mainly meant though that people tend to fall into the categories you mentioned (straight or gay, maybe a few bi) regardless of whether or not they have had surgery, or any treatment for that matter.

By the mid 90's, it seemed as though there had been a change in thought amongst the so-called 'gender therapists.'  So the kids today definitely have it easier than I did back when I first sought to go through the hoops that were put in place...eventually finding a lesbian therapist also helped me get the train back on the tracks...I found her circa 1989. 

Most of the population is hetero though, so, absent any indication to the contrary, it is natural to assume that someone is. The problem is when people give you grief about after you correct them.

BUT...the so-called specialists that were in the Houston area at the time were dealing with a heavy gay and lesbian clientele, so to presume heterosexuality was contrary to the reality of their client population.  Further, a treatment provider should NEVER presume anything about their client.  Either the client voluntarily discloses or the treatment provider seeks to draw out relevant information, and as it relates to transsexuality, the sexual orientation of the client is relevant to the totality of the counseling since it speaks to roles post-operatively.