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Dating

Started by envie, August 11, 2011, 11:42:14 PM

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gantz

im not the card type of person but i guess i can give him something that really know hed like i guess. im worried thought that if its an object he might burn it once he finds out hahaha.

hey karen, i didnt quite get the last part. was that a question?

if it is, i dont want to hurt him but i have to deceive him so that he would stay for as long as possible, thats just what my head is telling me right now and how i also feel.
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justmeinoz

Do you really have to decieve him?  If you are into each other as much as it sounds, do you think he would leave if you outed yourself?

Karen.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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Rabbit

Quote from: envie on August 31, 2011, 12:12:20 AM
But I am rather at this point curious about your gender Identity and sexual orientation.
Are you just gay man living as a drag ?
Non of this makes sense to me buy the way, except that some man I bisexual.

Oh, I like guys (but have a tiny curiosity about women).... not really sure what label to use :P

Gay? Straight? I don't care :) I like guys... and I want to find a guy that likes me (all of me). Just so happens there are a lot of those types who hang out on gay dating sites (a lot of times there are bi guys who like certain things about men... but also really like women... which is what i am! scoreee!)

Eventually I won't look like a "normal girl" and I won't look like a "normal guy". I idenfity as "trans" (even though I am probably more towards female mentally, I just realize a lot of me is still male physically). So, again, doesn't make much difference what someone calls me (or they call themselves), if I am attracted to them and they are attracted to me, that is a great start :D
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gantz

karen, i just dont want to risk it... again. i like him too much, flat out. besides, i remember my doctor telling me... coz i expressed this constant issue with me with her. she said, why am i telling them, i shouldnt tell them. she said im a woman and i should only tell them when its like a position where you must, like youre gonna do 'it'. if he loves me already, he will be able to handle it by then.

love does not build up on the first day, lust maybe but lets be real here.

ive been getting other peoples opinion about this too. "straight" men. it appears those who are capable of accepting, WILL only consider if there IS an existing strong relationship between the two. if its early on theyd break up easily. the reasoning is there IS a good reason already to 'give it a chance'. just being blunt here, there is already an emotional investment in their part as well, and what you can give them is already established and clear. where as if its too early, youve just no bargaining chips available

ive decided, ill just do what i can now until he find out for himself. then he can decide if all the affection and care that i gave is less compared to the 'thing' deal then ill just accept it obviously what he thinks. atleast i consider it as a fair fight this time. vs the typical, not even being able to show waht you can do you know and just rejected flat out.

add

in truth i am being chewed by guilt. yesterday while we were lying down i ended up crying and he was asking me and i cant tell him what is going on. i just told him i cant tell him, but if he knew he would leave me. im just glad he didnt push to find out what i meant. look its not like i love this guy ok... i just sound like it maybe alright but i dont think i do ok. i just dont want him to go, i just dont want this to stop.
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envie

OK Rabbit, now I understand where you are coming from. Theoretically all you said makes a lot of sense for me but practically and emotionally I couldn't go for a gay man.
Bi men is different story, I already said I wouldn't mind dating that kind of man.

@gantz
I think there is a moment where the partner should be informed about the situation and that would be before he finds out for himself in my opinion. I think it is good to get to know each other and wait a little but the man should not get too far attached emotionally to you and you to him. It is at some point rather too hurtful to learn about the trans issue sooo late. Also you yourself can get so deeply attached to the guy that in case he runs off you hurt terribly too. So the right moment, not too early and not too late, is a challenge to find. The longer you wait the more it might feel to him as a deception. That is at least how I see it
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envie

Quote from: ChloeDharma on August 19, 2011, 07:42:49 PM
I did date a man a few years ago that i met on another site. After a while when i realised he was serious about dating and that i liked him too i decided to have "the talk". That went reasonably ok except he was rather shocked and thought i was winding him up at first. He got back to me though saying he didn't care and that i was still the same person. So, we dated and then it came to spending a night together.

this approach really resonates with me,

thanks again ChloeDharma for sharing your experience!
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gantz

im gonna be sleeping with him tomorrow. i feel well worried, yes i still havent told him. im so uncertain, my sense of logic tells me to delay telling him - i think i cn get away with a few more months, my conscience tells me to tell him tomorrow. the people i talk to including you all here have mixed opinions of telling and not telling. my experience tells me he will leave instantly the moment i tell him. i feel im starting to need him. ive been with many women before, i never felt this way before in any of them. but, then again, it might feel teh same with any other guy in the future too right?

what am i to do? i am so lost. i cant take this anymore. i cant focus at work, its tough coz my work is 100% mental. I dont want ot think anymore. yeah envie im already attached... i cant help it

ill just... let things flow by. and just enjoy the moment i have with him. however itll be... itll just be, if ill be hurt ill risk it.

besides we're still just friends last i recall... right?

envie, good luck with your dating matter
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envie

thanks gantz!

Yeah my next date is not gonna happen soon I am afraid. I kept talking to my guy and trying to be supportive friend to him just how Karen suggested.
This was all good but then he shared some details with me that made me realize he is kind of light years away from being able to date again and left me kind of in a shock too.
Apparently he and his ex were talking about getting married, conceiving a child and all that had been happening when she came out as lesbian!
So she left him for a woman but they are still friends.
This is almost exactly my story with my ex only in the mirror. So basically he is in a position just like my ex is and I am sort of like his ex-girlfriend only rather interested in him as oppose to leaving him.
He is just devastated as his dreams of fatherhood and marriage have been shattered and he is in his late 30's so there is a bit of midlife crisis going too.
He also expressed appreciation for my support but he rather prefers to process things with only very few close friends of his.
So basically I have to take back seat and it is not just disappointing but it really hurts. I think it hurts me even more because he is so kind to me
and not a jerk so I sort of long for him even more.

Quote from: gantz on September 02, 2011, 11:25:04 PM
im gonna be sleeping with him tomorrow.
I really hope things are going to go well for you. One thing that just occurred to me is that he might actually already know or at least guess but he doesn't mind.
It seems like you were pretty close with each other already few times and you told him there was something you needed to tell him but you said he'd leave you immediately if you were to tell him.
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justmeinoz

Sounds like your guy could do with all the support he can get.  Even if you are there as an emergency support if no-one else is available.
I  can empathise with him. It's a bit of a shock when your wife leaves you for her best friend, if mine wanted a woman she could have waited :laugh: so it must be love. We get on ok now too.
If you do end up together permanently, there is always the options of adoption or fostering.  There are lots of kids out there who need a loving family.

Karen.


"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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envie

Yes Karen,

that is exactly where I left it at, I am his emergency support and he knows it.

Quote from: justmeinoz on September 03, 2011, 02:29:04 AM
If you do end up together permanently, there is always the options of adoption or fostering. There are lots of kids out there who need a loving family.

It is funny you should say this...I have a 2 and half year old daughter. My ex and I were planning all this together prior to my transition but then the unexpected happened. She was not attracted to me anymore and I started having feelings for men so now we are just sisters to each other.
So I technically already do have that "adoptive" child for him. ;)
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gantz

well im back in one piece. im still shaking really from ... i dont really know what happend since yesterday. ive never felt like that before ever. oh my god oh mydof. in the morning during the calm it jsut hit me real bad, this conscience thing and i couldnt take it anymore. i told him ive really just fallen for him and i told him the truth about me. yeah, after... alll of 'that' he still think i was not what i was. then i just started to cry. h edidnt tell me to leave like what i was expecting you know. he hugged me instead and told me not to say sorry... but he said he had to think about it, i think he was really shocked. but i still feel he really cared for me for the duration of my stay... i just really cant lose this you know! i dont want to lose this, i just know i really want this person. i cant let him go. i already love him. i just want to give him his space for now to think. i guess its like too much to take in one day. i dont know whats going on anymore. my head hurts. i miss him already. sorry, i know i sound like a 14 year old, but i just cant help it anymore
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envie

Oh gantz,

I think you are very brave and I think you did just the right thing. He also seems to be really nice guy! So he reacted as any normal human being would when faced with unforeseen circumstances. He needs some time to think about it and he did not change his attitude towards you just because of who you are or for being honest. I so hope you guys work it out after all what has happened.
Buy the way, I feel like a 14 year old half of the time so there is now at least 2 of us, but I bet there are plenty more here!

warm hugs to you gantz!
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gantz

#32
thank you envie. i feel uncomfortable today, i hate waiting moments. i dont know if hed give me a favorable response or not. i just feel im at a disadvantage in these moments where i am not physically with him, and peoples imagination gets a bit too imaginative and lose sight of 'you'. but you know, i felt more free on the last moments of intimacy i had with him after telling him, i guess i was no longer worried about evading certain angles, positions touches where it can give me away.

so i guess i can just babble on what i think has worked for me, not just necessarily with the dating but them just not noticing, for those who dont want to be caught.

a lot of concern among us which is a big root of our insecurity are boobs. coz we see these naturals(im sorry ok i dont know what to call them) with those huge things, especially here in Los angeles where people are 'bigger' than usual so they have boobs that are just as big - makes you wonder what kind of woman am i without those. but you know, not all have big boobs and believe it or not men can be accepting of that fact actually - some actually find it hot - they see it as a ... young look, some ok. but point being, if you are thin and you have small ones, they can be forgiving. but PS, small not flat literally like paper alright. but if we're on hormones i think there would be something there right i mean i only had it for 4 months and i have enough for someone to feel i have something. ps, im a bit thin. small boobs = small frame = forgivable, but just based on my interactions with men ok.

i think the face is a big factor in things. one issue is the jaw. ive seen some here with squarish jaws but i still can see the woman - theres a lot of women out there with that kind of jaw. its the whole face thats judged i believe, its how they all come together - including the expressions and smiles and the look in your eyes. dont feel so insecure about it, it can show in your expressions. if youve good points that are feminine, they say to work on them and put them a bit more 'forward' and make the rest less noticable or direct to these. my cheeks are bad, but my eyes are nice. oh yeah ive noticed, usually our cheeks are sunk right, especially when we're thin. but when we smile - the push fills it up and makes em look girly - smiling helps and it makes em more comfortable too. and of course i guess smile like a girl ahahahahha and laugh like one right dont go over and end up like the joker eh. you can tell a guy 'come and get me' with just your face, right?

obviously the voice is important. but ive noticed, they still dont mind if you have a bit of coarseness left. as long as the 'deepness' resides it can be enough. make em focus on what you are saying, redirect them away from how you are saying them. an dif youre talking about things that no man would care about or think, it makes it harder for them to not think you are a woman. this simple nonsense line for example, 'i bought some heels yesterday', it sounds so stupid but once that hits their brains it will raise a female flag for you. avoid topics that hint of male interest - but sometimes its ok too since it gives them a homely we can be good friends too feeling but excessive amounts wont be to your advantage here I think.

add{
hair, if youre out of things you can change, get a girly hair. mine is upto my butt. that alone, people tell me, its like unimaginable that im not a woman with this kind of hair. take care of your hair and look around you, what do the women out there wear.
}

woman - its all in a persons head, and people can be made to believe just about anything.

i think if you hit a small snag, you should try to divert his attention to himself. like make him talk about himself, make him think just divert him but not too far. then recover and slowly start hitting him again.

to those of us who lived as men before... wont you agree we have an advantage here somewhat even against some women out there? we know what guys like and what turns em on... sure everyone can be different but come on right. the look that you drooled for, the kiss that you just so wanted, the things you wanted to hear, the atmosphere, the feeling ... that thing that just makes you want to jump her no matter where you are or whos looking... this time, trying to give em instead can help, big time.

well thats just some... hey you can be forgiving right, im new to all this so just correct me if i said something silly. hey, i can use the info you know.

ok im sorry i am just talking nonsense here to get my mind off things, but idiotically its making me think of my problems even more. what can i say im... i feel so uneasy right now. im so worried. my chest hurts so bad. i just want to go to bed again and just fall asleep. im trying to prep myself for an unpleasant reply... i just know itll hit me reaaaaally hard if things dont go well. oh my god.

last one would be, give in to the feeling. but you know... that one can be addicting.

add:
i got a reply earlier. i wento to him to hear what he has to say. told me what i expected anyway, i mean come on - when you tell theres just on eresponse right? yeah i know some of you would say something against that but cut me some slack today ok. he told me we can only be friends. well, im new to the hormones, but the emotional ->-bleeped-<- is working on me full load it seems so i guess you can imagine how i feel at this very minute. he was the first i loved. ill cut that there before i say something that will ban me. just use your imagination eh. well ahahaaha
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envie

I am so sorry gantz, but keep your chin up even though it is heart breaking!
Did you ask him to keep your trans identity to himself and not share with friends or something?

hugs!
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gantz

why ask that envie?...

i cant think anymore i mean yes i didnt even think of that earlier. well... hahahaha as always its never really hard to get them interested initially. its always about that fkn part... so you call it the 'talk' here it seems. no matter how pretty you can be or sweet or loving or how well you go together even if youre like the dream chick of this guy its not enough unless you have that thing and that you werent born with it. im sorry im not really thinking straight right now.

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envie

To me the transition and the trans identity is kind of a private thing.
I would want to have some control over who knows is it and who doesn't.

For instance if you stay friends and meet some time with some other friends of his, you might not want the rest of people to look at you weirdly.

On the other hand are you really sure it is all over with him? May be he just needs a little more time to realize you are not all the sudden a different person.
I don't know but if I were you I'd give him some space and time but keep myself present and available for him. But thats just me I don't give up so fast anything.

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gantz

#36
well its ok we dont really share teh same group of friends somewhat so...

i dont know envie. i really tried everything i can think of on that last day to convince him and he was just erally solid about it. sometimes you just really can tell its... over.

hahahah god, i felt so bad i wanted to kill myself seriously. but i feel better now so i guess i can say that now.

maybe i should give up on men. hahahahaha. theyre so easy to catch but to keep em in your hands its so.... i dont know. the constant feeling too that they might run off to those natural born *..................... like that ->-bleeped-<-n bitch friend of his uhm. ok im just stressed out so.

you know seriously, ive never dated a trans before. i dont know the opportunity never just came up and no one has taken any interest in me too. not that i have ever met any. maybe i should give that a try. not for fun or diversion i mean, but who know it might work right? know of any from LA hahahahahaha?

ADD: sept 8
Im falling apart badly after I lost chris. I miss him so badly. I end up going just like grabbing anyone to talk to and meet, not even out of interest but just to divert my attention. It hurts badly still, I had a breakdown at work yesterday - nothing violent just me falling apart crying on my desk. I dont think I have the confidence anymore to believe any guy can take me seriously, more so love me.

Ive decided. If I do recover, Ill try to go at it again. But this time i really will never tell, if the last time wasnt enough Ill be so much more, just whatever i can do i will. If I have to drag this for as long as I can possibly do, I will. If the tilting point really is when teh guy is so madly inlove with you already, then so be it even if he'd be also at the point of wanting to kill me for not telling. Its a fair risk I believe, some things you just cant have through normal means. Hell, can I be a complete woman by merely wishing for it and hoping for luck, im like risking getting cancer by taking these meds already and cheating my way through the natural flow of nature

for a while i didnt even consider SRS coz i still had some doubts on what i was, but this is not for this reason - to grab men. after being with a guy, im really adamant now that it is what i want. im just really out of the women game now i dont have interest in em really anymore so it would be pointless to stay this way. besides... more clothing options right. ill ask my doc next time i see him which is less than a month away on how i can prepare for it someday
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