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When it comes to alleviating your GID …What’s more important ?

Started by Anatta, September 08, 2011, 03:41:19 PM

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When it comes to alleviating your GID ...What's more important ?

To be recognised and treated as my psycho-sexual gender in public...
7 (58.3%)
Or to just have genital/breast surgery ...
2 (16.7%)
Unsure = Too hard basket
0 (0%)
None of the above
3 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Anatta


Kia Ora Folks,

::) If you could have only one thing to help alleviate your GID. what would you choose ?

To be on HRT and for society to accept and treat you as your preferred gender – but still have your birth sex "equipment" ? {F2Ms = B and Vs - M2Fs = P and Ts}

Or to have either or both surgeries but not reach society's G.I.R.L [Gender Identity Recognition Level] or M.A.N [Masculinity Acknowledged Nationwide]  feeling whole but not recognised as such...

What I'm trying to find out is how important is the sense of recognition by society for one's contentment compared to ones sense of wholeness from having  ones  birth sex identifiers removed...

I know that some members will want to say both,[which is understandable] however for this hypothetical question please try to identify what you would value the most, if it came down to a choice of either option...

Internal or external acceptance ? So to speak ...

::) Remember some members of the cis-society accept trans-people "unconditionally" even if ones birth sex identifiers remain part of you...

Also please remember it's about what "you" would personally prefer...Not what others should or shouldn't do...Thanks for your participation...

Metta Zenda  :)   
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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FairyGirl

it's a loaded question from the beginning because it is never a matter of "either/or".  We transition because we want to function in society, physically and socially, as the sex we are in our brains.  To say we had to choose between one or the other doesn't make sense and would be no cure (ie, alleviating GID) at all.  It's like saying you have to take 2 drugs to cure your cancer but you can only choose one of them.  I transitioned to be healed of a dreadful birth condition, not just because I wanted to live some pretense (was doing that already), and not because I was solely enamored of having tits and a vagina on my body (I think they call that  ->-bleeped-<-).

My answer is also None Of The Above.  ;)
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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Anatta

Quote from: FairyGirl on September 08, 2011, 04:25:11 PM
it's a loaded question from the beginning because it is never a matter of "either/or".  We transition because we want to function in society, physically and socially, as the sex we are in our brains.  To say we had to choose between one or the other doesn't make sense and would be no cure (ie, alleviating GID) at all.  It's like saying you have to take 2 drugs to cure your cancer but you can only choose one of them.I transitioned to be healed of a dreadful birth condition, not just because I wanted to live some pretense (was doing that already), and not because I was solely enamored of having tits and a vagina on my body (I think they call that  ->-bleeped-<-).

My answer is also None Of The Above.  ;)

Kia Ora Fairy,

"However for this hypothetical question please try to identify what you would value the most, if it came down to a choice of either option!"...

Some people can think a little outside the square...When it comes to "what if" questions...

::) However you chose to respond by firing the first shot so to speak...  ;) ;D

But I respect your line of thought...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Anatta

Quote from: Valeriedances on September 08, 2011, 03:59:40 PM
How about an option of neither? Being binary identified, there is a probability I would not transition. I would just suffer.

Kia Ora Val,

::) I've added "None of the above"

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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FairyGirl

No "shots" intended dear, just giving you an honest opinion that some "hypothetical questions" by their nature of not being based in reality are instead based on false premises or root assumptions and therefore meaningless in the context of whatever it is the questioner is trying to prove.  Either/or questions are very much black/white and "in the square".  There are always other options, and thanks for adding the other one. :)
Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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Nygeel

For myself, I'm growing more comfortable with my body. My biggest problems I've had with my transition has been the social aspects. I haven't been able to do the basics (ex: use the right bathroom) since I started my transition many years ago. In general my social discomfort brings me the biggest problems.

Edit to add: I'm not masculine. I also have had my secondary sex characteristics change dramatically. My sex is male but I was assigned female at birth.
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Anatta

Quote from: FairyGirl on September 08, 2011, 05:21:00 PM
No "shots" intended dear, just giving you an honest opinion that some "hypothetical questions" by their nature of not being based in reality are instead based on false premises or root assumptions and therefore meaningless in the context of whatever it is the questioner is trying to prove.  Either/or questions are very much black/white and "in the square".  There are always other options, and thanks for adding the other one. :)

Kia Ora Fairy,

::) Thanks for clearing up the misunderstanding on my part... :icon_bunch:

And you're welcome re: the additional option...
 

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Farm Boy

I actually brought this up with my therapist the last time I saw her, and it's not a hard question for me at all.  It's annoying to be addressed with female terms and such, but if I could only pick one I would choose surgery over social recognition/HRT.  My chest bothers me much more than anything else, so I'd prefer to get surgery so I could feel right with myself.  The way other people address me is secondary.
Started T - Sept. 19, 2012
Top surgery - Jan. 16, 2017
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RhinoP

Honestly, I think this forum is way too caught up on solving the "appearance vs. body" issue. The facts are that getting facial plastic surgery or other facial improvements is in no scientific or theorized manner different from altering the breasts or genitalia. It is simply no different, there is no science that proves there's a soul hiding in your face that will be damaged if a surgeon's scalpel touches it or hormones change it, or that if you want facial changes more than body changes, then you must be a "fake trans". It's silly, because after a number of years of living and not waking up one morning with a vagina, you start to think about other changes as well, weighing in the real world, weighing in social experience and education. Psychiatry is so much more complex than you can "only be true if you only want a vag"; there's so many psychological conditions and preferences that govern what a patient wants based on what he/she believes and has experienced, both in life and in spirituality.

With that being said, social recognition to me is having people judge me for being who I am, not just by gender, but by personality as well. When you are a soft, happy, bright, cuddly female, but you have the face of a brutish, masculine, grumpy man, potential partners and even friends find it very, very hard to accept your personality, no matter if that soft personality is coming from a gay man (what I used to identify as) or a woman (what I identify as now). With me personally, I like to cuddle, flirt, and touch, both with friends and potential partners, yet everyone literally "jumps" away from me when I try to cuddle. Yet no one (including these same friends and partners that I have specifically been around) jumps away from the pretty girls or cute boys, the people who automatically do have a facial air of cleanliness and health. It's something that probably bothers me more than any single thing I can pinpoint.

Does that mean I don't want vaginal surgery? It just means that, especially with my disassociative disorder concerning my genitalia area (I have never had a sexual urge to put my penis in anything, nor having someone put their penis in me in any sort of way), aquiring a vagina is pretty useless for me other than closing the relationship pictures. I do not value my own genitalia, male or female, it is not a sexual organ for me. And wanting a vagina for non-sexual purposes really makes about as much common sense as wanting to chop of your own leg. Really, if these books want to be all discriminatory toward my own goals, I'll flat out say how much sense it makes. I would never, ever do something because it'd just "make me more confident" - I have to have many scientific and beneficial reasons for doing anything in my life, I am not a spiritual person who walks paths based on confidence or faith, instead of reality. To be quite honest, not following a beneficial reality is pretty much classified as insanity.

I believe all Transpeople do what they do because they know the real world benefits of being the opposite sex of their choice, yet no one has the balls to stand up and say "Yes, I do this because I think being a girl is better than being a boy in so many ways, both socially, sexually, and in congruency to my given personality. Deal." or vice versa. Everyone wants to dance around and blame it on a disorder that stems from the person originally wanting a different genitalia and absolutely nothing else, but I just don't believe that's the root nor cause. I for one definately believe it's a big sociostatus-sexual-self image thing, a triple kill of emotions that have thousands of bizarre combinations, and especially on this forum, I'd say the people who value genitalia above absolutely all else make up about 15%, if that much. Yet, what, 85% of us here are on hormones?

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FairyGirl

Quote from: RhinoP on September 09, 2011, 01:51:48 AMwanting a vagina for non-sexual purposes really makes about as much common sense as wanting to chop of your own leg.

This may very well be subjectively true for you, but for me and many others it makes perfect "common" sense.  Having sex with my vagina was not even on the list of reasons I had surgery to obtain one.   Rather, I had surgery in order to align my body sex with my brain sex.  I never "identified" as female, I am female, and I had sex reassignment surgery to bring my body, mind, and spirit into congruence and so find healing for all of them.  Amazingly, it worked.  I have no need or desire whatsoever to ever change my physical sex again ,and am perfectly happy integrated into society as a female in a female body.  Yes, I do have sex with my vagina and it is an undeniably incredible experience,  but I would have had the surgery anyway even if it meant never having sex or orgasms again, which is very much one of the risks we take.  No amount of sex would have ever cured me; having surgery however, brought me a lasting and permanent healing that can never be taken away from me.


Girls rule, boys drool.
If I keep a green bough in my heart, then the singing bird will come.
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Nero

I agree with others that this isn't really an 'either/or' type thing. I really couldn't have lived without both physical and social aspects of transition. But if I absolutely had to choose, it would be physical aspects. I had to be comfortable in body before I could care what anybody else viewed me as. So, yes my need for wholeness in body comes before society's recognition.
Put simply, if I still had tits and bled from a certain orifice, it wouldn't matter if society saw John Wayne.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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rensie

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Anatta

Quote from: rensie on September 09, 2011, 04:05:39 PM
I'm trying to  heal from the inside out.

Kia Ora Rensie,

::) That's a nice way to put it....

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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