what do they mean about ethinyl estradiol?

[Emily Ray]

I have read online on several, no, many websites that ethinyl estradiol is the most potent form of estrogen. What do they mean by this? These same websites say that 17b estradiol is the strongest form of native estradiol. Does this mean that the cells are more reactive to ethinyl estradiol? I know that it has a longer half life in the body so much small as in a thousand times or more smaller dose is used. There are other reasons why it isn't the most favored drug like increased risk of DVT.

Huggs

Emily

[Renate]

Ethinyl estradiol is an artificial estrogen.
Yes, it is potent because your body doesn't know how to get rid of it.
There are medical contraindications against it.
It is still to be found in some birth control pills but sane people avoid it like the plague.

[Emily Ray]

My Dr won't even give me my estrogen in a shot! She is trying to tell me that I have a steadier level with oral. She must have a low regard for my intelligence because I have read countless studies that show oral administration of E creates a peak 1.5 - 2 hours post does and it falls from there. Injections are on a two week cycle not 24hr. She also refuses to prescribe me a progestin. I would like prometrium because the side effect profile is so much better. I only get 3 hours of sleep anight and I have to take high doses of ambien to achieve that. I read the symptoms of estrogen dominance and I have almost all of them. I have been on E and spiro for 20 months and my bra size hasn't changed in 12 months. I am just tired of knowing what they are doing for me is wrong for me and they won't make the tiniest conssesion to try and help.

[Joanna]

I took ethinyl estradiol for 19 months between the age of 16 and 18.  Back in the mid 90's it was one of few drug types offered to trans women.  It worked a treat and feminized me very well............however try and avoid it if possible.  It made me extremely unwell, nausea, vomiting (daily), muscle cramps, head splitting headaches, fainting and fatigue.  It is potent stuff but comes with high risk.  In the end I had enough and with other reasons I de-transitioned.  I did not realise how unwell I felt until I stopped.

[Emily Ray]

I have been on 17b estradiol for most of the time. I did take Premarin for a month and a half a year ago. Tanner stage wise I am at III.  Size wise I am a small A-cup. When I compare myself to my mother, aunts, sister, cousins and grandmothers I am not even close to what they all have at C-cups or bigger whether they are thin or not. I don't feel that I am reaching my full potential. I know I am not going to be a C-cup but a B-cup would be nice and I think is achievable with the proper HRT. I just set up an appointment with a Dr Deborah Thorp here in minneapolis at a transgender clinic she runs. I am going to bring her all my lab work and ask if she thinks all that can be done is being done.

Huggs

Emily

[Renate]

Your body is brilliant at converting E to T if it is not checked properly.

If your body can convert estrogen to testosterone, it is brilliant and deserves a Nobel prize.
Aromatase is the enzyme that converts testosterone to estradiol.
There is no corresponding mechanism to go the other direction.

[Emily Ray]

I take a generic AA Spiro and I take a pretty high dose of it. Maybe what I need is to add finesteride/duresteride to the mix. Maybe I need to stop taking generics. I have to say that I had such good early growth I thought I would be in good shape at two years. Now, I just want to cry and fear that I will never be where I should have been. I am going to a new Dr and can wait until I see her in 21 days.

[pebbles]

right okay different chemicals have different binding affinities to receptor sites Estrogenic compounds bind to the estrogen receptors and induce intercellular changes.

so...  if 17beta Estradiol binds with 100% affinity its what comes out of ovaries and aromatase enzyme Where as other estrogenic compounds binds with only 30% affinity and phytoestrogens bind with like 3-8% affinity.

Ethnyl-Estrogens are not found in the human body hence the whole "Not native" and come from horses I think they bind with higher-than-natural levels and compaired to Estradiol bind with 120% affinity.

This can be done with any Ligand-Receptor interaction. and is frequently relivent in understanding immunological research and vaccine development as the immune system is mediated through many such interactions.

A similar thing occurs with testosersone.
Regular testosterone has 100% binding affinity Di-hydro-Testosersone however has 300% affinity.

[Emily Ray]

So does this mean that it won't easily be released in favor of a less reactive esrogen like estrone or estriol and phytoestrogens we are exposed to from our food or enviornment?

[pebbles]

So does this mean that it won't easily be released in favor of a less reactive esrogen like estrone or estriol and phytoestrogens we are exposed to from our food or enviornment?

No different estrogens don't necessarily compete or dilute each others effects. The exact reason for that is abit complicated but basically SHBG (Sex hormone binding globluin) regulating the amount of free sex hormone in the blood for your body to absorb.
If anything the body would absorb the stronger binding substrate first.

[Emily Ray]

I think I am begining to understand a little bit. SHBG regulates the "free" bio reactive hormones avilable. Affinity has a relationship to the dissociation constant because ethinyl estradiol affinity is higher a smaller percentage of the ligand binding area needs to be bound to the hormone to have maximum reaction in the cell thus it is more potent and anything bound to the other areas are not important in celluar function

Huggs

Emily