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Will "Occupy Wall Street" Stick?

Started by Julie Marie, October 07, 2011, 04:48:34 AM

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Julie Marie

Quote from: Amazon D on October 25, 2011, 06:36:54 PM
One Of The Biggest Reasons People Are Mad Enough To Protest In One Eye-Opening Clip

That video should be featured at the next big Tea Party convention.

Quote from: Joelene9 on October 26, 2011, 01:45:12 AM
Yes, the President will be in town for his student loan debt speech

New Rule: If, after five years of trying, a graduate can't get a job in the field he or she earned a degree, the remaining debt from the school loan will be transferred to the school.  I'll call it the Education Lemon Law.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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gennee

Quote from: Michelle. on October 25, 2011, 11:19:45 PM
The winter weather will shut them down. We will have to wait and see if they start up again in the Spring.

That could be interesting. You guys could block GOP primary voting places.

I believe that they will be there for the long haul. I remember a protest in a neighborhood I used to live in had a protest which last through most of the winter.
Be who you are.
Make a difference by being a difference.   :)

Blog: www.difecta.blogspot.com
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gennee

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 25, 2011, 05:03:04 PM
This video is at times scary but it tells a tale as to how we got where we are today.




I remember vividly the savings and loan scandal. The brokerage house I worked in  received a bunch of this junk. I took on look and remarked to my colleagues that this is bad. That was in 1988. When I left the 1995 those junk certificates were still sitting in the vaults.
Be who you are.
Make a difference by being a difference.   :)

Blog: www.difecta.blogspot.com
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tekla

When all is said and done, and people who care go back and look at what happened it's going to be seen that the S&L robbery was just a prelude, a trial run if you will, for what happened on Wall Street.  People, all that money did not just disappear.  It went somewhere, and everybody in charge is extremely slow to ask that question, and to really pursue the next logical one - who got it?  Where did all the money from inflating the price of homes (a very deliberate and long-term manipulation) to nearly insane levels, as much as 100% overvaluation in some places, where did that money end up?  When something loses huge sums of money, for the most part, someone else makes that huge sum.  Where did all the money the banks ended up losing flow to?  Did it just evaporate?  The government bailed out these investments by basically buying all of the investments that had become worthless, they spend $1 trillion dollars on worthless paper.  Who sold that paper and made that money in the first place?  Did they know it was worthless (or at least not nearly worth what they were selling it for)?  Did they use faxs, telephone calls and computer services to sell it?  How is that not wire fraud?

Or, how did it come to pass that the cost of a college education increased so rapidly (far in excess of other goods and services) at the exact time that the value of degree itself was becoming more diminished (as was the education behind it)?

Who was responsible for bringing on the cheering section to support home ownership, college degrees, and other kinds of investments, knowing that those investments were losing money, not gaining it?
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Amazon D

Maybe this will wash out some of that money


BOMBSHELL - Massachusetts Supreme Court Rules That Most Foreclosure Sales From Previous 5 Years Are VOID



http://dailybail.com/home/bombshell-massachusetts-supreme-court-rules-that-most-forecl.html
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Julie Marie

Quote from: tekla on October 26, 2011, 03:21:32 PM
Where did all the money from inflating the price of homes (a very deliberate and long-term manipulation) to nearly insane levels, as much as 100% overvaluation in some places, where did that money end up?  When something loses huge sums of money, for the most part, someone else makes that huge sum.  Where did all the money the banks ended up losing flow to? 

Oh, that question has been answered over and over.  The answer is everywhere.  And the answer is it moved from the bottom 95% into the hands of the top 5%.  The higher up you are on the income scale, the higher percentage increase you have seen in you income.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Joelene9

Quote from: gennee on October 26, 2011, 01:36:49 PM

I remember vividly the savings and loan scandal. The brokerage house I worked in  received a bunch of this junk. I took on look and remarked to my colleagues that this is bad. That was in 1988. When I left the 1995 those junk certificates were still sitting in the vaults.
Yes, Genee I do remember the S&L scandal and the government backed Resolution Trust Corp. (RTC) that followed to take care of those junk and other assets.  Not much was done here, no big boys involved paying restitution, no one indicted.  Just a quiet sweeping under the rug, or vault in your case. 
  Joelene
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Amazon D

I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Julie Marie

And maybe once the banks have received enough wood and shingles, they can start building houses to house all the people who they threw out of their homes.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Amazon D

I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Cen

Quote from: Amazon D on October 29, 2011, 05:52:32 AM
pass it on :)

lol, just came here to post this, but you beat me to it by a long shot...  ;D
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Julie Marie

He certainly makes some good points.  I do see similarities between what is going on today and the protests during the Viet Nam war.  And I do think things will continue to escalate.  And if the local authorities act like they did back in the 60's, I see history repeating itself.

Many criticizers of the Viet Nam protests today weren't even alive when it happened.  When I hear their hippie analogies, I just shake my head, knowing they weren't there.  They didn't see good kids get drafted, then sent over to a foreign land, where they had to fight in jungle warfare, something they were woefully unprepared to do.  They didn't see these kids become very different people and didn't hear the stories of using drugs just to make it through the hell they lived every day.  They didn't see soldiers returning home only to be seen as outcasts, degenerates and lowlifes.  No one would hire them.  For some, even their families rejected them.  Being made a soldier ruined their lives.  I saw this and at times I cried.

Now that there is no draft, we see an attitude towards soldiers that is a total 180 from the Viet Nam days.  Soldiers are again heroes, noble warriors, protectors of our freedom.  The protests that happened during the Viet Nam era ushered in the end of the draft and helped make this possible.  Because instead of being able to drag kids out of their lives and throw them into war, our government had to make fighting for this country a noble and honorable calling or they wouldn't have any soldiers to fight their wars.

So when I see soldiers like the sergeant in the video standing up for the average person and being seen as a hero, I'm happy our government has been so instrumental in making them heroes again.  Because if this was the Viet Nam era, that sergeant wouldn't even have been given the time of day. 
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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tekla

Being made a soldier ruined their lives.  I saw this and at times I cried.

This is still true.  We have a whole new generation who have gone through the Mideast, and war messes people up.  They are just doing a much, much better job of hiding the whole thing.  People care a lot less about our wars now that they are not on the damn news every night.  And when the entire cost of the war was not paid by anyone, it was just taken out as a marker with Red China and our kids will have to cash it.  But that's later, why worry now?  Come on, relax.  Thelma and Louise are in the drivers seat and riding shotgun, what could possible go wrong?

And I love it when people start calling out the hippie word.  You do realize that for the most part, they were right?






 

FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Amazon D




so in the last decade we have gone from the extreme right to the middle to hopefully the left and to real freedom of speech but its gonna take all of us to get involved

http://www.facebook.com/groups/190620297682021/  join this Facebook group

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ see the declaration

http://www.petitiononline.com/99declar/petition.html   sign the petition

pass the above to all your friends
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Amazon D

http://occupychi.org/2011/10/07/our-proposed-demands/#more-879

Our PROPOSED Demands
These are the list of proposed demands. They will be up for vote tonight at 7pm @ 500 S Michigan Ave in front of the horse.



1.PASS HR 1489 REINSTATING GLASS-STEAGALL. – A depression era safeguard that separated the commercial lending and investment banking portions of banks. Its repeal in 1999 is considered the major cause of the global financial meltdown of 2008-2009.

2. REPEAL BUSH TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY

3. FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis.

4.OVERTURN CITIZENS UNITED v. US. – A 2010 Supreme Court Decision which ruled that money is speech. Corporations, as legal persons, are now allowed to contribute unlimited amounts of money to campaigns in the exercise of free "speech."

5. PASS THE BUFFET RULE ON FAIR TAXATION, CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOPHOLES, PROHIBIT HIDING FUNDS OFFSHORE.

6. GIVE THE SEC STRICTER REGULATORY POWER, STRENGTHEN THE CONSUMER PROTECTION BUREAU, AND PROVIDE ASSISTANCE FOR OWNERS OF FORECLOSED MORTGAGES WHO WERE VICTIMS OF PREDATORY LENDING.

7.TAKE STEPS TO LIMIT THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATE THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION.

8. ELIMINATE RIGHT OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS OR INDUSTRIES THEY ONCE REGULATED.

9. ELIMINATE CORPORATE PERSONHOOD.

10. INSIST THE FEC STAND UP FOR THE PUBLIC INTEREST IN REGULATING PRIVATE USE OF PUBLIC AIRWAVES to help ensure that political candidates ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME for free at reasonable intervals during campaign season.

11. REFORM CAMPAIGN FINANCE WITH THE PASSAGE OF THE FAIR ELECTIONS NOW ACT (S.750, H.R. 1404).

12. FORGIVE STUDENT DEBT – The same institutions that gave almost $2T in bailouts and then extended $16T of loans at little to no interest for banks can surely afford to forgive the $946B of student debt currently held. Not only does this favor the 99% over the 1%, it has the practical effect of more citizens spending money on actual goods, not paying down interest.



I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Julie Marie

And then use the above to help you decide who you will vote for in the next election.  Maybe apathy wouldn't be so widespread if citizens used their votes as their voice.  Too many adopt attitudes that ultimately result in losing the most powerful tool we have to control this country.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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tekla

re: #4 and 9 - you have to start by nullifying Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, 118 U.S. 394 (1886).  And it should be done, at the very least we should have a serious national conversation about the topic.  To help ease the pain, I'm going to drop corporate taxes, which are either a joke, or just directly passed on to the consumer.

#7 yes, but 8 is problematic, as those people are in fact the experts, knowing more about the topic and facts than just about anyone else.  I'd like to see it slowed somewhat, but I'm not sure how.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Julie Marie

I don't have a problem with #8 because odds are those people were already being enriched by the industries they regulated while holding government regulator positions. 

"Hey, while I hold this office I'll give you guys some breaks so long as when I leave office you guys have a nice job waiting for me."  Yeah, I don't trust 'em.

The whole corporations are people thing has a number of problems.  According to Mitt Romney, corporations are people because the money corporations earn eventually goes to the people.  I think what he was alluding to was since people make up corporations, corporations are people.  If that is the gist of this whole thing, then any organization made up of people is a person too.  And while the capitalists may like the idea of corporations having a say so in our government, the Christians might have a major problem with the Church of Satan having the same rights.

Another problem is duality.  A member of a corporation has their own voice.  And the corporation they are a member of has their own voice.  So each member of a corporation has two voices.  Isn't that double dipping?

Then there's conflict.  The corporate voice may not be expressing the voice a given member wants to be heard.  The typical corporate voice will be focused on corporate profits and little else.  The member voice may only care about profits to the extent it directly effects them.  But they may have plenty of other things they would like their corporate voice to focus on. 

The reality is the corporate voice is determined by the people on top and they use that power to say what they want to be heard and give little or no consideration to what the rest of the members want to be heard.

People are humans and humans are people.  Corporations are not human nor are they people.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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Amazon D

My anarchist friends tell me that, "No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in."

http://theshifthub.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/the-campaign-for-co-operative-socialism-part-i/

http://theshifthub.wordpress.com/2011/10/23/the-campaign-for-co-operative-socialism-part-ii-2/

http://theshifthub.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/the-campaign-for-co-operative-socialism-part-iii/

http://theshifthub.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/the-campaign-for-co-operative-socialism-part-iv/

http://theshifthub.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/the-campaign-for-co-operative-socialism-part-v/


http://www.facebook.com/OffGridPeople#!/pages/The-Shift/109438815833127


The Shift
‎"The challenge of our time is to reclaim our power from the elite. Let's face it, if we had our own local government, local currency, local food production and local energy production, we wouldn't need the elite, their corporations and their phony governments controlled by them. If we stopped working hard to run their systems and, instead, created our own systems, owned and controlled by us, we would be free from them and we would starve their corrupt systems to oblivion."



............................................. ................................................................... ..................
http://theshifthub.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/occupy-movement-must-start-organizing-in-cafes-to-reclaim-the-commons/

Occupy Movement Must Start Organizing in Cafes to Reclaim the Commons
Posted on November 1, 2011 by nguedes| Leave a comment
By Nelson Guedes


Photograph: Tibor Bognar/Corbis
As the occupations continue to grow across the country and around the globe, I wonder what the next step will be and I can't help to ask myself rather the occupiers realize how incredibly powerful they are. For countless years, we have been apart; we have been disconnected from each other. We have forgotten our collective inner power, the power of the People. I believe that if the Occupy Movement wants to succeed, we must find that power within us and manifest that power in our actions. In this article, I touch on the subject of that inner power and how to bring that out and manifest it in the physical plane.

From Demands to Empowerment

There's a reason the status quo wants the Occupy Movement to give them demands. They want us to have demands. Why? Because when we acknowledge that we have demands for them, we are giving away our power to them – we are acknowledging that they have the power and we have no say. When we have demands, we acknowledge that they own us and we must beg them for change. They want us to think that way, so that we don't discover our inner power. The truth is that WE have the power. The only reason the plutocrats are in power is because we have willfully given our power to them in exchange for convenience. This convenience can be found in the energy that powers our houses, the trucks that bring food to our supermarkets and, ultimately, the phony representatives that were supposed to be working for us. It is time to reject their convenience and reclaim our power.

Reclaiming Our Power

The challenge of our time is to reclaim our power from the elite. Let's face it, if we had our own local government, local currency, local food production and local energy production, we wouldn't need the elite, their corporations and their phony governments controlled by them. If we stopped working hard to run their systems and, instead, created our own systems, owned and controlled by us, we would be free from them and we would starve their corrupt systems to oblivion.

In order to achieve this goal of reclaiming our power, there are several requirements we must meet, many which I have already mentioned, but should be studied further in articles to come. For now, we must take one step forward towards our freedom and establish a permanent network that we can use to organize ourselves.

Back to the Traditional Way

In the old days, when the governments ceased to work for the People and instead worked in the interest of the elite, the People would meet in cafes to organize against their common foe. Likewise, we must go back to our roots and organize in our cafes. This time, we must go beyond the old days and, instead of working to bring down an old system, we must build a brand new one, owned and controlled by us.

There are a few reasons why we must start organizing in cafes. First of all, there are more cafes then there are parks and other open public spaces. Organizing in more spaces will increase our visibility and will allow us to connect with more people. Second, a permanent occupation is not required in cafes. We could collaborate with cafe owners to make a visible poster listing all our weekly meetings. Such a poster would be working on our behalf while we go back home and recharge. Third, as more people get exposed to the message, we can then expand on both the frequency of assemblies in cafes and our reach – the number of cafes we hold assemblies at. Fourth, cafes are easier spaces to organize at as they are not exposed to the weather and are unlikely to attract the attention of the police. Finally, organizing in cafes will helps us reshape our culture, refocusing our culture to our communities, our neighbors and community engagement for the sake of our community's health and the future of our children.

In conclusion, it is important to realize that Organizing in Cafes is no substitute for Occupying Public Spaces. Organizing in cafes is just a step forward, an addition to what we are already doing in our occupations. Furthermore, if we want to truly change the way our society works, we must be the change we want to see and transform our society with our actions. We must organize ourselves, creating permanent networks for organized action. By creating such networks, we establish the foundation necessary to create the alternative systems we need to reclaim our power from the elite.

Nelson Guedes spent much of his life researching the connections between several subjects, such as Philosophy, Psychology, Politics and Economics, in an effort to find the root causes of global problems and their solutions. The result is a complete, comprehensive and, yet, simple understanding of how the universe works and how we can collectively work together to maximize the benefits of our collective actions.



Further Reading:

- Coffee and revolution

I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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tekla

Yeah, there was a nice sign at the Occupy Santa Rosa (and really, who wouldn't want to?  right next to the Luther Burbank Gardens and all) camp that read "I'll believe corporations are persons when Texas executes one."  Back in the very different days of the 80s/90s I always had a huge section on SCC v SPR in any history class I taught where it pertained, and in all my AmGov classes because it was so important to the rise of total corporate domination of the American - and eventually the world - economy, and increasingly dictates to the society and culture of everyplace also.

Capitalists should not mind the absence of corporate power in politics because they (the capitalistic people) will still have a massive say in what goes on. 

But we (or at least any of us unfortunate enough to live in some designated 'swing' area) are going to experience such a deluge of political ads all of which come from some nebulous source where the funding is hazy and no one will really know who is funding what, in the next election.  It's going to be massive and almost brutal.  We'll see what people say after that. 
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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