Will "Occupy Wall Street" Stick?

[Michelle.]

Oh, but it is relavant!

For those who desire socialism. Declare yourselves to be neo-loyalists and flee to a Commonwealth nation.

The Brits' are seemingly open to the idea.

BTW, American "Liberalism" requires something to be angry about.

[MarinaM]

Oh, but it is relavant!

For those who desire socialism. Declare yourselves to be neo-loyalists and flee to a Commonwealth nation.

The Brits' are seemingly open to the idea.

BTW, American "Liberalism" requires something to be angry about.

I think it's funny, liberals and conservatives are fighting differing ideas of big government. On the one hand, liberals don't want big corporations running the show, and on the other conservatives don't want government interfering with a free market. Both ideas taken to extremes fail, we know this from experience.

Every pundit I've ever heard of built their careers with a backbone of dissidence. They're all unpleasant to listen to, every single one of them. Poisonous.

I don't desire socialism, but I'm plotting my move now. Shame too, I could have paid tons in taxes or contributed a great deal to an economy I liked. Not sure how long it will take, but I'm seriously considering doing it.

[Julie Marie]

Your sides communism, fascism, and/or socialism has all been tried before and failed; always. It always implodes or stagnates.

Look at the success of the NFL vs MLB.  Last year there was an estimated 100 million people watching the Super Bowl, about 85 million less than the World Series.  "Football is built on an economic model of fairness and opportunity, and baseball is built on a model where the rich almost always win and the poor usually have no chance."  Socialism - 1, Capitalism - 0.  Look at Sweden and Switzerland, both built on socialism.  In the U.S. we think socialism is a dirty word but that's because it has capitalism as it's foundation.  Socialism works, when it's actually applied in the way it is really defined.

There's a ton of money, fortunes to be made right now. Every technological revolution of the Industrial Era has taken place during hard times.

Made by people who worked hard, took risks and reinvested their money into what eventually become OMG, corporations.

Anyone who knows how economies work, when they do, knows you have to have worker bees.  A society with all queen bees will fail.  The tired mantra of those labeling the OWS protesters as whiners, lazy, etc. requires one forgets that everyone can't be an innovator, a business owner or a mulit-millionaire.  If we all worked our butts off to achieve that we'd have a crumbled economy because there would be no one to do the grunt work.

You want to be a wealthy magnate?  Fine.  Just accept the responsibilities that goes with that.  While you get a big slice of the pie, remember if you leave only enough where the rest are starving, don't expect any gratitude form those under you.  Every good manager knows people are the best asset any company has.  Treat them like ->-bleeped-<- and expect a lot of crap to be thrown back at you.

[SandraJane]

For those of you that live in Chicago....

There used to be, and probably still is, at the Museum of Industry and Science, a large exhibit devoted to a man by the name of  R. Buckminister "Bucky" Fuller. Inventor of the Geodesic Dome, Author, Philosopher, Mathematician, Inventor, etc... In his last book, Critical Path, he made an interesting statement, that when FDR created the Social Security Administration he by defacto made the USA a _________ nation...U guessed it...

Socialist

So what else is new under the Sun...  



You show me a capitalist, and I'll show you a bloodsucker. - Malcolm X

[Michelle.]

The differences in season length between baseball and football are too extreme to make an accurate comparison.

If you care for the Nordic Model, than move there.

Regarding pie. Government can only divide a pie into ever smaller pieces, not grow the pie.

BTW, I never said that the US wasn't already a mixed economy. The problem is the movement towards the State controlling more and more of that pie.

The pendulum that is the American electorate is, most likely, swinging back towards the middle this time around. After a huge leftward lurch in '08 followed by an equal push rightward in '10.
I guess that means its time to get used to the idea of Romney as prez.

[SandraJane]

Back to the topic in question...

Any updates from around the country on the MOVEMENT?

SJ

[Michelle.]

US, no. However, Athens is all but in flames. Main story of the day is the demise of Brother Leader, of the Revolution, Khaddaffi. Oh, and Chavez claims to be cancer free. And not surprisingly some freed Palestinians are already making claims of future martyrdom.

I guess the American Movement hasn't advanced far enough yet. That or the Union leaders haven't handed out this weeks marching orders.

It will be interesting if these "activists" start to go after the World Series or football games.
Occupy that, y'all will find out soon how much working America agrees with you.

[mimpi]

Today there has been fighting in Athens between Communist youths and  Anarchists, the march was 30,000 strong on a weekday. Tomorrow there is a massive sit in (march banned) in Piazza del Popolo, Rome by striking metalworkers organised by the CGIL union. The occupation at St Pauls, London continues.

[Michelle.]

Meet some of the 1%, what awful people!

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/113690/40-under-40-fortune-cnnmoney?mod=career-leadership

And you meant communists and anarchists rioted against the police?

[mimpi]

Meet some of the 1%, what awful people!

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/113690/40-under-40-fortune-cnnmoney?mod=career-leadership

And you meant communists and anarchists rioted against the police?

100% male, now there's a surprise...

I meant what I wrote, nothing more.

Enjoy your Empire of Evil while it lasts, all things come to an end, the dustbin of history awaits all empires.

[Joelene9]

Meet some of the 1%, what awful people!

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/113690/40-under-40-fortune-cnnmoney?mod=career-leadership

And you meant communists and anarchists rioted against the police?

They are only the the few of the known ones.  The others that are in the shadows and don't want any publicity are the dangerous ones.  The comments below that article are quite fiery!
  Joelene

[Amazon D]

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

They are moving foreward 

[mimpi]

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

They are moving foreward 

Forward, always forward

Avanti o popolo, alla riscossa!

[Jen61]

Meet some of the 1%, what awful people!

http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/113690/40-under-40-fortune-cnnmoney?mod=career-leadership

And you meant communists and anarchists rioted against the police?

You forgot to add -posthoumusly- Steve Jobs. 

They are my heros, My boss is the CEO of one of the largest defense industry company. The guy is a genious, a true consul of the empire.

Jen61

[Michelle.]

RIP, Steve Jobs.

That list of "ideas" actually has some workable, or at least debatable, ideas contained within.

Term limits and everyonepays at least some tax works for me.

[SandraJane]

What changes could be made for the "99%"?

Speaking of Steve Jobs...What really catapulted Apple was the MAC OS, and how did that happen? Xerox spent hundreds of millions of $'s through the Palo Alto Research Center during the late 60's and into the 70's and 80's, out of it come Ethernet, Small Talk and the Ink Jet Printer. But they made a fatal error...they didn't license their developments, they became public domain. Even worse...they didn't know what to do with what they had! Enter "The Steve's", and for free Apple had the beginnings of the MAC, and they made it proprietary!

Fast forward to the Summer of 1996 and "The Return of Steve Jobs"...by now Apple had licensed the MAC OS and clones were sprouting up like mushrooms....what was the first thing Steve did within a week of returning as Apple CEO? Cancelled the licenses! The MAC OS was proprietary again...the rest is history!

So how did Steve do it? Not by being a nice guy but by being a Tyrant! Rockefeller, H.R. Hunt, Bill Gates, Watson (IBM) and others built great  Empires of Corporate America, and they weren't nice guys either. Sure it provided jobs and economic growth for America, but these people were definitely driven! It still amazes me that Steve was able to sidestep Bill and dreamup the ipod, iphone and ipad, where was everyone else?

But those guys on Wall Street...what did they make? Subprime Mortages, Student Loans, and lots and lots of corporate compensation!
So what's the moral of the story.......



You show me a capitalist, and I'll show you a bloodsucker. - Malcolm X

[Amazon D]

I have more respect for people who produce something than bankers . stockbrokers, who make $ off others peoples money .. however, all businesses need to share their profits with their employees.. so as not to have too much power with the CEO, because it is the workers who do the actal work, but inventors do deserve a fair share for their inventions.

[Julie Marie]

On Forbes Top 100 wealthiest list, something like 30 of them made their billions in hedge funds, leveraged buyouts, banking, investments, brokerages and other non-producing ways.  Four of the top eleven are Waltons - Wal-Mart, which buys junk from China and sells it for a profit, also producing nothing. Outside of technology, there really isn't a lot on that list that made their billions producing something tangible. 

But every one of these billionaires needed the 99% to make them wealthy.  It doesn't take a lot to make people happy, you just have to give them something.  You can't take it all.

When I recall the stories coming out of Silicon Valley in its heyday, I think of all these people who went there, landed a job and became millionaires.  Obviously, their bosses had no problem sharing the wealth.  And when you see how many billionaires come from technology, it becomes apparent you can become a billionaire AND share the wealth with the people who work for you.

Wasn't there some parable about giving something and it coming back to you tenfold?

[MarinaM]

What really catapulted Apple was the MAC OS, and how did that happen? Xerox spent hundreds of millions of $'s through the Palo Alto Research Center during the late 60's and into the 70's and 80's, out of it come Ethernet, Small Talk and the Ink Jet Printer. But they made a fatal error...they didn't license their developments, they became public domain. Even worse...they didn't know what to do with what they had! Enter "The Steve's", and for free Apple had the beginnings of the MAC, and they made it proprietary!

Fast forward to the Summer of 1996 and "The Return of Steve Jobs"...by now Apple had licensed the MAC OS and clones were sprouting up like mushrooms....what was the first thing Steve did within a week of returning as Apple CEO? Cancelled the licenses! The MAC OS was proprietary again...the rest is history!

So how did Steve do it? Not by being a nice guy but by being a Tyrant! Rockefeller, H.R. Hunt, Bill Gates, Watson (IBM) and others built great  Empires of Corporate America, and they weren't nice guys either. Sure it provided jobs and economic growth for America, but these people were definitely driven! It still amazes me that Steve was able to sidestep Bill and dreamup the ipod, iphone and ipad, where was everyone else?

But those guys on Wall Street...what did they make? Subprime Mortages, Student Loans, and lots and lots of corporate compensation!
So what's the moral of the story.......



You show me a capitalist, and I'll show you a bloodsucker. - Malcolm X

Completely appalling.

I WILL NEVER respect the current vehicle for invention and protection. This is why I will give away anything I write for free, if asked. Has doing so made me poor for it? Probably. I can't fathom pulling something from human experience, something that will help others, and locking it down in such a way that others can not run with that idea to make things better. People like these protect greed and the status quo while manipulating people to believe they have done something for posterity. They stand in the way of innovation and growth while parading around shiny shells wrapping old devices designed by the serfs they enslaved with college debt, twisted mortgages, and pretty luring lies about a better future. The dumbest thing they did was provide us an information highway to organize with and call to stand up against them in unity.

"Higher education..." We'll save that for later.

To say I'm jaded is a drastic understatement. This is not a government of the people or for the people. This is a big, tangled, flagging waste. I would like it to be me AND the gov't, not me VS. the gov't, but to call this a functional government is a sick joke. There are people who will NOT leave the country, who have different ideas for a better situation, and they shouldn't have to leave. This place used to hold so much promise, there used to be a dream, and now there seems to be so much stifled potential.

There is no money. All any of us have is debt and debtors. We are an economy built upon false promise. What happens when the feds admit they have no real power without the people they fail to protect from these predators? What will they do when these millions of people who have nothing to lose stop giving them what they need to function? What happens when they can't keep their promises and these reserve notes and electronically tracked balances and property values all become worthless? The government will cave. They certainly can't take anything away at this point. Prison, for some of these millions, would be a welcome alternative to the piling on of debt and uncertainty. All it will take is a vote and these corrupt policy makers can take the rest of their planned political career off to think about the corporate promises they made, the secret empire they thought would never come under question, and the ultimate failure they contributed to.

A different, bigger pie is in order. More people struggling necessitates a different system. The problem won't just go away, even if it moves away.

[MarinaM]

Oh, by the way. I think we're ignoring Italy, the world's seventh largest economy, and it's failure. Gotta dig up some info there.