Wanna Help Form The Transangelical Church?

[Constance]

Sorry, but I'm just a little too busy with my various religious communities to join another.

I regularly attend my local Unitarian Universalist and Congregational (United Church of Christ) churches. At the UU, I just attend. But at the UCC church, I'm on the communion serving team and will be speaking to the congregation during worship one of the Sundays during Advent about being trans at that church.

I regularly sit zazen with my sangha, and in January will be beginning formal discipleship with a zen master.

Then, I've also got my solitary Pagan (Wiccan-Asatru-Eclectic) practice.

Sorry, I'm swamped.

[Julie Marie]

Here's a question:

If a member of your church went to work presenting as himself or herself and was fired for doing so, would your church, church's doctrine and/or church's beliefs support them in a religious discrimination claim?

[Annah]

Here's a question:

If a member of your church went to work presenting as himself or herself and was fired for doing so, would your church, church's doctrine and/or church's beliefs support them in a religious discrimination claim?

They would do as much as they are allowed to under the Federal Guidelines of Separation of Church and State. They would help pay for a good lawyer, help you find a good counsel, provide you financially for any therapy that was required from the incident and to help with living needs until and after the courts made their decision.

The Transangelical Church would be forced under the same Federal legislation of Separation of Church and State as well and would not be directly involved in the legislation process just like any other religious church.

You would also be hard pressed to prove to the courts that your transgender status was a result and is a religious status versus the traditional medical and social status.....even if your church declared trans as a religious rite.

Before establishing the church, you should read Pastor, Church, and Law by Richard Hammar. It was required reading for me. Thicker than three front doors stacked side by side but will answer you every question regarding Federal/state/and local law and legislation with regards to religious institutions.

http://www.amazon.com/Pastor-Church-Law-Richard-Hammar/dp/1880562421/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320072669&sr=1-8

[Amazon D]

I don't go to church. Too many ego's and personalities.

To me
God is Love
and
Love is God
and
we make a resting place in our hearts for Love/God

However, the tax write off thing is tempting but then again thats why we are in so much trouble in this world, with everyone powerful, writing off their taxes and leaving the poor in the dirt.

Where does your church help the poor or those who can't help themselves ??

[Julie Marie]

Annah,

The question was more along the lines with something like this:

A transgender person who is still living and working in their birth gender role comes to the point where he/she can't live like this anymore and needs to transition.  This person goes to work and comes out to the boss.  The boss fires him/her.  There is no federal protection for trans people and in something like 80% of the states there is no state protection for trans people.  The employer is within their legal rights to fire this person on the grounds he/she is trans and exercises those rights.

The trans person wants to file a transgender discrimination claim but can't because he/she lives in a state where there is no trans protection from discrimination. 

However, this person is a member of the Transangelical Church which has explicitly stated in it's list of beliefs the need to be true to the person Our Heavenly Parents created.  In this case, that person happens to be transgender and as such is expected to follow church teachings and transition, if that is who they believe themselves to be.

So this person files a religious discrimination claim against the former employer as there is both federal and state protections for religion.

Of course, all legal fees incurred by this person would be their own responsibility.  The Church, however, would support the religious discrimination claim and provide supporting documentation, if necessary.

I really don't know of any religious organization, at the moment, that would qualify.

[Annah]

Yes, that is what I read out of your earlier comment.

What I am saying is you would be hard pressed to convince a judge or a jury that transsexualism is a religious rite...even if you did signed up through the states for ordination. The simple fact that not every trans will follow your religion would be enough evidence for the Judge to dismiss the case. For example, if you say you are a Christian, then chances are you identify as Christian. If you say you re a Muslim, then you are a Muslim. If you say you are an Atheist then you are an atheist. Not every trans person would be a Transangelican.  And since you developed your doctrine around trans and dressing in their gender identification as a religious expression, many trans people will disagree with that.

A group of people founded the Church of the Jedi 6 years ago. They tried to wear Jedi Robes to work and said it was protected under their religion. The judge dismissed the case and the Jedi remained fired.

[Annah]

Also the church would be built on a very weak foundation too in terms of practical questions under doctrine.

How would you explain to your congregants who has extreme gender dysphoria because of the way they were born that it was ordained through their Gods that this not only was suppose to happen but it is blessed by your creators to have this happen?

[tekla]

How would you explain to your congregants...

Like any other - and every other - church does.  I'd call it either a) a miracle (if it's good), or b) a test from god (if it sucks donkey balls).  Then I would chastise those who didn't agree as having a lack of faith or, being the spawn of Satan, or both.

[Julie Marie]

It was determined a long time ago that the U.S. Government doesn't want to get in the business of deciding what is legit and what isn't when it comes to religion.  The Supreme Court has established some pretty loose ground rules for what is a religion (see the earlier posts).  As long as you satisfy those requirements, you're good to go.

On convincing the congregants, I hear that done all the time.  Kat pretty much nailed it. 

We are who we are.  What's the sense in griping about it?  Why not accept it and make the best of it.  That's the kind of talk that is commonly heard when someone faces a challenge.  And those who make the best of it are usually deemed heroes.

It isn't being trans that is our biggest challenge, it's dealing with an ignorant public who wants to deny us our rights, keep us stuffed in a hole or simply wipe us off the face of the earth.  God is not the problem, people are.

Imagine a world where you're not persecuted for who you are, where you're not pressured to conform and be someone you're not.

"Hey honey!  I was just talking to Johnny and he says he's a girl."
"Hmmm... Maybe he's transgender."
"Yeah, I was thinking the same thing."
"I'll make an appointment with the doctor so we know for sure."
"Great idea honey.  BTW, I have to pick some things up at the store, do you need anything?"

And life goes on.  That's the idea here.  Accept yourself for who you are.  Accept others for who they are.  Harm no one.  And you make this a religion simply by adding spirituality to it, which, when you view it from the perspective that we are the children of our Heavenly Parents and it is our duty to be true to them by being true to ourselves, is easy.

[tekla]

Before establishing the church, you should read Pastor, Church, and Law by Richard Hammar the Federal Tax Code sections on religious exemptions, that'll get ya belivin' you bet your roots Toots.  Whether your personal god is Hairy Thunderer or Cosmic Muffin let me tell you that reading that Code will convince you that the Lord Your God had the old divine hand of guidance on Congress' rod of power they day they wrote that thing. 

Hell by virtue of the State of Iowa I was granted a PhD after almost a decade of stupid intellectual gymnastic tricks, and the same State of Iowa also - because I had a piece of paper that cost me $25 bucks from some mail-order ministry and oil lube shop - granted me the right to marry my friends as a reverend of some church that never really existed, I am the Reverend Dr. Kat (thus paying homage to my two favorite preachers, Reverend Ike and Dr. Gene Scott).  So we could file the papers (with the IRS, you don't have to file anything with god, I checked) and become The First Church of the Presumptuousness Assumption of the Blinding Light anytime we want to.

And because our chief tenent is that god helps those what helps themselves (I'm thinking God Bless the Child by Billy Holiday as the opening hymn) we will always be successful.  And because we believe that in order to become one with the creator and creation you need to either a) listen to a hella lotta John Coltrane, or b) get out to the beach, forest, mountain top, sylvan meadow, or beside the Rivers of Babylon and just shut up and sit there - "No.  Shut up and sit there." - we won't have to worry about guiding anyone's spiritual progress either.

And the congregation there at The First Church of the Presumptuousness Assumption of the Blinding Light will be secure in their knowledge that when the Saint's come marchin' in, their very own Reverend Dr. Kat will NOT be in their number because the lord provided Kat with an eight-hundred mph, $65 million tax-free dollars Gulfstream G650.  Bitches.

[Julie Marie]

Rev. Ike makes me think, "I'm looking for a religion that won't make me feel guilty about myself."

[Annah]

Before establishing the church, you should read Pastor, Church, and Law by Richard Hammar the Federal Tax Code sections on religious exemptions, that'll get ya belivin' you bet your roots Toots. 

The book, Pastor, Church, and Law has the Federal Tax Code section on religious exemptions in there plus the origins and why it was created plus everything else one needs to know to create and operate a church (temple, mosque, coven, etc) within the laws of the United States.

[tekla]

Why ask 'why'?  The obvious answer (and I could get a hundred million people or so to chime in, is: Because the United States of America was divinely ordained by God to be the Shining City on the Hill, and a part of that luster is tax-free religion.

[Julie Marie]

I wonder how many religious figures are part of the 47% of US citizens who don't pay any taxes?

[Annah]

I wonder how many religious figures are part of the 47% of US citizens who don't pay any taxes?

oh, every US religious minister has to pay taxes and I assume the percentage of them not paying taxes is very low since they are involved in organizations that do not have to pay certain taxes. They get audited fairly often.

When I was a minister for 10 years I was audited about 75% of the time. Before and after i claimed pastoral status I had never been audited.

But I am sure there are some who try to get away with it.

[Kreuzfidel]

This is not a smart-alec comment so please make no mistake, I am just a bit confused.  The Heavenly Parents can be whomever we want them to be (Isis and Osiris, Cernunnos and Brighid, etc.)?  And who are the angels and what do they do?

[justmeinoz]

This is beginning to sound like Billy Connelly's movie "The Man Who Sued God."  Connelly sues the Churches, as God's agent, when his fishing boat's loss is ruled an "Act of God" by his insurance company. The only way the Churches can win is by proving the non-existence of God. Very funny movie.

Important question re the Angels, who does their dresses?  Versace, Coco Chanel? they are both in the afterlife. 

Karen. 

[Constance]

I wonder how many religious figures are part of the 47% of US citizens who don't pay any taxes?

My soon-to-be-ex-wife is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and I can assure you she pays taxes.

[Julie Marie]

Important question re the Angels, who does their dresses?  Versace, Coco Chanel? they are both in the afterlife.

We could hire Bruno's mom and her gay friend (from the movie The Dress Code).  They did a great job on Bruno's angel outfit.

As far as the Church, just look at as a religious belief that supports your right to be whoever you are, and that means religious protection in the workplace and elsewhere.  The rest will take care of itself.

[tekla]

We believe that the lord helps them whats helps themselves, so you have to go out and do it first, then god will help you out.