Susan's Place Logo

News:

Please be sure to review The Site terms of service, and rules to live by

Main Menu

Controlling T levels *and* maintaining muscle: spiro vs orchi question

Started by Claire Grey, February 07, 2018, 03:27:44 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Claire Grey

I have a question for those that have navigating transitioning and HRT as a MTF.

I am currently taking spironolactone for blocking testosterone and a estradiol patch.

The spiro causes intense headaches if I get dehydrated. I am drinking way more water but
sometimes I forget -- I don't register being thirsty until I'm waaaay dehydrated. The headaches
are so bad I can't think or work which is scary -- job is kind of intense and I am "on" a lot.

I know I can take Finasteride for a T blocker but it is not as effective.

My doc thinks the headaches are most likely due to Spiro.  If I can't get used to the drug
I am considering full orchiectomy just to be done with the source of T. My question is, does
anyone struggle with staying in shape and maintaining muscle mass post orchi? My understanding
is that the two sources of T in the body are the gonads (testes or ovaries) and adrenal glands.
I want to have some T in my system. Cis women have T--just not as much as men. Working out
and maintaining muscle mass is important to me -- I've never been huge or looked cut but I have
always been very strong and the muscle also helps keep my metabolism up. Anyone care to report
on working out/muscle post orchi?

Thanks!!!
  •  

Northern Star Girl

No orchiectomy for me yet however I have been on Spiro now for several years, I find that I must make a real effort to stay hydrated or I will get headaches, muscle cramps, etc.  Also Spiro can make my blood potassium levels get too high since Spiro is a potassium sparing diuretic in addition to being an androgen (T) blocker . My doctor checks my blood for this at times.
IMHO muscle loss is something that I must deal with... working out and keeping in shape is essential but it is the muscle loss and fat increase and fat re-dustrubution that will give me my womanly shape.
****Help support this website by:
Subscribing !     and/or by    Donating !

❤️❤️❤️  Check out my Personal Blog Threads below
to read more details about me and my life.
  ❤️❤️❤️
             (Click Links below):  [Oldest first]
  Aspiringperson is now Alaskan Danielle    
           I am the Hunted Prey : Danielle's Chronicles    
                  A New Chapter: Alaskan Danielle's Chronicles    
                             Danielle's Continuing Life Adventures
I started HRT March 2015 and
I've been Full-Time since December 2016.
I love living in a small town in Alaska
I am 45 years old and Single

        Email:  --->  alaskandanielle@
                             yahoo.com
  •  

Dena

The member you should look at is Deborah. She is on Spiro but has posted extensively about diet and maintaining muscle mass. It's pretty much a given that testosterone helps build muscles but not everybody reacts the same. I was never muscular before surgery so I didn't really lose anything after surgery. Others who are muscular report a fair loss of muscle mass after starting HRT. You can maintain some muscle mass if you continue to work out however how much will depend on your workout schedule.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
If you are helped by this site, consider leaving a tip in the jar at the bottom of the page or become a subscriber
  •  

Northern Star Girl

@ Dena:  Thanks for you informative reply....   yes, for sure it all varies with the individual but for me I find that I have lost a lot of stamina and can not seem to stick with working out and jogging as I once did.   Once I could do 100 situps and many pushups in one session, but no more.   In the past I have run marathons with fairly good times, I just ran a half marathon last summer and did not do well, but I did finish.   I am lamenting but I am also happy with my body changes.
****Help support this website by:
Subscribing !     and/or by    Donating !

❤️❤️❤️  Check out my Personal Blog Threads below
to read more details about me and my life.
  ❤️❤️❤️
             (Click Links below):  [Oldest first]
  Aspiringperson is now Alaskan Danielle    
           I am the Hunted Prey : Danielle's Chronicles    
                  A New Chapter: Alaskan Danielle's Chronicles    
                             Danielle's Continuing Life Adventures
I started HRT March 2015 and
I've been Full-Time since December 2016.
I love living in a small town in Alaska
I am 45 years old and Single

        Email:  --->  alaskandanielle@
                             yahoo.com
  •  

Deborah

You don't need T to be strong.  You just need to work with heavy weights and do powerlifting style workouts.  The reason is that the increased strength comes from neurological adaptations rather than increased muscle size.

This is my experience.  As of last June I had not lifted any weights since 2013 and even then I only lifted for a few months.  I had also been on HRT for over two years and my T was undetectable.  I had gotten pretty weak.  In June I started powerlifting and have worked out three times a week since then.  As of today my five rep maxes in the three big lifts are:
Back Squat - 262.5 lbs.  started at 130 lbs
Deadlift - 347.5 lbs.  started at 225 lbs
Bench Press - 165 lbs. started at 90 lbs in Aug

All are still steadily improving by a little bit each week.

That's at a bodyweight of about 176 lbs at 5'11".  I have gotten a little bigger but really not by much.  Size change is marginal with a huge strength gain.

Also, in my off days when I run I often do four supersets of:
25 sit-ups
25 flutter kicks
25 push-ups
1 minute plank
And follow up the fourth superset with a five minute headstand.

While in the greater scheme that might not be all that strong it is pretty good considering I have nearly zero T, am 58 years old, and have been working out less than a year. It is also stronger than nearly anyone, men or women, who don't regularly strength train.

As for running, I used to run marathons and in 2012 had my PB with a time of 3:32.  I also ran a 5K in 20 min and a half marathon in 1:35 that year.  So I was fairly fast for an amateur over 50 year old.  My running has slowed considerably on HRT.  Part of that may be that I'm not running nearly as much as before and part may be due to my prioritizing strength training right now.  But I think part is also due to reduced red blood cell count from the HRT.  Even with that though I don't have any problems going out and running six miles a few times a week.  I just do it a little slower than before.  You just need to stay hydrated, eat well, and sleep enough.

There is no doubt that lack of T has an effect on muscle size and probably limits one's top end potential.  However, you can still be stronger than the vast majority of people with consistent and focused heavy training.

If you need extra convincing, there is a  female power lifter, Steffi Cohen, who has legitimately deadlifted over 500 lbs at a bodyweight of 121 lbs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
  •  

Claire Grey

Everyone, @Dena and @Deborah --thank you for the informative replies. This is good information.
I am weighing towards orchi as it it will be one less thing I have to take/manage. Much appreciated!
  •  

Gertrude

One thing T does is help with recovery from workouts. It's the one thing I noticed when I got low t. Just couldn't do the volume of resistance training over the course of a week. At one time I could do 6 days of weights, each body part once a week. After low t, just once a week and it seemed to take me all week to recover. Diet matters as does rest. Fall short in those and results will suffer. Between cervical fusion, low t and dealing with being trans, lifting weights is no longer important to me. I'm 55 and I don't need 19" arms and a 54" chest. That and the heavy ->-bleeped-<- had some negative effects on my body, specifically my spine. So now I walk and soon I'll start a little running. Never could do longer distance stuff, it'll be interesting to see how I do. I don't expect 1 minute laps anymore. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  •  

Deborah

Quote from: Gertrude on February 07, 2018, 11:12:31 PM
I don't expect 1 minute laps anymore. :)
The secret is to run on a shorter track!!!!  🤣



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
  •  

Northern Star Girl

@ Deborah:   LOL.......  so true, that is why I am just doing half marthons.   In the gym I certainly do not expect to compete with the 20 and 30 somethings but I do keep the pressure on myself to do my best.   As I stated previously, my stamina with HRT has seemingly diminished somewhat but I am happy with the results.   
I am impressed with your workout regimen and also the abilities of some of the top women athletes in various fields however I am not disheartened regarding my own lesser abilities at this point.  It is what it is.   
My doctor is happy, my weight is perfect, my BMI is right in the middle of "healthy"... and my blood tests are right on target.  :) :) :)   
****Help support this website by:
Subscribing !     and/or by    Donating !

❤️❤️❤️  Check out my Personal Blog Threads below
to read more details about me and my life.
  ❤️❤️❤️
             (Click Links below):  [Oldest first]
  Aspiringperson is now Alaskan Danielle    
           I am the Hunted Prey : Danielle's Chronicles    
                  A New Chapter: Alaskan Danielle's Chronicles    
                             Danielle's Continuing Life Adventures
I started HRT March 2015 and
I've been Full-Time since December 2016.
I love living in a small town in Alaska
I am 45 years old and Single

        Email:  --->  alaskandanielle@
                             yahoo.com
  •  

Jacqueline

Quote from: Aspiringperson on February 08, 2018, 09:44:58 AM
@ Deborah:   LOL.......  so true, that is why I am just doing half marthons.   In the gym I certainly do not expect to compete with the 20 and 30 somethings but I do keep the pressure on myself to do my best.   As I stated previously, my stamina with HRT has seemingly diminished somewhat but I am happy with the results.   
I am impressed with your workout regimen and also the abilities of some of the top women athletes in various fields however I am not disheartened regarding my own lesser abilities at this point.  It is what it is.   
My doctor is happy, my weight is perfect, my BMI is right in the middle of "healthy"... and my blood tests are right on target.  :) :) :)


Welcome to the site

You jumped right in here and that's great. However, we did not get a chance to send you some links we like to share with newly posting members. It is mostly welcome info, some cautions and the rules of the site.

Things that you should read




Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Jacqui
1st Therapy: February 2015
First Endo visit & HRT StartJanuary 29, 2016
Jacqueline from Joanna July 18, 2017
Full Time June 1, 2018





  •  

Northern Star Girl

@ Jacqueline:   Thanks for your welcome message.... it was nice to find this TG friendly place to share thoughts....
....  and  hopefully I did not violate any rules with my initial postings...  please let me know if I did.
Thanks
****Help support this website by:
Subscribing !     and/or by    Donating !

❤️❤️❤️  Check out my Personal Blog Threads below
to read more details about me and my life.
  ❤️❤️❤️
             (Click Links below):  [Oldest first]
  Aspiringperson is now Alaskan Danielle    
           I am the Hunted Prey : Danielle's Chronicles    
                  A New Chapter: Alaskan Danielle's Chronicles    
                             Danielle's Continuing Life Adventures
I started HRT March 2015 and
I've been Full-Time since December 2016.
I love living in a small town in Alaska
I am 45 years old and Single

        Email:  --->  alaskandanielle@
                             yahoo.com
  •