The non op vs post op stuff has to stop.

[BrokenCode]

This is pretty interesting. I'm still new to the community, so like if I ask questions please don't take offense. I'm just curious about the differences.

So for those who love their penis. If you had a choice to be born with a vagina or a penis, would you choose a penis? 

Like I'm kind of ok with my penis, but I don't love it; And If I had that choice I would choose a vagina. I am totally sketchy when it comes to SRS just because I want more than what the surgery does.

[Michelle.]

I would have preferred to have been born female. Though I could live without SRS.

[Jen-Jen]

This is pretty interesting. I'm still new to the community, so like if I ask questions please don't take offense. I'm just curious about the differences.

So for those who love their penis. If you had a choice to be born with a vagina or a penis, would you choose a penis? 

Like I'm kind of ok with my penis, but I don't love it; And If I had that choice I would choose a vagina. I am totally sketchy when it comes to SRS just because I want more than what the surgery does.

Hey start your own thread! J/k lol! no offense taken, and you can always ask me anything. I feel the same as you I'm kinda ok with mine, but don't love it! I would also choose a vagina if I had a choice, I would rather have been born bio female. I am also sketchy about the Srs surgery, because I also want more than what it offers!

[Steph]

who cares what they think! I know I am a woman! I don't need society to prove it! I don't need to convince anyone but my S.O.! society doesn't need to know what's in my pants or under my skirt. Ok  pre-op if working towards it, non- op if not ok so back to who cares if she or they like their penis? Society only states stupidity! It depends who you ask!

And you called me (and all non /pre-ops too) a freak! what's up with that?

Nope "I" didn't call you a freak.  It would be an interesting project to go out as a woman with a penis and interact in society as a woman, doing all the things a woman does and report back on how you were treated by society.

^agree.

Those getting inside my pants, are the only ones whose business it is what resides inside my pants.

Those includes doctors and SO.

But if women can have penises why would you hide that.  Women with vaginas don't hide that they have vaginas, in fact they flaunt it.

Now here is another question that comes to mind...

I wonder how many non-ops tuck?

Do any of the non-ops here at Susan's tuck?

[Dinky_Di]

If you were post op you would know.

Any reply to this thread by a post op would undoubtedly lead to another locked thread.

That it would and for this reason I am going to hold my tongue, however I do sit here shaking my head and wonder.....

[Jen-Jen]

Nope "I" didn't call you a freak.  It would be an interesting project to go out as a woman with a penis and interact in society as a woman, doing all the things a woman does and report back on how you were treated by society.

But if women can have penises why would you hide that.  Women with vaginas don't hide that they have vaginas, in fact they flaunt it.

Now here is another question that comes to mind...

I wonder how many non-ops tuck?

Do any of the non-ops here at Susan's tuck?

no but your beliefs did! why a project? Us pre-ops do it everyday! Do you want me to say " hi , i' m Jenny and I have a penis" to every one I meet? What you want me to wear nothin but chaps?

When and were do they flauunt it?? I have not seen any cis women flaunting they have vaginas! Are they wearing " I have a vigina"  t-shirts and crotchless pants?  I'm lesbian please tell me where you live I want to go there to see this!

Who cares if they tuck or not?

[Shana A]

I am non-op, both by choice and circumstance. I don't love my genitalia, but I can live with it. If this should ever change, I will do what is necessary.

My identity doesn't invalidate your identity. We should each do what is right for us; CD, drag, full or partial transition, binary, non-binary, surgery or no surgery, etc.

I am in the minority, however I am here to give voice to a lesser chosen path, and to be there for others on this path.

Z

[Steph]

who cares what they think! I know I am a woman! I don't need society to prove it! I don't need to convince anyone but my S.O.! society doesn't need to know what's in my pants or under my skirt. Ok  pre-op if working towards it, non- op if not ok so back to who cares if she or they like their penis? Society only states stupidity! It depends who you ask!

And you called me (and all non /pre-ops too) a freak! what's up with that?

Er I haven't called anyone anything, I have stated what I think society would "think", but I didn't call you anything.

[Lily]

Go out and ask them - complete strangers that is.

My genitals are not generally something I discuss with strangers. It has nothing to do with being trans, it's called not being creepy.

Nope "I" didn't call you a freak.  It would be an interesting project to go out as a woman with a penis and interact in society as a woman, doing all the things a woman does and report back on how you were treated by society.

What situation would I even be in where a stranger would know what my genitals looked like?

Women with vaginas don't hide that they have vaginas, in fact they flaunt it.

They do? Seriously? I talk to girls all day and vaginas are never a subject. I had a 4 hour conversation today about robots though, which was pretty cool.

[Jen-Jen]

That it would and for this reason I am going to hold my tongue, however I do sit here shaking my head and wonder.....

wow really?

[Constance]

I'm not post-op and I'm not non-op. I'm pre-op, and at 5 months HRT my penis is still fully functional.

I live all day every as a woman and that's how I'm treated and addressed at work, at my churches, in restaurants, cafes, libraries, etc.

I intend to have SRS in the future, and the idea of tucking totally squicks me out.

[Mahsa Tezani]

The problem is that your very words are insulting to post-ops and restating them in a thread meant to try and mend fences will not work.

So my being insults you? my existence is an insult to yours? Thats life. Transsexuals already have people who hate them for simply being themselves. Yet, you get surgery and it gives you the right to judge?

I am sure as a post op...I am sure you've been called a "man with a mutilated penis", Ms. Garrison,  etc... and here you are pointing the finger at me for being different. I made a very personal decision not to get any srs...sorry, I don't meet your definition of "woman"... Just like you probably don't meets societys definition of woman.

I hope that put that in perspective for you...cuz that is how it feels for me.

[Steph]

no but your beliefs did! why a project? Us pre-ops do it everyday! Do you want me to say " hi , i' m Jenny and I have a penis" to every one I meet? What you want me to wear nothin but chaps?

When and were do they flauunt it?? I have not seen any cis women flaunting they have vaginas! Are they wearing " I have a vigina"  t-shirts and crotchless pants?  I'm lesbian please tell me where you live I want to go there to see this!

Who cares if they tuck or not?

Where do they flaunt it... hmm you got me there   No wait, wearing swim suits at the beach, or at the pool.

Well a non-op who tucked is kinda contradictory, as folks tuck to imitate a vagina or hide a penis.

[envie]

I used to be indifferent towards my penis. After all I don't walk naked around and for the every day life the secondary sex characteristics  play bigger role in your social life and the way people perceive you.
I enjoyed making love too although the penetration was not my preferred way to do that.

As my transition progressed I find myself being more and more bothered by it. I'd like to have vaginal sex and it drives me crazy that my brain feels that way but I don't have the right equipment to do that.

I think some people are rather prone to work with what they have and try to make the best out of  their non-op situation. Some just manage to find the comfort somewhere along the gender spectrum and not on the far end. Binary gender view is very entrenched in most of todays society and I guess some trans folks conform to it as well. But the latest development is the gender spectrum but it will take time until everyone catches up and accepts it. There is actually a google map all around the world of all the indigenous people who have at least 3 genders . "Modern" religions are the reason for this binary gender view with christianity leading the pack.   

I think some of post-ops believe if non-ops are also being called women that devalues their struggle  having gone through the SRS to be accepted as female. I personally don't loose the respect for the people who went through transition when it was much harder to do so, but I wouldn't mind making it a little easier on the future generations to be accepted for who they say there are instead of pulling their pants down to prove their identity. I find it tragic to minimize people's identity to the content of their underpants

[Jen-Jen]

So my being insults you? my existence is an insult to yours? Thats life. Transsexuals already have people who hate them for simply being themselves. Yet, you get surgery and it gives you the right to judge?

I am sure as a post op...I am sure you've been called a "man with a mutilated penis", Ms. Garrison,  etc... and here you are pointing the finger at me for being different. I made a very personal decision not to get any srs...sorry, I don't meet your definition of "woman"... Just like you probably don't meets societys definition of woman.

I hope that put that in perspective for you...cuz that is how it feels for me.

yup yup what she said!

Where do they flaunt it... hmm you got me there   No wait, wearing swim suits at the beach, or at the pool.

Well a non-op who tucked is kinda contradictory, as folks tuck to imitate a vagina or hide a penis.

uh.. no honey! That's just them going to the beach or pool! That's not flaunting their vaginas! That's what women wear silly!   Yes it makes us pre-ops jelous we can't but it not flaunting vaginas its flaunting hot bodys!

And no a non op that tucks is not contradictory, its not to imitate a vagina its to get a nice flat look! It just looks good in some outfits! Its not hiding the penis, there's no way to do that! Plus men hide their penis that's why they wear pants!

[Constance]

A woman wearing a swimsuit to a pool or beach is no more flaunting hear vagina than a man playing football wearing a jock strap is flaunting his penis. These things are appropriate attire for the situation.

Being pre-op means that I probably won't be going swimming any time soon, but I swim like a rock anyway.

[BrokenCode]

Steph I like your signature "Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back."

[Jen-Jen]

A woman wearing a swimsuit to a pool or beach is no more flaunting hear vagina than a man playing football wearing a jock strap is flaunting his penis. These things are appropriate attire for the situation.

exactly!

[Steph]

So my being insults you? my existence is an insult to yours? Thats life. Transsexuals already have people who hate them for simply being themselves. Yet, you get surgery and it gives you the right to judge?

I never mentioned anyones existence but I do believe I said "Your words"

I am sure as a post op...I am sure you've been called a "man with a mutilated penis", Ms. Garrison,  etc... and here you are pointing the finger at me for being different. I made a very personal decision not to get any srs...sorry, I don't meet your definition of "woman"... Just like you probably don't meets societys definition of woman.

I have never been call a man with a mutilated penis - sorry.

I wasn't pointing a finger at you for being different, I said your words were insulting to post-ops.

I haven't defined a woman someone else has done that.

And sorry but I do meet societies definition of a woman... They allowed me to marry a most wonderful man, it allows me to work in the public education system teaching children of all ages, The men I dated and screwed before I was married saw me as a woman as they climaxed in my vagina, and, and, oh never mind...

I hope that put that in perspective for you...cuz that is how it feels for me.

As many here have already stated... what I think doesn't matter.

[Steph]

But if non-ops like their penis why would they try and hide it.  If a non-op likes their penis and considers themselves to be women and thinks society should accept them as women, why would they hide it by tucking?  Why not be out and proud.  Are they embarrassed by the bulge that would show through a swimsuit, jogging suit for example?