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One for the guys=Why do some lesbians act[and dress] like F2Ms

Started by Anatta, November 07, 2011, 11:14:05 PM

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Anatta

Kia Ora Guys,

::) Just thought I'd start a similar topic here...So you don't feel that you have missed out  ;)

::) I have some lesbian friends who dress, look and behave very masculine, but they have no wish to 'become' men...Why do you think they do this? What makes them tick? Does gender identity/expression play a part ?

I'm under the impression there are similarities with the effeminate gay and the M2F, but for the most part it would seem to be quite a common thing to dress and behave 'manly' for many in the lesbian community...

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Mahsa Tezani

Lesbians  foreign concepts to me.

I won't be replying in this thread...except I just did!!!!
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wheat thins are delicious

IDK why are there some FTMs who act, dress and look very femme?  Why do some cis men act similarly?  Why are there some MTFs who look, act, and dress very masculine? 

Personal preference is why I think it is.  That is how they act naturally, that is how they wish to dress and look.  I don't think gender identity plays a part at all.


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Felix

I'm not super-familiar with the lesbian community, but I have lots and lots of experience with trying to force myself to be a woman and make peace with the way the world treats women.

I'm not sure why some women deviate from the script (any more than I know why some men do), but I remember the struggle I had and still have with understanding what the rules are. There's some kind of unspoken thing about how to act female or male, and a lot of lesbians either instinctively don't fit the mold, or consciously reject it. Same for guys.

That didn't come out near as coherent or insightful as I thought it might. xD
Well. I'm a gay dude who got labeled a lesbian no matter how many times I failed to be attracted to girls, and I can only imagine the frustration of a real woman who is expected to act "womanly" and doesn't want to or disagrees with the definition.

Humans are really fascinating creatures.
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Superrad

I think it's simple as the whole gender identity=/=gender expression. The terms aren't synonymous and I believe we all have "masculine" and "feminine" traits. Everyone chooses to express themselves differently and if someone is doing that in a way that doesn't effect the liberties of another then it's fine. I figure it's just a preference and assuming things is ridiculous. It happens all the time and not just with trans issues. Correlation isn't causation and being a snoop is just weird.

>WHY U HAVE MOHAWK, U WANT TO FEEL BADASS THE 70S ARE OVER LOL.
>I actually like the aesthetic appeal and enjoy the hairstyle, and it suits my current needs.
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dmx

QuoteWhy do some lesbians act[and dress] like F2Ms

Males (transsexual or not) and butch lesbians share the common property of wearing male clothes. They're not dressing/acting like or emulating eachother.

They do it because it comes naturally to them and feels comfortable; the same reason everyone dresses the way they do.

Another thing. A trans male at the beginning of transition may appear similar to a butch lesbian, but the difference is the lesbian feels that is an accurate portrayal of herself. The male in most cases hates his androgynous/feminine qualities and changes them therefore. Back when I looked like a butch lesbian, I was suicidal because of it; it wasn't me. A lesbian, however, would be completely comfortable and does not experience dysphoria.
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AbraCadabra

I knew some 'lesbian(s)' that insisted on STP, and binding --- now to this looks like a trans-man in denial? 'cause as for partners both lesbian & trans-men would insist on female ONLY, yes?

Axelle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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.Jakob.

I think that fashion and gender identity are completely different. If a woman dresses in boyish clothes it's a fashion statement, not a gender statement. Someone may prefer the look, but not the body.
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wheat thins are delicious

Quote from: Axélle on November 07, 2011, 11:53:28 PM
I knew some 'lesbian(s)' that insisted on STP, and binding --- now to this looks like a trans-man in denial? 'cause as for partners both lesbian & trans-men would insist on female ONLY, yes?

Axelle

A gender non-conforming woman does not automatically equal a trans man in denial.


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PixieBoy

Some butch women feel that using STPs and binding makes them feel more comfortable with themselves. They have a gender identity of woman and trans men obviously have a gender identity of man. Some enjoy playing with gender expression and gender boundaries, and may use STPs and packers and such, and others may not enjoy doing that. Some wear their hair short because it's more practical, others do it because it looks good. And so on and so forth. All butch women are different, sorry for painting people with a broad brush here. I hope you get my point, at least.
...that fey-looking freak kid with too many books and too much bodily fat
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Anatta

Kia Ora Guys,

::) Thanks for your responses so far...I realise it can be quite hard for some pre-transition F2Ms when being lumped in with lesbians by society...I guess that's another thing some M2Fs and  F2Ms have in common-being 'mis-identified'...

Metta Zenda :)

"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Sharky

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Anatta

Quote from: Sharky on November 08, 2011, 12:10:48 AM
Because they are in touch with their masculine side.

Kia Ora Sharky,

::) Good answer +1

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Felix

QuoteThe male in most cases hates his androgynous/feminine qualities and changes them therefore.

I love my androgynous and feminine qualities. They are a major and authentic part of who I am. I love being rough and strong and practical, but I also love silliness and empathy, and feathers and rainbows. I love machinery, and androgyny to me is both a beautiful distillation of what it is to be human, and an approximation of science fiction androids and all manner of other cool humanoids. We are fantastic animals, and I struggle always with how to balance my need to pass with my appreciation of our non-masculine aspects.

I recognize, Gifted, that you did say "in most cases." I still had to answer. It's fun to answer.
everybody's house is haunted
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Lee

It seems like men's clothing tends to be more comfortable, cheaper, and more versatile than women's clothing.  I can see why women who identify with a group that doesn't push as much of the "be a perfectly feminine woman or nobody will love you" image would choose to dress that way.  It's definitely not just lesbians though.  I have several (straight, cis) friends who prefer men's clothing, think makeup is ridiculous, and like the ease of short hair.
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beyondlabels

You say that butches behave masculine but they are not disphoryc at all and trans men are and both wear male because they like it but I am afraid is not that simple.
I believe our brain can be more or less masculine. We all know homosexuals often have traits of the opposite gender and all that things are determined by hormones before birth. It's testosterone what makes a woman be lesbian and behave masculine, so I think there's nothing bad in considering being lesbian a masculine trait. Same for gays. That hormones usually make more changes in their brains, so I believe that gender really is a spectrum with all degrees of gray. Sometimes for people that's closer to the middle, life can be really hard. There are people identified as bigender that are always doomed to disphorya no matter what they do. Some spend some time presenting as male and some as female, some present androgynous.
The term "genderqueer" is often used for people that consider themselves androgynous, but it's not so easy as saying: "they are happy being in the middle and that's how they are" No, it can be harder than that. Some of them never feel 100% satisfied with their bodies but they don't feel trans enough to take hormones.
And there are people that find hard to determine their our gender. I follow a youtuber, born female that's having a lot of doubts about being FTM. She is very masculine, as an average man, and she is lesbian. She envies flat chest and have binded. She feels disphorya towards her body but doesn't know if she is trans enough or not. Currently she has identified as a butch but she is not sure.
Some genderqueers and bigenders take hormones to get an androgynous body. Some transition because they feel their identity is closer to the other gender and don't want to be in the middle.
I myself am having doubts, that's why I know some things about this subject. If any of you is interested I can tell you about my own experience and feelings.
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Nygeel

Ehr...there is no one way to dress or present as a trans man so I don't see a connection. People wear the clothes they want to wear. Some trans men (dare I say it) wear dresses and make up. There is no real point besides that person wanting to dress and present themselves as they like.
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Shana A

Gender identity and gender expression are two different things. It is possible to identify as one gender, and to have a preference for expressing as another gender, or any place in between.

Z
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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wheat thins are delicious

Quote from: beyondlabels on November 08, 2011, 02:25:16 AM
We all know homosexuals often have traits of the opposite gender and all that things are determined by hormones before birth. It's testosterone what makes a woman be lesbian and behave masculine, so I think there's nothing bad in considering being lesbian a masculine trait.

LOL no.  Where are you getting this info? How do you account for all the very femme lesbians if being lesbian is a masculine trait?  Testosterone is not what makes women be lesbians. 


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JenJen2011

I've just seen lesbian "studs" who act and dress like FTM's. And they get upset when you refer to them as FTM and vice-versa I suppose.
"You have one life to live so live it right"
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