Warren Beatty and Annette Bennings FTM son speaks out against Bono

[Wesley_33]

Yeah I'm helping a group now with trans rights with the VA. Working on dependant benifits for the trans military member. Its the same group that got the new VA directive put in place to cover us for medical treatment with the VA. I'm not cut out to be one to talk to the media. I have a nasty mouth at times haha. I'm happy to be doing what I can with this group tho. We all just need to get involved in some way or another and get things changed for the better.

[Nygeel]

Yeah I'm helping a group now with trans rights with the VA. Working on dependant benifits for the trans military member. Its the same group that got the new VA directive put in place to cover us for medical treatment with the VA. I'm not cut out to be one to talk to the media. I have a nasty mouth at times haha. I'm happy to be doing what I can with this group tho. We all just need to get involved in some way or another and get things changed for the better.

I feel like many of us are unable to do much...usually because these are very personal stories being shared.
Try to work on things that are essential that should be accessible for all (ex: allowing trans women into women's shelters).

[Wesley_33]

True most are personal if not we wouldn't be as passionate to work for it. I would rather work on something I feel stongly for than half hearted just for show. There are thousands of vets out there that need the care. Might not help everyone out there but for those of us who worked for these benifits we want what we earned.

[Darrin Scott]

Nygeel,

I saw that you run a trans, fat positive blog. Do you have a link? I'd like to see it.

[Nygeel]

Nygeel,

I saw that you run a trans, fat positive blog. Do you have a link? I'd like to see it.

I sent the link via PM. If anybody wants the link you can PM me.

[Mr. X]

I don't see why his weight matters as a public figure and I didn't think that was implied.

Correct. Not his weight per se, but appearance in general. Though losing weight will help, no doubt.

My point is, there's plenty of gorgeous gay guys in the media, and a pretty MtF on some modeling contest show, as far as i remember. Good representation for them. But who do we get?

We get Chaz.

Sure, someone could point out the "decent looking" FtMs doing indecent things, namely Kael T Block, a serial rapist, fugitive, and Buck Angel, the porn star. Blech. Luckily, they are not really on TV.

I have no problem with Chaz personally, his outlook on life, but i wonder, why do we get all of the odd ones? Why?

Except for Thomas, who had to go public as a result of his pregnancies. He's cool, he passes, he's got a normal family. A real positive example 


-Xx


P.S. To me, Chaz passes, but not in a good way. I'm gonna be blunt about it, but he looks like a guy that got somehow castrated at a fairly young age... yes, the round baby face, lack of male bone structure... the general roundness and extra pounds. And he's got that look to him that makes you feel sorry for him more than anything. Yeah, that's the kind of reactions he gets from the average person, "you poor thing, i hope nothing like this ever happens in my family"... now, that's not the kind of reaction i want. I'm a guy taking control of my life and making things right, and i don't want anyone even remotely thinking there's something to feel sorry for. I'll fight for myself when i have to, i'll stand up for myself, i'm not a wimp, not a baby girl and not anyone that needs other people's prayers. I'm FINE. Save their pity for the homeless wino at the subway, or their cousin's kid with Down's syndrome and a deformed foot. I'm fine, i'll take care of myself and prove myself if i have to. I don't whine. Despite my short stature, i'm more of the oil rigger type than the sensitive gay guy types some people expect FtMs to be.

[Annah]

My point is, there's plenty of gorgeous gay guys in the media, and a pretty MtF on some modeling contest show, as far as i remember. Good representation for them. But who do we get?

We get Chaz.

The value of a person, in my opinion, is not by their looks but by their passions and convictions. I am so sorry that Chaz does not meet the qualifications of your ideal trans role model because he's not handsome enough for you.

I have no problem with Chaz personally, his outlook on life, but i wonder, why do we get all of the odd ones? Why?

Because many of us do not measure the success and outlooks of a person based on their physical characteristics only. Some of us actually look deeper than the skin to find everything about the person and what they have to offer. 

P.S. To me, Chaz passes, but not in a good way. I'm gonna be blunt about it, but he looks like a guy that got somehow castrated at a fairly young age... yes, the round baby face, lack of male bone structure... the general roundness and extra pounds.

Thank goodness no one has given you the responsibility of judging who is a good trans and who isn't based on their bone structure and facial appearance.

And he's got that look to him that makes you feel sorry for him more than anything. Yeah, that's the kind of reactions he gets from the average person, "you poor thing, i hope nothing like this ever happens in my family"... now, that's not the kind of reaction i want. I'm a guy taking control of my life and making things right, and i don't want anyone even remotely thinking there's something to feel sorry for. I'll fight for myself when i have to, i'll stand up for myself, i'm not a wimp, not a baby girl and not anyone that needs other people's prayers. I'm FINE. Save their pity for the homeless wino at the subway, or their cousin's kid with Down's syndrome and a deformed foot. I'm fine, i'll take care of myself and prove myself if i have to. I don't whine. Despite my short stature, i'm more of the oil rigger type than the sensitive gay guy types some people expect FtMs to be.

This has to be the most superficial and most shallow thing I have heard on these forums in a long time.

I'm sorry that your idea of a successful trans person is someone who looks like a movie star or a rock star or masculine (transman) or feminine (transwoman). Maybe you should post some pics of yourself here so we can analyze your trans superiority based on your oil rigger type as the ideal transman?

Last time I checked, a man isn't a man based on his body type.  A man is a man based on his being.

nosce te ipsum
know thyself

[Mr. X]

To be honest, the only people I have seen who have put down Chaz are other transgender people and the conservation right wing political and religious agenda. Not a good mix and, somehow, I am not surprised. Some trans people just love the infighting. It's really tragic.

Well...I suppose i do lean towards conservative, though i don't share their mainstream-fundamentalist religious views, i don't go with the whole flock and don't care for Romney as a candidate. It's just so phony to me. If i had to say what i am politically, i'd identify as libertarian. I'm for less restrictive laws, less bureaucracy and for reasonable gun ownership culture/laws/regulations. I'm for self-sufficiency, but i'm also for good schools, schools that teach well enough that a person will be prepared for life, even if they decide to forgo college. But enough about politics. To each their own.

The value of a person, in my opinion, is not by their looks but by their passions and convictions. I am so sorry that Chaz does not meet the qualifications of your ideal trans role model because he's not handsome enough for you.

You go from "spokesperson" to "role model". Two different things. I think he's a decent role model, but as i said, i don't like him as a spokesperson in his present state. He doesn't speak for me. He invites pity and i don't want none.

Because many of us do not measure the success and outlooks of a person based on their physical characteristics only. Some of us actually look deeper than the skin to find everything about the person and what they have to offer. 

Thank goodness no one has given you the responsibility of judging who is a good trans and who isn't based on their bone structure and facial appearance.

Who is talking about good trans and bad trans? Well, i did mention it, about how the sex predator Kael is bad trans. But i never said anything about his facial structure.

As for Chaz's outlook and personality, i said i have nothing wrong with that, i can quote myself. Although, i did get to leaf thru his book once, and found it a little on the whiny, soggy side. But that's just me.

This has to be the most superficial and most shallow thing I have heard on these forums in a long time.

I'm sorry that your idea of a successful trans person is someone who looks like a movie star or a rock star or masculine (transman) or feminine (transwoman).

That's my idea of a successful celebrity. Yeah. Where a rockstar looks like a rockstar, an a movie star looks like a movie star, and an athlete looks like an athlete. I think that's reasonable. But where did i say that a successful transperson has to be a celebrity? But, if i ever gave an example of a successful transman, it's up there where i wrote about Thomas Beatty, the guy from Oregon. That's my idea of everyday success.

Maybe you should post some pics of yourself here so we can analyze your trans superiority based on your oil rigger type as the ideal transman?

Last time I checked, a man isn't a man based on his body type.  A man is a man based on his being.

I was referring to personality type, not build. I thought that was easy to see in context. I was trying to say that despite being a small guy (shirts size S, gloves size S, shoes size 6), i'm not a timid or sensitive character. I don't want pity, i don't even care for compassion half the time. If i have a problem, i deal with it, and i don't want to be lumped in the same group with a "spokesperson" who is more on the weepy side and gets "oh no, what a mess, poor guy" kind of reactions.


-Xx 

[AbraCadabra]

Media BS, just to get some lines to yack about...

I'm a woman and find nothing wrong with him, the rest... ? PC bull-->-bleeped-<-e, what else?

Right said Fred! :-)
Axelle

[Annah]

That's my idea of a successful celebrity. Yeah. Where a rockstar looks like a rockstar, an a movie star looks like a movie star, and an athlete looks like an athlete. I think that's reasonable. But where did i say that a successful transperson has to be a celebrity? But, if i ever gave an example of a successful transman, it's up there where i wrote about Thomas Beatty, the guy from Oregon. That's my idea of everyday success.

I never stated that you said a transman had to look like a celebrity. I commented against your "ideas" of what a proper transman should look like. Because a transgender, like any other gender should not look like a specific type of "thing." Even for a spokesperson. If you don't like his message that is one thing. If you don't agree with him then you don't agree with him. Making fun of his physical stature and then saying he doesn't fit the mold of a transgender man is pretty shallow.

Trans people have to deal with that stuff from an ignorant public who knows little about transgender people. I mentioned it's tragic when another trans person stoops to that level.

I was referring to personality type, not build.

I am not replying to what you think about his personality type. I am responding to the way you put down his physical appearance as a trans man. This is exactly what you said:

he looks like a guy that got somehow castrated at a fairly young age... yes, the round baby face, lack of male bone structure... the general roundness and extra pounds.

And he's got that look to him that makes you feel sorry for him more than anything.

Those statements do not speak of his personality. It speaks of your opinions on his physical attributes and you summed it up with now, that's not the kind of reaction i want

So, if you were commenting against the things he said versus his looks, you certainly did not come across that way.

[Kareil]

Spokesperson = what we want the rednecks to see on the tabloid covers in the checkout lines so they don't consider us an abomination.  The better looking the guy, the better.

Role model = who inspires *us*.

It's not about *our* shallowness.  It's about the shallowness of the people we already *know* to be shallow, because they're judging us and finding us to not meet their standards of socially acceptable.  The spokesperson you, as a community, want makes you palatable to the ignorant masses, while not betraying too many of your principles in the process.

Chaz, regardless of how good a role model he is to individuals, isn't really the best in that department, as you can tell by judging random people outside the community's reactions.  Every time he makes news, the reactions from even my very gay-friendly mother make me go "Nope, *this* isn't a good week for her and I to have a little chat, either...".

[Brendon]

It's not about *our* shallowness.  It's about the shallowness of the people we already *know* to be shallow, because they're judging us and finding us to not meet their standards of socially acceptable.  The spokesperson you, as a community, want makes you palatable to the ignorant masses, while not betraying too many of your principles in the process.

At the point that we're picking on someone for their weight, it most certainly is about "*our* shallowness".

[Mr. X]

I never stated that you said a transman had to look like a celebrity. I commented against your "ideas" of what a proper transman should look like. Because a transgender, like any other gender should not look like a specific type of "thing." Even for a spokesperson. If you don't like his message that is one thing. If you don't agree with him then you don't agree with him. Making fun of his physical stature and then saying he doesn't fit the mold of a transgender man is pretty shallow.

Trans people have to deal with that stuff from an ignorant public who knows little about transgender people. I mentioned it's tragic when another trans person stoops to that level.

I am not replying to what you think about his personality type. I am responding to the way you put down his physical appearance as a trans man. This is exactly what you said:

he looks like a guy that got somehow castrated at a fairly young age... yes, the round baby face, lack of male bone structure... the general roundness and extra pounds.

And he's got that look to him that makes you feel sorry for him more than anything.

Those statements do not speak of his personality. It speaks of your opinions on his physical attributes and you summed it up with now, that's not the kind of reaction i want

So, if you were commenting against the things he said versus his looks, you certainly did not come across that way.

All i was saying, was everyone else gets to have a celebrity spokesperson that measures up to the "celebrity" level, we - transmen, don't. Looks matter when it's someone who didn't rise from being an "everyman activist", but was a minor celebrity all along. If Chaz were from Kansas or someplace out of the way, i'd never complain about his looks, because he's just an activist. But the way it is now, he doesn't compare well to other social minority celebrity spokespeople. It's within his power to measure up. He doesn't have bad genes, it just takes work. If he lost some weight, his face would start to look normal, and he would gain some confidence. I mean hell, his own mother has made workout videos, my Mom has Cher's exercise tape that she bought like 15 years ago maybe.... maybe it's even older....

The gays have fashionable Adam Lambert (not really an activist, but definitely in the limelight) and we have a "pathetic balloon boy" (not my words, but said by one of my cis-male friends)... it makes gays look fashionable and transmen get a mid-life crisis guy that makes us all look like we need counseling. I mean, is he really the best we have?

When i said i was referring to personality type and not build, i was speaking for myself. That the "oil rigger" comment pertains to my personality and not my body shape. I look positively scrawny right now, since i have to diet to keep the moobs and "hips" from being too obvious. I'm pre-T.


-Xx

[Mr. X]

Spokesperson = what we want the rednecks to see on the tabloid covers in the checkout lines so they don't consider us an abomination.  The better looking the guy, the better.

Role model = who inspires *us*.

It's not about *our* shallowness.  It's about the shallowness of the people we already *know* to be shallow, because they're judging us and finding us to not meet their standards of socially acceptable.  The spokesperson you, as a community, want makes you palatable to the ignorant masses, while not betraying too many of your principles in the process.

Chaz, regardless of how good a role model he is to individuals, isn't really the best in that department, as you can tell by judging random people outside the community's reactions.  Every time he makes news, the reactions from even my very gay-friendly mother make me go "Nope, *this* isn't a good week for her and I to have a little chat, either...".

This^


-Xx 

[JohnAlex]

I mean hey, the way things are now, Chaz is a spokesman for people with double chins, if anything... So... if he insists on being a public figure, he should try to look a little better. We are not all like this, you know... he doesn't represent me, he doesn't represent you. He only truly represents himself and whoever looks and thinks like him.

If anyone is bothered by what i said, so what. I still stand by it. I'd prefer to have no representation at all, than "representation" of this sort, tabloid bait with unrelated psychological issues. I can represent myself very well thank you. If anyone is offended by me criticizing his weight, remember that it's Hollywood, it's not real life. It's not you that i have a problem with. You can eat all you want, eat till you fall thru the ceiling. I'd never have a problem with your appearance, it's a personal choice + biology...  But aren't people on TV supposed to all be good-looking?

Um, I highly doubt that.  If I had to choose between Chaz Bono or no one, I'd pick Chaz Bono hands down.  As much as you want to nit pick about how Chaz doesn't live up to your perfect image of the ideal PR person, he at least is bringing awareness to ->-bleeped-<-.  It's still a step in the right direction.  Imagine how horrible things would be if we had no trans awareness?  Chaz bring awareness and with awareness comes acceptance. 

Sure he may not be perfect.  But he does represent himself and others like him very well.  So what we need is not to get rid of him as a PR person, but to get even  more diverse FTM transgenders to represent us.  And I think that will happen in time.

[Mr. X]

From what i see, some people here are LBGT/community oriented. I'm not, i'm more of the lone wolf type, so my opinion may differ. I'm mostly here for (medical) research, not psychological support.

Plus, i think for a lot of parents the image of Chaz is a scarecrow that they don't want their kid to turn into. Uneducated people form their opinions based on what they see and feel when they look at him, rather than on what he says. They don't want to look him up and figure out what kind of person he is. One look at a magazine cover is enough.


-Xx

[Annah]

From what i see, some people here are LBGT/community oriented. I'm not, i'm more of the lone wolf type, so my opinion may differ. I'm mostly here for (medical) research, not psychological support.

Plus, i think for a lot of parents the image of Chaz is a scarecrow that they don't want their kid to turn into. Uneducated people form their opinions based on what they see and feel when they look at him, rather than on what he says. They don't want to look him up and figure out what kind of person he is. One look at a magazine cover is enough.


-Xx

If you are here purely for medical research then why the need to trash the guy's physical appearance? Chaz should not even be of any concern for you to even post about him if all you are interested in is Medical Research.

Uneducated people will base their opinions on how Chaz looks? Xx, you are doing just that when you criticize his looks.

I've been intimately involved in the conservative religious communities, the Republican right wing communities, and counseled children for over ten years, and currently assisting a church and helping as a Chaplain in a Nursing facility in December. I have to say, that in all my experiences, the trans community complaining about self issues and ripping each other apart because someone doesn't "fit the part" or "agreed with another viewpoints" is probably a more constant image than any other group of people I have ever witnessed in my 37 years of existence. And I am not remotely exaggerating.

Worse than a bunch of old people duking it out over the last checker chip at Shady Acres retirement homes.

Armchair ethicists. I love em. It's easy to sit in a chair and type out how much someone dislikes another. It's much harder to walk alongside someone in a common goal of gender equality and respect one another despite differences.

[JohnAlex]

Plus, i think for a lot of parents the image of Chaz is a scarecrow that they don't want their kid to turn into. Uneducated people form their opinions based on what they see and feel when they look at him, rather than on what he says. They don't want to look him up and figure out what kind of person he is. One look at a magazine cover is enough.

I can understand this a little.  Because at least with my family, Chaz Bono is ALL they know about trans people.  Actually my Uncle told me that testosterone caused Chaz to gain all that weight, he was trying to caution me about starting testosterone.  I mean, he was completely wrong, Chaz Bono was overweight before he came out as trans. 

But I would still have to say that my family knowing about trans people because of Chaz Bono is better than them not knowing at all.   I never would have come out to them if it weren't for Chaz.  My aunt and uncle watched him on Oprah, and they were able to understand a little bit.  and once I realized they didn't hate trans people by the way they spoke of him, I came out to them as well.  Who knows what they would think of me if they knew nothing about trans people until I came out to them.

I feel like Chaz bono just wants to help people in his own way.  And I would like to say thank you to Chaz bono for going on Oprah and educating my family a little.  It made things easier for me.  And that's all Chaz Bono wanted to do.

He doesn't want to be the sole representative of the trans community.

[Mr. X]

If you are here purely for medical research then why the need to trash the guy's physical appearance? Chaz should not even be of any concern for you to even post about him if all you are interested in is Medical Research.

Once again, the misunderstanding is in your head. "Purely" ≠ "mostly". I said mostly. Half the time i'm here, i dig up two and half year old threads, though i never reply to them. If i did, i would be a Thread Necromancer! 

Uneducated people will base their opinions on how Chaz looks? Xx, you are doing just that when you criticize his looks.

I've been intimately involved in the conservative religious communities, the Republican right wing communities, and counseled children for over ten years, and currently assisting a church and helping as a Chaplain in a Nursing facility in December. I have to say, that in all my experiences, the trans community complaining about self issues and ripping each other apart because someone doesn't "fit the part" or "agreed with another viewpoints" is probably a more constant image than any other group of people I have ever witnessed in my 37 years of existence. And I am not remotely exaggerating.

Worse than a bunch of old people duking it out over the last checker chip at Shady Acres retirement homes.

Armchair ethicists. I love em. It's easy to sit in a chair and type out how much someone dislikes another. It's much harder to walk alongside someone in a common goal of gender equality and respect one another despite differences.

Like i said, i'm the lone wolf kind of person, i don't walk at pride events, i don't participate in TG/TS meets, you won't see me out there because i don't relish being a person with some strange, publicly identifiable condition. I just am. I don't look for someone to cry on their shoulder, and on the same note, don't like to be mistaken for someone that does.

Transpeople come from all walks of life, and it's no surprise that we don't agree. But it's fine by me. I don't want to be you, and don't want you to be me. Your circle of friends is not like my friends, and the next person is completely different than either of us. And it's life   

I'll say it the 4th time, i don't like Chaz to be the spokesman. I don't like people to compare me to him before they figure out that i'm not at all like him. For me personally, his "representation" is worse than no representation. End of story.


-Xx

[Mr. X]

I feel like Chaz bono just wants to help people in his own way.  And I would like to say thank you to Chaz bono for going on Oprah and educating my family a little.  It made things easier for me.  And that's all Chaz Bono wanted to do.

He doesn't want to be the sole representative of the trans community.

That's cool

A positive thing... and i'm glad he's aware that everyone's experience is different. I wish someone else would come along, so he won't have 100% of the spotlight. That way everyone wins, we can all agree on that.


-Xx