Do you think this is realistic? *First showing of my face*

[RhinoP]

So I'm doing morphs of what I wish to look like after Hormones and FFS - I'm being conservative as possible, only changing the essential features that prevent me from appearing realistically and attractively female no matter how much make-up or wigs I put on.

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee437/RPlace123/fem1.png
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee437/RPlace123/fem.png

Huge, revolutional change in my opinion, without much physical change at all (Revision Rhinoplasty, Forhead Surgery, and natural changes of the lips, skin, and chin from Hormones + eyebrow pencil, possibly eyebrow follicle implants / eyebrow lift from the forehead surgery.) I feel like I just don't pass in my original state, owing mainly to my extreme forhead and nasal bulbosity from both angles.

Also, the frontal morph is a bit sloppy around the eyebrows, but it's all that I could do. I think both these pictures show just how much my features distract from my extremely pretty, female eyes, and I believe they look exactly how I should have looked if I was born a girl. Also, to all those who say I'm too obsessed with my appearance: I actually like my jawline and chin and I probably wouldn't have that type of surgery for the world. With a tad of change from the result of Hormones, I don't see why my jaw would pose any problem in looking female for me as long as my other features are in order.

I just think from both angles, I have a very mean, angry, haggard, "Sean Bean"-ish look about me. Here's Sean Bean for reference:

http://images.starpulse.com/pictures/2007/02/04/previews/Sean%20Bean-SGG-035567.jpg
http://bestof.provocateuse.com/images/photos/sean_bean_94.jpg

[Lee]

Rhino, from your previous posts I was expecting something way different.  Not knowing much about ffs, I'll let other people comment on that.  I just wanted to say that you have some very pretty features.

[~RoadToTrista~]

I always pictured you looking exactly like Judge Judy, lolz

[RhinoP]

Well, I mean I think almost every pre-Hormone/pre-FFS Surgery MTF I've ever seen looks overall as though at least a trace of estrogen has influenced them, but I don't think anything about my face is soft or cute except my very thick, oily skin, which I only have because I'm part Native American and thick skin of my type (on a 115lbs petite male) is actually the result of a lot of male hormones. But even in these pictures, I'm wearing a studio-grade makeup that's designed to cover burns and scars and things, just to cover my extreme rosacea and androgen shine. My skin swells and burns very, very much, which may give it an estrogen-y look.

Otherwise, I don't think there's a single thing about my face that could be considered female or cute. My nose is very bulbous from all angles, a typical trait of 50 year old "Elmer Fudd" type men - my nasal bone is only so low because I've previously had two very traumatic Rhinoplasties that have really jacked up the shape of my entire nose, the low nasal bone actually causing my nasal tip to look even more bulbous and my forehead to look that much bigger. My forhead is probably one of the most extreme on this entire forum, especially for MTF's under 60 years old. (People truly can't compare me to very old MTF's, it's an entirely different look and age group there.) My chin is rather weak, but in a male shape instead of anything that adds a female accent to my face. And other than that, a face doesn't have any other features. Oh yeah, and I'm also going bald rapidly and my facial hair follicles are starting to get extremely hard to cover.

I mean, at the end of the day, most of the badly-passing MTF's I see are well over 40 years old and spent most of their life pretending to be male and not caring about their health, and since I truly was always smart enough to believe in myself and to know who I am since I was like 11, I feel like I deserve to feel the positive effects of transitioning while young, the very-feminine look you see so naturally often among MTF's aged 11-30 but - as is still unexplained, despite the fact that I'm in my early 20's, I have the skeletal features of someone in their lare 40's or 50's (not saying I have wrinkles and sun spots, just saying concerning features of the skull and my baldness/rosacea/oil levels.) I mean, I know I could look much uglier, but I'm way past the "point of no return" IMO and from there, the problem is the same no matter what ya look like. Even when I get into that "passable" zone with surgery, I still don't think I'll ever be that much of a "hot" girl.

LMFAO: Okay, imagine my Pre-Op face with boobs only a foot below it. It's impossible. Even my post-OP Morphs make it difficult to really picture me having hips or boobs, the side profile allows it more than the front. Not saying I want big porno boobs, I've actually always dreamed of just having little peckers like Milla Jovovich but with my current face, not even Milla boobs would look anywhere near normal.

[Forever21Chic]

I always pictured you looking exactly like Judge Judy, lolz

  LOL

I always thought RhinoP was gonna look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. 

[kelly_aus]

  LOL

I always thought RhinoP was gonna look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. 

I had an image of cro-magnon man.. or one of the the other pre Homo sapiens types, like a Neanderthal..

But more on topic, you'll be amazed at just how much HRT can change your skin.. I don't think your bone structure is really any worse than mine.. And I'm not that fussed by it..  I'd give the hormones a year or so to do their thing before I got too strung up on surgery..

[Kelly J. P.]

 Regarding the features you are having problems with, mainly the nose and brow ridge, I believe that yours are more feminine than mine. You can sort of see my nose and brow ridge in my avatar... if you look closely. Now, I'm not sure about what people on this board may think about my appearance, but it is my experience that I pass rather well. Because of that, I imagine that the problems you have with your bone structure won't get in the way of passing as much as you seem to think. Rather, I believe that you will do rather well pre-ffs... Based on the posts I've read of you... I had never even thought that you would look as cute as you do. I'm not the first to say that, and I doubt I'll be the last to think it.

Your edits are realistic, for sure (they might undershoot the results a bit, in my opinion), and I have no doubt that you will be a stunning beauty one way or another.

Chase after those hormones... and try them for a while. Even you, with your critical mind, might decide that you don't need FFS. You may still want it, but at least the lead-up will be more enjoyable.

Oh, and I can't see how you can even think of Sean Bean when you look at yourself. It's a very loose correlation at best; I think I have more in common with him than you do.

[lilacwoman]

give hormones time to work and then go for the best FFS - a smile.

[RhinoP]

Honestly, Kelly J, look at your cheeks and chin - you look just like MTF model Isis off of America's Next Top Model. Your cheeks and small chin and jawline make you reek of amazingly hot femininity. Now, your nose looks slightly abstract (a curve to it - a "possibly" masculine nose, though I've seen a billion female fashion models with that exact nose), but your forehead is a bit less pronounced and "sudden" than mine - I can tell right off the bat that yours has more a"soft" curve to it, and also that your high nasal bridge helps "conjoin" to it, giving more of a flow from the front and most of all, probably the side profile. Overall, you have the features I've seen on a million female fashion models, but I don't have a single feature I've ever seen on any. For me, it's all about how features come together and paint one as male or female - I've seen many men out there with perfectly symmetrical, soft features, but still could no way pass as female. It takes a certain combination of features that just don't add up for me.

I just don't have a single feature that connects with any known portrait of young adult female beauty. I've never seen a female model, actress, singer, ect ect that looks like me, and I'm not talking about the most famous of the famous, I'm talking even about low-class Disney Channel stars and American Eagle website clothing models. I've never seen one attractive girl out there with my features; I knew one girl in high school who had my exact features, and literally everyone in school picked on her for looking like a man and she had absolutely no friends (she also had a mustache and constant acne - I suspected she had a very bad hormone imbalance.) I know that from the side profile, I definatly have a "Neanderthal" look that you see on surgery websites where a doctor's showing his pre-surgery patients.

The facial character of Post-Op Patient is around what I believe my features overall come together and paint me as (btw, I said post-op because I believe this patient looks 10x more female in the "before" than "after", in the "after", she looks like a ->-bleeped-<-, in the "before", she merely looks like an elderly female - bad surgery there.):

http://www.drspiegel.com/wp-content/gallery/ffs/c.jpg

That is NOT what is beautiful/passing on someone who is younger than 25 years old. Imagine that 60 year old woman being a fashion model for TEENAGE clothing at American Eagle. I'm NOT 60 years old. I shouldn't look like that. The only gals I look like are the girls my age who have been diagnosed with Acromegaly, which I believe I have. I hate to be cruel (especially if this picture above is of someone on this forum) but the facts have to be said: I'm younger than 25, and I don't think any pre-age-25 person on this forum looks as natally masculine, aged, and stern as I do.

[AmySmiles]

Hon, you are going to be fine.  From how you have been talking these last several months, I was expecting you to look a lot worse than that.  You called yourself an ogre, and you are nowhere near that.  I had a lot of the same problems before HRT - redness around the center of the face, excessively oily skin, and large facial pores.  I also had a badly protruding forehead, large chin, and ugly nose.  My nose was worse than yours, and I think the brow ridge was too, yet I was still told I passed well (from the front) even before I had FFS.  Get on hormones first.  Or if you're on them, have your doctor make sure you're at proper dosages.  Then, if you're still not happy after a year, think about FFS.

I'll show you my FFS before/after from the side for reference, since that was where I looked by far the worst.  Note, the "before" was after a year on hormones.  If Dr. O could do this for me, certainly he (or someone else experienced in bone work) can do the same for you.  Please don't quote this picture, I'm going to take it down at some point.

[RhinoP]

Well AmySmiles, overall, I think your before photo look genuinely female compared to my before, even though the reason is hard to put the finger on; your before indeed looks uncannily alike to my current situation, though. I also would bet your front profile was nowhere near as large-jawed, bulbous-nosed, and mean-browed as mine - all of this coming together and most likely having gave you much more confidence than I can ever manage to muster. I'm not trying to battle over who was more female looking, cuz really, we look(ed) a heck a lot alike; just, somehow, I'm seeing a few more traces of female in your pre-face than I can currently seem to find in mine. Like, even if your nose was droopy and your brow prominent, I somehow see just slight traces in those features that actually look feminine compared to mine. If I'm a 2 on the male-or-female scale, I'd say you were a 4 or 5 back then (and a complete 10 now  ). Maybe it was merely the long, blonde hair, another reason I'm searching for a great, feature-fitting wig a the moment, one that'll really help out my face.

On top of the advice of waiting two years on HRT, though, I really am suicidal about my face and unless I get FFS in the coming months, I just don't think I'll live much longer - my surgically-needy traits are traits that HRT will not improve, and on top of my suicidal thoughts concerning my transitioning and passing, I also have PTSD because of how I've had TWO rhinoplasty surgeries already, both clearly botched and unsuccesful, which have left me penny-less and in poverty. Horrible situation to be in, and yet it looks like you got so extremely lucky  with your surgeries :[. My next rhinoplasty will have to cost me at least $12,000 cuz it's a third time Rhino. However, if I could start HRT tomorrow, I'd do it to help my oily, red skin and skin thickness, balding, body-and-face hair, and all that, that's what I've wanted to do for awhile and can't afford it. Even with my nose, it may thin the skin some too! I also currently have bangs, which cover the forehead, and overall, I've really harked on and on about starting HRT as much as getting FFS, just, I can afford neither!

P.S. To everyone, I still think I look like an orge, but maybe a teenage ogre would describe it better; I'm sure everyone was thinking of someone in their 40's or 50's when I described myself, because that's what their used to seeing on non-passers, but I think the simple fact that I'm younger has thrown people off. All the non-passers actually looked like me at my age, though, even Sean Bean looked identical to me when he was 21. I am young, yes, but I do have extremely large features for a girl. Any natal girl who looked like me would have already killed herself. Either that, or would have given up on most of the experiences of life and settled for working at Burger King for the rest of her days - I've known so many people to have given up on life merely because of their looks. Everyone has to also consider that it really is my lifelong passion to be an actress/actor in all of my written screenplays, and to be a musician and public speaker who is constantly in the spotlight for bringing good to this world. I just can't help the world looking like this, it'll never accept me.

[lilacwoman]

I can't understand hwo you've had two rhinos and still not happy unless you haven't waited about 9 months for them to settle down.
I 'd say forget more rhino and go for cheek implants to lessen the apparent size of nose and put some shape on your face and then maybe think of brow shaving.

[AmySmiles]

How can you afford 12k for a rhinoplasty and not afford to start on HRT?  You should put HRT first - the surgery can be put off a few months if need be, but hormones do make a difference in skin quality, oiliness, facial shape, fat distribution, and other things.  Together, those will have a much larger impact on your appearance than a nose job will.  And what do you do if this nose job is botched?  That's another 12k gone for nothing with no other progress made.

[lynn27]

i haven't read all your replies, but I must say you will be surprised at the change to the upper eyelids after brow surgery. before I had trouble applying eyeshadow so it actually showed, now without a dramatic "surprised" brow lift my upper eyelids look 4 times as big.

Of course, you have very gentle youthful features already and that makes girl mode, with or without FFS, much easier..

So I'm doing morphs of what I wish to look like after Hormones and FFS - I'm being conservative as possible, only changing the essential features that prevent me from appearing realistically and attractively female no matter how much make-up or wigs I put on.

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee437/RPlace123/fem1.png
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee437/RPlace123/fem.png

Huge, revolutional change in my opinion, without much physical change at all (Revision Rhinoplasty, Forhead Surgery, and natural changes of the lips, skin, and chin from Hormones + eyebrow pencil, possibly eyebrow follicle implants / eyebrow lift from the forehead surgery.) I feel like I just don't pass in my original state, owing mainly to my extreme forhead and nasal bulbosity from both angles.

Also, the frontal morph is a bit sloppy around the eyebrows, but it's all that I could do. I think both these pictures show just how much my features distract from my extremely pretty, female eyes, and I believe they look exactly how I should have looked if I was born a girl. Also, to all those who say I'm too obsessed with my appearance: I actually like my jawline and chin and I probably wouldn't have that type of surgery for the world. With a tad of change from the result of Hormones, I don't see why my jaw would pose any problem in looking female for me as long as my other features are in order.

I just think from both angles, I have a very mean, angry, haggard, "Sean Bean"-ish look about me. Here's Sean Bean for reference:

http://images.starpulse.com/pictures/2007/02/04/previews/Sean%20Bean-SGG-035567.jpg
http://bestof.provocateuse.com/images/photos/sean_bean_94.jpg

[RhinoP]

There's just too many factors to explain why I can't afford anything now and why I took which steps first, but really, I don't see where my features are soft or youthful. Things like a prominent brow and large nose (both which I have) are considered traits of a mature, adult face, and tend to add a mean, grumpy look. While I'm sure my "personality shows through" just because I'm not growling or flexing my muscles like a linebacker, I believe the features are there and prevent me from looking like woman - even as a male, the majority of the people my age think that I look very goofy, haggard, and ugly. I'm not even a vision of what today's young, eager, fashionable businessman is supposed to look like (and take one look at UrbanOutfitters.com to see an example of that.) Either way, I've always felt my features were plain too big.

Basically, back to the rhinoplasty, I had financial help on the first procedure from my family, and because they were extremely religious, I couldn't tell them (or even the doctor) that I truly wanted my nose to look feminine. (However, I explained to the doctor very critically what I wanted in terms of aesthetics, and I wanted a nose just like in my morph photo, and he agreed.) He mutilated my nose though to tiny proportions though, and it collapsed before the healing year was up. Because it collapsed, it effected my breathing and everything and I was in constant pain, making me suffer tremendously, which is why I had to undergo the second procedure involving cartilage grafts (now making my nose look fat and bulbous). I was very specific to the second doctor as well, that I still wanted a small, modern, symmetrical nose, but he created the nose of frankenstein out of a lot of ear grafts. And it's been three years since the second procedure, btw.

[Cindy]

Oh Rhino,

You've been posting as if you are a cross between Quasimodo and Schwarzenegger, much the same really . You have attractive feminine features. As others have said let the HRT to its magic, you also have HAIR, long beautiful hair, grow it. You have gorgeous lips, you have cute cheek bones. You may not need FFS, take your time. You will be shocked on the effect of HRT at your age. An old cow like me will just look like and old cow like me. But a happy one.  You could look stunning.

Cindy

[lynn27]

We can often be our worst critics, your negative perceptions of your looks may be projected out to those around you and they could be reflecting what they think you want to hear.

The cheapest FFS is a warm smile and a positive attitude.

[Tristan]

i say go for it

[RhinoP]

I'll post the same image, but with my entire skull coming into view, which honestly I think helps emphasize what I believe about my face. Beyond not looking remotely like a woman in the picture on the left, I believe my face also looks "knobbly" because of my rounded or exaggerated features, much like a "Midget's" face (I believe I resemble, by feature comparison, the boy from the show "Little People, Big World" - http://www.truefilms.com/LittlePeople4.jpg ) Sadly, I've seen many female and male midgets with much more symmetrical and less knobbly features than I have. It's truly very depressing, in my opinion.:

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee437/RPlace123/Morph.jpg

This time, I erased all the facial hair on the "current me" photo on the left, to show what I look like completely shaven. Not much improvement. And hormones do not change brow and nose structure... I'd KILL to look like the photo on the right, I'm not exactly sure if it looks strictly female, but I believe that's what I should have been born looking like. I actually looked just like that up until puberty, where male hormones caused an extreme growth in my nasal tip and forehead, so idk. I was happy as a child, and I want to look like that again. I'm tired of having the exact features that you see on Neanderthals:

http://www.erichufschmid.net/Neanderthals/Neanderthal-man.jpg

Even this caveman has a 10x smaller nose than me!!! Though the forehead is EXACTLY the same shape. On the caveman, his forehead sticks out exactly as far as his chin, and yet on me, my forehead sticks out farther than my chin. It's ridiculous! I look like a caveman, and I literally have Neanderthal features (rounded, prominent forehead/rounded, prominent nasal tip) that you see on that species! It's what I was called all through high school, I know it to be true!

P.S. Also on the morphed photo, the petite features truly make me look very intelligent, like a high-strung classical composer. On my "current" photo, I look like a brute or a "country boy". Since I'm a screenwriter, composer, actor/actress, author, pianist, vocalist, percussionist, fashion designer, CEO, choreographer, cinematographer, editor, and artist in real life, I choose the intellectual look anyway regardless of my gender goals. Not saying I'm successful at any of those given fields, but I've performed/been paid/had my work publicized in all those fields at some point in my very short life, and when you look like a "Billy Bob Country Boy" like my features do, the whole world is against anything you do that is considered "modern".

Basically, this is an example of what a college girl MY AGE is supposed to look like, this is the AVERAGE girl my age that I see on the streets. I am not 50 years old, I'm not 60 years old, and I'm not fat or tall. I'm 5'4 and 115lbs. Any girl my size is 10000X cuter than me. This is a normal girl my age:

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/376567_189458944479458_100002460616692_382828_760849441_n.jpg

And to the people my age, if you're much uglier than that, you either look manly or look ugly. Things just aren't as "free" at my age, where none of the intelligent and fashionable gals have gotten pregnant 4 times and now look like men. It's a completely different aesthetic to be young, and in my age group, I just don't think I pass one bit, from any angle. I don't believe even surgery will make me pass 100%, but it will indeed make me look like my personality, which is just as important to me.

I do look like a midget =[:

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee437/RPlace123/livia-corona11.jpg

[lilacwoman]

[quote author=RhinoP 
And to the people my age, if you're much uglier than that, you either look manly or look ugly. Things just aren't as "free" at my age, where

Thanks for that RhinoP...but I have to say that there are an awful lot of 40/50/60 year old MTFs walking round town living a nice happy womans life even though they may have started out very male while you're stuck in Cinderalla land dreaming.
Very few of us have the aim of wanting to be a hot chick - we just wanna be like other women.