Yes, you pass. Ummm, no you don't.

[JenJen2011]

Recently I've been reading posts from several girls telling other girls they "totally pass", "definitely pass", "you look all woman", etc and then I look at the pics they're referring to and perhaps something is wrong with my eyes but I just don't see it.

I don't want ya'll to take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to be mean or make any of the girls feel bad, I just don't think it's right that we lie to them. I wonder if these girls are saying it just to be nice? Or maybe my transdar is too strong and I know what to look for? Like some people tell me I pass but I don't see it.

Now, some of these girls are totally pretty but pretty=/=passable. So, maybe they're mixing the two?

I don't know. Maybe someone can enlighten me a bit.

[caseyyy]

I really think it just depends on the person evaluating their presentation. I personally take people exactly as they are, so someone is likely to get a "pass" from me when they wouldn't from others. Passing is a tricky deal anyway; just like the trans community will have people with all different sorts of critical eye, that will happen with cispeople too. It's opinion as far as I'm concerned.

[0451]

Well, then say they don't pass.  Don't feel bad about it.  I see this all the time too.

I just posted to the "Do I Pass" page, and while many people said I looked pretty, and even just about passed, I don't think I do.  Someone else stated that I look like a guy in all three pics, and suggested some things to fix this.  Really- I appreciate the honesty.  I want people to say when I don't pass.  I'm glad when someone points out my flaws, even if it hurts.  Thinking you pass != passing.

I think people are just afraid of hurting other peoples' feelings and want to be affirming and nice.  Unfortunately, this can be detrimental, as many can get the wrong idea and not realize they can improve or what they can do about it, especially when they want objective advice.

Seriously, you can say I look like a dude.  Sometimes the truth hurts, but pain is just a natural part of life.

[Lily]

There has always been an epidemic of good-intentioned dishonesty here, and it annoys me too.

I'm ok with generosity and optimism, and people saying that "you'll definitely pass one day, and here are some suggestions on how to get better..." but telling someone they "totally pass right now 100%" when the person really, really doesn't is obviously a lie. It's not helpful, it's the opposite of helpful.

[Kelly J. P.]

I feel like I encounter this a lot in real life too. It's the reason I don't really feel like posting in the Do I Pass thread... while I'm sure good things may be said, I'd be very worried about the honesty of said opinions, which ultimately makes someone saying I don't pass more upsetting.

It's a good thing I know where I am though. I'm very androgynous... leaning towards feminine I guess. If I tried, I could make a hot guy, however ... in my experience, I also make a hot girl.

Perhaps teaching people to make up their own minds is the remedy.

[Torn1990]

 lie to them? or eachother? 
I don't think anyone here is lying, we just give eachother credit. But I guess it depends on how you define what a woman looks like. In that case, I wonder if cis women are passing under the trans radar.
I honestly will never tell someone they do not pass because I feel like we are all women, just women who have different types of bodies.
If they need cosmetic help they need to be proactive themselves, we can give them all the tips we want but i don't think 2D pictures really give anyone the ability to tell someone what will truly look good on them.
I think the do i pass thread should be a place where we support eachothers efforts for even taking transition steps not a place to calculate biological features we can't do too much about. But I do have a problem with some trans women on this forum who feel confident enough to speak from any place of authority and clock women on the thread for not looking conventionally attractive as women, like they probably can.
I think instead of focussing on hiding our trans identity from the public by "passing" we should focus on empowerment of trans bodies and normalizing trans bodies.
No, I don't lie to women on the thread when i tell them they look beautiful.
I'll speak from my own experience:  When people tell me I do not pass, i feel ugly and don't want to leave my house, when i'm told I look pretty it gives me the confidence to walk into a hair salon and tell the stylist's I am trans and I need a haircut that will help me feminize my face.

[Amazon D]

Passing is always relative to the situation

[Natkat]

I think its stupid for transgender people to jugde because transmen find it WAY more easy to point out other trans men as well as transwomen.
one person I know who are mtf pass in public but with other trans folks it seams obviouly shes trans.

also the most are only jugded on pictures which I think is pretty stupid. you cant really jugde if someone pass from only a photo, yes if you will use it for the web but not for everyday life.

[Dahlia]

<but with other trans folks it seams obviouly shes trans.>

depends on the MTF's........better write: 'but with GG's it seems she's obviously TS'

Same thing goes for me: put me in a group of MTF's and I'm the most feminine looking/acting etc.

Put me in a group of bio men and I'm most obviously a woman.

Put me in a  mixed group of people and I don't draw any attention.

Put me in a group of bio women and I'm obviously a TS.

The size of a MTF head, overall bodysizes etc.....they happen to differ from GG's thus making a MTF looking like a MTF when in a group of bio women.

The kind of things you can't see properly on pics but for sure in real life.

And yes: the 'do I pass thread' comments remind me of 'the new clothes of the emperor' too.....

[Rabbit]

Well, yup, ideally...we should all tell the truth all the time

But, in reality, it is more complicated than that... and sometimes, the truth really isn't important.

This is very much so with our community. A lot of us go through extremely sensitive times with respect to how we look... and, even though we don't "pass", a lie now and then can at least help us feel better for a little bit as we keep transitioning and get through things.

Always giving people straight honest answers is a very bad idea. They are already very aware of their flaws and probably beat themselves up constantly over them... so... saying they look pretty or they are doing great or other types of support isn't doing any real harm.

Now, of course, maybe avoid telling them they pass (just so they won't try going full time too soon...which is a huge problem people do)... but, everything besides that is great to say.

If you read those threads, you have those who lie about how people look... and then you have the "honest" ones who start emotionlessly listing all the things wrong with someones face... and it really seems like the "honest" ones are the ones that cause more harm ....

[Nurse With Wound]

It's a bit of a wobbly subject really and the frame of mind the person has counts for a lot. For instance some people who get comments saying they don't pass will be like "Okay, I don't pass now, but I'll damn put in the effort!"

But then on the other hand I know for me that if I'm having a bad spill of "Oh God I have a huage man face" that people telling me I won't be able to/don't pass will just depress me even more, whereas if I get comments like "Naw gurl u good lookin you just need a bit X and you could do Y" is a lot more helpful as it gives me a bit more confidence to try that little bit more than "No you don't pass, get FFS".

[Forever21Chic]

 
   Pictures don't really prove anything, almost anyone here could pass in a picture it just depends on the angle and lighting.


   
   I think the 2 "do i" "could i" pass threads are kind of pointless which is why i've never posted in them. Now the "fabulous" thread is a different story, it's more for showing off then anything else lol. 

[Nurse With Wound]

   I think the 2 "do i" "could i" pass threads are kind of pointless which is why i've never posted in them. Now the "fabulous" thread is a different story, it's more for showing off then anything else lol. 

Naw there's a decent reason, like you might not be long on hormones/trying to present as female so posting in the "Do I Pass?" thread would be silly as you're not even trying to pass.

[EmmaM]

You tell me if you pass.

It takes a long time to become gender blind. Lots of therapy involved. Girl with a beard? I'm down with that. Dude with boobs? High five! Doesn't matter to me.

I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo happy the Do I Pass threads don't pop back up for me anymore.

[JenJen2011]

lie to them? or eachother?

Whoever fits the shoe.

I honestly will never tell someone they do not pass

Then hopefully you're not posting in the "Do I Pass" thread as some girls actually want honest answers.

But I do have a problem with some trans women on this forum who feel confident enough to speak from any place of authority and clock women on the thread

Well, that's the purpose of the "Do I Pass" thread, to see if we are clockable to others, to see if we actually look like cisgendered females and be able to blend in.

No, I don't lie to women on the thread when i tell them they look beautiful.

And you shouldn't. But like I said before, beautiful doesn't always equal passable.

I'll speak from my own experience:  When people tell me I do not pass, i feel ugly and don't want to leave my house, when i'm told I look pretty it gives me the confidence to walk into a hair salon and tell the stylist's I am trans and I need a haircut that will help me feminize my face.

If you think you won't be able to take criticism, then don't post your picture in that thread. The girls that do post, really want to know if they pass or not. Some even asks others to be "brutally honest".

[JenJen2011]

I think its stupid for transgender people to jugde because transmen find it WAY more easy to point out other trans men as well as transwomen.
one person I know who are mtf pass in public but with other trans folks it seams obviouly shes trans.

For the most part, yes, but there are a few out there who I couldn't tell was trans until they said so.

also the most are only jugded on pictures which I think is pretty stupid. you cant really jugde if someone pass from only a photo, yes if you will use it for the web but not for everyday life.

True.

[JenJen2011]

Always giving people straight honest answers is a very bad idea. They are already very aware of their flaws and probably beat themselves up constantly over them... so... saying they look pretty or they are doing great or other types of support isn't doing any real harm...
...If you read those threads, you have those who lie about how people look... and then you have the "honest" ones who start emotionlessly listing all the things wrong with someones face... and it really seems like the "honest" ones are the ones that cause more harm ....

Some are actually looking for straight honest answers though. However, I don't agree with being offensive, insulting, etc. There are gentle and helpful ways you can say you don't pass without taking it to that level.

[stldrmgrl]

I think the 2 "do i" "could i" pass threads are kind of pointless which is why i've never posted in them. Now the "fabulous" thread is a different story ...

I agree.  I also find the "Could I pass one day" thread useless because just about anyone could pass with sufficient effort [and money].  As for suggestions, I suppose that's a tad bit different, though still pointless overall.  Posting a picture with facial hair, untrimmed/unshaped eyebrows, no make-up, etc. and asking "could I pass one day" makes me speechless; the basics of "what to do" should be obvious, I would think.

Recently I've been reading posts from several girls telling other girls they "totally pass", "definitely pass", "you look all woman", etc and then I look at the pics they're referring to and perhaps something is wrong with my eyes but I just don't see it.

Yeah, I have noticed this too.  I rarely reply to any posts in those threads, but I do occasionally.  When I do, I make sure I share my honest opinion because I personally would hate to be given false hope (though I'm not really interested in opinions of whether or not I pass; I can already answer that question myself).  But yeah, I agree with you.

[Joeyboo~ :3]

This post was about my pictures wasn't it.

*hangs myself*

[JenJen2011]

This post was about my pictures wasn't it.

*hangs myself*

HAHA! Noooooooooooo