Transsexual regret

[tinkerbell]

However Tink I love the topic!

Originally I posted it under the news forum, for that's how it was classified under the Advocate website, but then I noticed that it was more like an informative article than news, so I moved it here under Transgender Talk.  I am glad you enjoyed it, Wendy.

tink

[Thundra]

Well,

after reading all of the posts, and feeling the pain being emanated, I feel like I should say something positive, even though I am like the last person to turn to in that regard.
My philosophy has always been, it can always be worse.

But there is this. All over the world, and thru the millenia, women have always gotten the short end of the stick. If I can't say anything inspirational, I can note the obvious.
We are all still here. We could not be here, were it not for the indominable ability for the average woman to slog thru the mire of whatever is thrown at her and to rise above it.

As long as you are able to endure, you have the chance to overcome all obstacles set before you, and all people trying to impede your way.  All that you have to do is survive, to keep trying, to keep chipping away a little at a time. Eventually, even baby steps will lead you around the world. Everytime you feel like you are stuck, just remind yourself of those baby steps, because we all need to walk before we can run.

You might not be able to get ahead beating your head against a wall, but as long as you keep poking your head out there, eventually you will find a way around that damn wall -- I guarantee it.

[Teri Anne]

KATIA - I hadn't heard of that quote from Renee Richards.  So she called herself a "terribly misguided ->-bleeped-<-?"  Geez, I must have missed that part in her book.  Wow.  I can see now why, if that's truly the case, why she would have so many questions after the SRS.  I would have thought that a highly educated doctor would not have made such a tragic mistake.

TARA - I enjoyed your post.  Yes, the world does indeed swirl around us and we need to remain calm.  Budhist monks probably have the best grasp of how to turn the noise down and find peace in nature.

THUNDRA - I think I see an opening in the wall.  Hmm, wow.  What a pretty seashore.

Transsexual regret is, to me, kind of a waste of time and energy.  What's done is done and we move onto the next place.  They say that people should always ponder things ("an unexplored life is not worth living").  Sometimes, it's healthier to find other hobbies.

Teri Anne

[RuthChambers]

I know transsexuals with regret, regret for what might have been, regret for their acquired personal circumstances, regret for the pain and suffering their transition did to those around them, but NONE haev regreted their transition.

Employment works; cash comes in, status provided, a reason to get up in the morning, the opportunity to meet other people, a future I just wish more in the trans "community" would help others through find work. I've helped 4 transsexual people find work and I've seen the difference it has made to their lives.

Ruth

[Melissa]

I think I see an opening in the wall.  Hmm, wow.  What a pretty seashore.

Yep, that's shell beach.

Melissa

[Thundra]

Well, well,

look at what I stumbled onto at the Advocate:

http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid42890.asp

I found this quote interesting:

This evaluation, unfortunately, favors those who can best convince "the system" of their need; thereby it occasionally disqualifies some who need the surgery while qualifying some who don't.

But even if that is so, the statistics she quotes list that somewhere around an average of 1% of those that undergo surgical intervention express later regret.

Now, is it just me, or doesn't it seem rather strange that 1% of candidates force the other 99% to march thru a veritable gauntlet, or minefield. I have to believe, that as time goes on, and the phobia against surgical intervention declines in the new generation of kids, that this process will one day be one hell of a lot easier on the participants.

I will go further out on a limb, and guess that at some point, when people in this process are viewed simply as men and women with a need for surgical correction, and not as transgendered males and transgendered females that are undergoing surgery that mutilates their body, that the process will be reversed: surgery first, transition second.

Why? Because men don't have to prove they can behave like men before they can have no breasts, and have a penis, and women don't have to prove they can behave as a woman before they can have breasts and a vagina. It is my observation, that if people had surgical correction before they transition, that it would remove 90% of the problems or other issues that arise from transitioning. Especially the bathroom thing.

Just my POV.

[Yvonne]

Also, it's possible that an inappropriate candidate may attempt to transition. If he (or she) is convinced they are transsexual and learn the right things to say to a gender therapist, a non-transsexual might slip through the screening process and obtain GRS, especially if they don't express their doubts or outright lie to their therapist.

[Kate]

Also, it's possible that an inappropriate candidate may attempt to transition. If he (or she) is convinced they are transsexual and learn the right things to say to a gender therapist, a non-transsexual might slip through the screening process and obtain GRS, especially if they don't express their doubts or outright lie to their therapist.

Ya know, I've been wondering about that. My HRT letter mentions, amoungst other things, "I see no sexual motivations for Kate's desire..."

And I kept thinking, "How does she REALLY know that?" Couldn't I just be hiding it, telling her what she needed to hear, "skirting" (lol) around the issue? I mean I've certainly learned enough from you kids to piece together a valid story.

Or would an experienced therapist pick up on that, and know something was amiss?

Or would someone with persistent erotic motivations find it difficult to hide anyway, such as showing up for therapy in lingerie carrying a whip?

(not that such things should necessarily disqualify someone - just saying it seems to be a red flag that therapists look for)

Kate

[Melissa]

It's all in the detail Kate.  If you just said to a therapist "I knew I was female since I was 4 and I had an awful childhood and was beat up and called a sissy and I was only attracted to men and then I did a bunch of things to prove I was a man and then I finally needed to transition", you have basically told a "classic" story.  It's when you tell about the details of your life that it paints a much clearer picture.  When I went to get my second therapy letter, I did a good job summarizing it all and was saying things like how coming to know I was female was a complex thing and how there were different phases in my life that when looked at as a whole you could tell.  Another thing that can help is you just have a very female demeanor to you.  Anybody can tell a therapist they are TS, but can they describe it in minute detail and come off as a completely believable woman?  There's a lot to it.

Melissa

[katia]

Also, it's possible that an inappropriate candidate may attempt to transition. If he (or she) is convinced they are transsexual and learn the right things to say to a gender therapist, a non-transsexual might slip through the screening process and obtain GRS, especially if they don't express their doubts or outright lie to their therapist.

if someone is [convinced] they are transsexual, why on earth would they fabricate stories and lie to their therapists?  isn't that worse than committing suicide?  why would any non-transsexual [choose] to have grs?   

[Melissa]

if someone is [convinced] they are transsexual, why on earth would they fabricate stories and lie to their therapists?  isn't that worse than committing suicide?  why would any non-transsexual [choose] to have grs?   

Right, if they weren't a transsexual before and transitioned, they would certainly be a transsexual after that, but in the other direction.  Why would any non-transsexual want to become one?

Melissa

[Dennis]

There's one in Australia who's suing his doctors, even though he fudged his answers the second time round of psychiatric testing. The first time, he was rejected:

http://www.realityresources.com/alanfinch.htm

I hope he loses.

Dennis

[katia]

There's one in Australia who's suing his doctors, even though he fudged his answers the second time round of psychiatric testing. The first time, he was rejected:

http://www.realityresources.com/alanfinch.htm

Dennis

this is a joke!  people like [him] shouldn't be entitled to anything.

I hope he loses.

lol, so do i

[Melissa]

There's one in Australia who's suing his doctors, even though he fudged his answers the second time round of psychiatric testing. The first time, he was rejected:

http://www.realityresources.com/alanfinch.htm

I hope he loses.

Dennis

People like this make me sick.  HE decides to lie and then blames everyone else just so he doesn't have to accept responsibility for his actions.  In doing so, it harms all "real" transsexuals as a whole.  People like this are actually on of the reasons my parents are having a hard time accepting this.  They are worried I will have the same regrets, but if anything, I have been *extremely* honest with people.  I'm sorry, people who regret transitioning enough to detransition should be shot.  They are only a waste of oxygen.

Melissa

[HelenW]

I wish Mr. Finch would be laughed out of the courtroom.  And it sickens me that Leach and his crew are using this "arch manipulator" as an example.  And where did that 10% dissatisfaction statistic come from?

And the friend who outed Mr Finch as a pathological liar is accused of suffering from, "the hellish emotional confusion which results from crossing gender lines." 

I have a high level of suspicion of the veracity of anything that is on that site.  I think Mr. Leach is an exploiter and a thief who preys on the insecurity and internalized worthlessness that trans people feel for his own gain.

helen

[Nikki_W]

I'm sorry, people who regret transitioning enough to detransition should be shot.  They are only a waste of oxygen.

I have to disagree with this. While being in that position would have to be a horrible mistake, people do make mistakes even with major decisions. The problem comes not when someone recognizes a mistake and detransitions, it comes when someone blames others for their mistake.

[Melissa]

I'm sorry, people who regret transitioning enough to detransition should be shot.  They are only a waste of oxygen.

I have to disagree with this. While being in that position would have to be a horrible mistake, people do make mistakes even with major decisions. The problem comes not when someone recognizes a mistake and detransitions, it comes when someone blames others for their mistake.

Ok, I didn't state exactly what I meant.  I meant people who regret transitioning enough to detransition and then make some federal case about it to get money at the expense of all other transsexuals because they don't want to accept responsibility for their own actions.  So I agree with you.

Melissa

[Dennis]

I wish Mr. Finch would be laughed out of the courtroom.  And it sickens me that Leach and his crew are using this "arch manipulator" as an example.  And where did that 10% dissatisfaction statistic come from?

And the friend who outed Mr Finch as a pathological liar is accused of suffering from, "the hellish emotional confusion which results from crossing gender lines." 

I have a high level of suspicion of the veracity of anything that is on that site.  I think Mr. Leach is an exploiter and a thief who preys on the insecurity and internalized worthlessness that trans people feel for his own gain.

helen

I agree with you Helen, about being suspicious of anything on that site. I have seen Mr. Finch in other contexts though. He was featured on a Fifth Estate program about transitioning. In addition to being a liar, he is also a media whore.

Dennis

[HelenW]

In addition to being a liar, he is also a media whore.

Maybe we need to introduce this guy to Annie Coulter?  Whaddaya think?  >

h

[diane valerie]

My recollection is that Renee Richards, in her book, said that she was "obssesed" with transitioning and that there was no way of avoiding it.  I don't recall her saying that she was "happy" about transitioning but, rather, it was simply something that needed to be done.

I'm in that camp, also.  As a post-op (since 1999), I would never tell anyone that I was "happy" about transitioning but rather that it was something I needed to do, like breathing.  "Happy" puts too much of a cheerful slant on it and I think it may mislead some who transition into thinking that there is some nirvanna or Shangri-la at the end of being post-op.

The world is far too bigotted for me to ever be truly "happy" about my decision.  I will always wonder, as Renee Richards wrote in her autobiography, why I felt compelled to do it.  She, despite her knowledge of medicine, couldn't explain it and neither can I.  That said, I would never go back -- that male growth was abhorrant to me.  In that sense, being post-op is a success.  There is NO REGRET about what I am now, anatomically.  Unfortunately, I have to live in the world and I get sad when I read about other post-op TS's having difficulty.  Added to that, I've faced discrimination even after being post-op.  Being post-op is, unfortunately, like becoming part of a group that many in the world hate.  So, even if my personal life is going along well, I feel sadness about the bigotted world.  Transitioning, for me, hasn't ended that sadness.  As the philosopher Dunne said, I am not an island.  "Don't ask for whom the bell tolls.  It tolls for thee."  When bad sh**t happens to others, it hits me.  It feels like a personal insult or assault, even though it's not directed at me. 

I'm glad that others who are post-op find it to be an "urban myth" that there are unhappy post-ops.  Psychology sessions in transitioning help in dealing with a bigotted world but, of course, there's no way to stop the hate.  Like the AAA adage suggests, we have to ignore things we can't do anything about.  For me, the operation relieved gender dysphoria but there is, unfortunately, no escaping the unhappiness that the world can shovel our way.  Caveat emptor, buyer beware.

Teri Anne

 it wa sgood reading your comments terri ann i can relae with how you feel i am about read to transition into this life gone back and forth with the hormones  and  i feel like its a curse  i get closer every time  i want to be able to go all the way with out feeling guilty  nice picture by the way you look  beautfull  i like to go by diane valrie