So... what is the big deal if people like you because you are "trans"?

[MsDazzler]

This question has bugged me after reading various posts about scorning ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and the defensive statements such as "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans" or "I wouldn't date someone because h/she liked me for being trans", etc...

To me, that presents a fundamental paradox and illogical reasoning -

1) Paradox being - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans". You are trans, like it or not, and it is a fundamental part of who you are. You can't separate "me" and "trans" as two mutually exclusive qualities.

It is akin to saying - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being black" You cannot avoid being black just as you cannot avoid being trans in people's eyes.

2) Illogical reasoning - being trans is much just a physical part of you as being Asian or having curly hair. I ve got many many men who were attracted to me because I am Asian or fell in love with my curly hair. It is a part of attraction package. I cannot tell someone, "No, you cant date me because you told me you like Asians".

I honestly dont see what the big fuss is all about . IMHO, we should be grateful that we even have people interested in us, even if it is because of our trans statuses.

[stldrmgrl]

I don't have a problem with someone knowing I'm trans, though I do feel later in life I'll want to attempt a somewhat stealth lifestyle... Anyway, my issue is someone liking me for something I am rather than the way I am.  Eh, confusing probably...

Somethings I am:  White, short, petite, trans, etc.
The way I am:  Caring, understanding, open-minded, kind, affectionate, sense of humor, etc.

So, specific to being trans; if someone likes me because I'm trans, that's no different than someone saying they like me because I'm petite.  Eventually without someone finding me attractive due to the way I am, one can find my physical attributes attractive all they'd like; I would be flattered and appreciative, but hardly interested.

[MsDazzler]

I don't have a problem with someone knowing I'm trans, though I do feel later in life I'll want to attempt a somewhat stealth lifestyle... Anyway, my issue is someone liking me for something I am rather than the way I am.  Eh, confusing probably...

Somethings I am:  White, short, petite, trans, etc.
The way I am:  Caring, understanding, open-minded, kind, affectionate, sense of humor, etc.

So, specific to being trans; if someone likes me because I'm trans, that's no different than someone saying they like me because I'm petite.  Eventually without someone finding me attractive due to the way I am, one can find my physical attributes attractive all they'd like; I will be flattered and appreciative, but hardly interested.

That is my point exactly - why turn down someone if h/she likes you because you are trans and is attracted to you for that?

I understand if someone fetishize you and reduce you to a sex object like a "chick with dick" and focuses on your genitals as the sole of attradtion. I get that totally.

You fought hard to become the transwoman you are; celebrate and take pride in it as one of the attributes that people find attractive about you, IMHO.

I m proud of being deaf, and I already face a lot of discrimination and oppression from ignorant hearing people... so  I rejoice when people want to befriend me beause they say, "I ve always loved deaf people and think sign language is cool!" or men telling me , "I think that is sexy that you re deaf". That shows acceptance and progression.

I guess I do know what I am talking about , after all, huh?

[Annah]

Because, for me, being transsexual is just a label for society to explain that I was once a man and now I am a woman. I see myself as a female. Transsexual is simply a label in which I identify to a select few to explain the process in which I became a woman. In an ideal society, I honestly believe there would be no need for such labels as labels simply describe something that sets us apart. I, personally, have no desire to be set apart but be part of the "within."

As a result, I have no desire for someone to date me because I am transsexual because, for me, that person will be dating a label in which I am attached to.

I have absolutely nothing against the women who transitioned but want to keep their genitalia so please do not misunderstand but, prior to my surgery, I had no desire for a man (or woman) to want me because I was a woman with a penis. Or a "Transsexual."

[sonopoly]

I'm an Asian woman and I've met many guys who only date Asian women.  It never really bothered me.  I don't think I was fetishized though, I just think some guys are attracted to the way Asian women look and they like their background and culture.

I can understand how trans people might not want to be "chased" or fetishized, though I imagine that there are guys who are attracted to transwomen for reasons other than just the sexual component.  Maybe there's something about the male/female experience transwomen have gone through.  I think transwomen are probably more sensitive and compassionate than GGs, due to their unique experiences.  I would say at least give the guys a chance and don't assume that it's a sex/fetish thing.

[Emi]

mmm ..well iw ill   always like more be wanted as a transexual girl     rather  a guy... :/  ...be wanted as a guy...usually suck...at least for me

[eli77]

If they see me being trans as a bonus, that's cool. And I want my partner to like my body, for whatever reason. As long as they like other things about me.

I disagree with being grateful though. I'm pretty ->-bleeped-<-ing awesome (modest too, obviously). No need to be grateful.

[stldrmgrl]

That is my point exactly - why turn down someone if h/she likes you because you are trans and is attracted to you for that?

I understand if someone fetishize you and reduce you to a sex object like a "chick with dick" and focuses on your genitals as the sole of attradtion. I get that totally.

You fought hard to become the transwoman you are; celebrate and take pride in it as one of the attributes that people find attractive about you, IMHO.

I m proud of being deaf, and I already face a lot of discrimination and oppression from ignorant hearing people... so  I rejoice when people want to befriend me beause they say, "I ve always loved deaf people and think sign language is cool!" or men telling me , "I think that is sexy that you re deaf". That shows acceptance and progression.

I guess I do know what I am talking about , after all, huh?

We agree that being trans is a part of us, however, I feel we part ways beyond the simple understanding of this.  If someone finds me attractive and I am open about being trans and he says that doesn't bother him (implying it was something else that first made him attracted to me), then I have no issues.  If someone finds me attractive and I am open about being trans and he says that's the reason he wants to hook up, then I most definitely have an issue.

[MsDazzler]

If they see me being trans as a bonus, that's cool. And I want my partner to like my body, for whatever reason. As long as they like other things about me.

I disagree with being grateful though. I'm pretty ->-bleeped-<-ing awesome (modest too, obviously). No need to be grateful.

Oh, definitely - we must not settle for what we can get, we must demand the best that we can get! No pity or charity from people who want to give us mercy ->-bleeped-<-s * shudders *

I've had an ->-bleeped-<- tell me online at OkCupid , "So you are trans huh? bet no one wants to f*** you but babe, I'll do it"

[MsDazzler]

Because, for me, being transsexual is just a label for society to explain that I was once a man and now I am a woman. I see myself as a female. Transsexual is simply a label in which I identify to a select few to explain the process in which I became a woman. In an ideal society, I honestly believe there would be no need for such labels as labels simply describe something that sets us apart. I, personally, have no desire to be set apart but be part of the "within."

As a result, I have no desire for someone to date me because I am transsexual because, for me, that person will be dating a label in which I am attached to.

I have absolutely nothing against the women who transitioned but want to keep their genitalia so please do not misunderstand but, prior to my surgery, I had no desire for a man (or woman) to want me because I was a woman with a penis. Or a "Transsexual."

But that is paradoxical if you are going to be open about being trans - a man cannot date you without accepting you as trans as a part of the "attractiveness" package.

[MsDazzler]

We agree that being trans is a part of us, however, I feel we part ways beyond the simple understanding of this.  If someone finds me attractive and I am open about being trans and he says that doesn't bother him (implying it was something else that first made him attracted to me), then I have no issues.  If someone finds me attractive and I am open about being trans and he says that's the reason he wants to hook up, then I most definitely have an issue.

well honestly I don't see the big deal because like i said, I ve been approached by guys who solely like me because I am Asian (exotic, slanted eyes, the Far East whole thing) and I accept that as a part of the "attraction" package that I come in. How is that any different from me being attractive to them because I am trans (something different, uniquness, etc)?

Being trans is a part of that package and I would be delusional to think that it hardly play any role in my "attraction" package to someone.

[Nurse With Wound]

Because, for me, being transsexual is just a label for society to explain that I was once a man and now I am a woman. I see myself as a female. Transsexual is simply a label in which I identify to a select few to explain the process in which I became a woman. In an ideal society, I honestly believe there would be no need for such labels as labels simply describe something that sets us apart. I, personally, have no desire to be set apart but be part of the "within."

As a result, I have no desire for someone to date me because I am transsexual because, for me, that person will be dating a label in which I am attached to.

I have absolutely nothing against the women who transitioned but want to keep their genitalia so please do not misunderstand but, prior to my surgery, I had no desire for a man (or woman) to want me because I was a woman with a penis. Or a "Transsexual."

Pretty much this.

I haven't had SRS yet. And I don't like my willy, and as such I don't see why I should be liked for having a willy. And when I get SRS, these "->-bleeped-<-s" as they're known will have no further interest.

For me, I shouldn't be proud to be trans, but be proud of being a woman.

[MsDazzler]

Pretty much this.

I haven't had SRS yet. And I don't like my willy, and as such I don't see why I should be liked for having a willy. And when I get SRS, these "->-bleeped-<-s" as they're known will have no further interest.

For me, I shouldn't be proud to be trans, but be proud of being a woman.

I already stated that being fetishizsed and chased for your penis is obviously a turn-off. That is very different from men who liked you and you being trans was a part of that deal.

Also, it is really hiding your head in the sand if you say I am proud to be a woman, but not be proud to be trans. Like it or not and for better or worse, both have a marriage for life. You are a woman and trans.

And is there anything wrong with being proud about who you are, and that includes being trans?

And for the record, it is the out and proud transgender people from the LGBT community that have been lobbying and fighting for our legal rights and protection. Stealth people have done squat for us in terms of obtaining rights and etc because they are not proud nor want people to know.

It is ironic that after some famous transgender people were outed, they ended up becoming public figures and advocates for equal rights.

[Annah]

But that is paradoxical if you are going to be open about being trans - a man cannot date you without accepting you as trans as a part of the "attractiveness" package.

If he is dating me simply because I am trans...no. I wont date him. If he dates me because he finds me attractive and I find him attractive, I do not tell him I am trans until after he asks me out. This way, i know he isn't wanting to sleep with me because "I am a chick with a dick." I will know he likes me all around rather than some external appendage hanging between my legs.

I don't become open about being trans to a guy I like until he asks me out first. Makes the biggest difference in the world. i separate the wheat from the chaff that way. My BF had no idea I was born male until he asked me out. We've been dating for several months now, and I feel better knowing it wasn't pursing a label. Rather, he was pursuing me.

[Bishounen]

This question has bugged me after reading various posts about scorning ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and the defensive statements such as "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans" or "I wouldn't date someone because h/she liked me for being trans", etc...

To me, that presents a fundamental paradox and illogical reasoning -

1) Paradox being - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans". You are trans, like it or not, and it is a fundamental part of who you are. You can't separate "me" and "trans" as two mutually exclusive qualities.

It is akin to saying - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being black" You cannot avoid being black just as you cannot avoid being trans in people's eyes.

2) Illogical reasoning - being trans is much just a physical part of you as being Asian or having curly hair. I ve got many many men who were attracted to me because I am Asian or fell in love with my curly hair. It is a part of attraction package. I cannot tell someone, "No, you cant date me because you told me you like Asians".

I honestly dont see what the big fuss is all about . IMHO, we should be grateful that we even have people interested in us, even if it is because of our trans statuses.

Well, there are good "->-bleeped-<-likers"out there, but the good ones are not the so called ->-bleeped-<-s but the so called Admirers, as they do not care a fluff about what the T-person have or not have between the legs, while the so called ->-bleeped-<-->-bleeped-<-, on the other hand, is only interested in whether the person "has the tools" or not, and if it is "functional". If the ->-bleeped-<- doesn't, then the ->-bleeped-<- runs, no matter how beautiful or great personality She/He has.

Nikki explains it further at 00:43: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8ifY6U7DRxM#t=43s

[Annah]

Also, it is really hiding your head in the sand if you say I am proud to be a woman, but not be proud to be trans. Like it or not and for better or worse, both have a marriage for life. You are a woman and trans.

Many trans will disagree with you. I am one of them. I only identify as trans on this website and a very select few public arenas. In "real life" I am seen as a woman and I see myself as a woman. As I said in earlier posts, I am not ashamed of the label "transsexual" or "transgender" but I have come to a point in my life where the label no longer defines me. My birthcertificate, driver's license, passport, and all other paperwork currently says female. I prefer to be identified as female. The label "transsexual" for me is a label for an imperfect society to explain who this woman isn't a "real woman"...there must be a past to her.

Plus transsexual pretty much means a man who transitions to female (and vice versa). Well, I'm done with transitioning so I do not even follow the logic behind it anymore. I am not ashamed of my past but I don't use it as a dating leverage either.

And is there anything wrong with being proud about who you are, and that includes being trans?

nope....but show me a man who wants you as a trans because of your personality rather than the thing between your legs. I haven't met one. Not saying they do not exist, but I am saying the ratio is pretty large between the men who want you for your transsexual personality versus your transsexual physical situation.

And for the record, it is the out and proud transgender people from the LGBT community that have been lobbying and fighting for our legal rights and protection. Stealth people have done squat for us in terms of obtaining rights and etc because they are not proud nor want people to know.

That's also not entirely accurate. I worked alongside Joe at HRC. Hell, I even had martinis with Al Franken and Joe Lieberman at a party last January to push the awareness of transgender rights in America. Just because I want to be seen as a woman does not mean I cower in the shadows of transsexualism.

Here are some pics from that party:

Jennifer Knapp, her partner and I talking to a US Representative about Trans rights


Some of the people who were there that day to sign the HRC flag


A took a pic of those who made the party happen. Joe is in the center:


Also me at a trans rally in DC sponsored by the HRC:


So even tho I do not identify myself as trans everywhere I go or even identify myself as trans to men before they ask me out on a date does not mean I do not go to trans rights and activism issues. I spoke to the national emporium of Seminaries last year in Philadelphia concerning Transsexual Seminarians. So no, I don't hide. I just don't walk around with a neon sign saying "look at me, Im trans" and I certainly don't do it as a guide to pick up and date people either.

I also walked in DC for Ministers against LGBT violence last May.

It is ironic that after some famous transgender people were outed, they ended up becoming public figures and advocates for equal rights.

I am hardly famous, but for me, I am out in the public to a certain extent and i value my privacy. Also, do not condemn those who had been living stealth. At least they made something good out of the situation they were placed in.

Be careful with your ideas....because there is a such thing as out and proud transsexual elitism who puts down others because they don't do what others do just as there is with stealth tanssexualism elitism.

[Natkat]

This question has bugged me after reading various posts about scorning ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and the defensive statements such as "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans" or "I wouldn't date someone because h/she liked me for being trans", etc...

To me, that presents a fundamental paradox and illogical reasoning -

1) Paradox being - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being trans". You are trans, like it or not, and it is a fundamental part of who you are. You can't separate "me" and "trans" as two mutually exclusive qualities.

It is akin to saying - "I prefer it if people like me for being me, not for being black" You cannot avoid being black just as you cannot avoid being trans in people's eyes.

2) Illogical reasoning - being trans is much just a physical part of you as being Asian or having curly hair. I ve got many many men who were attracted to me because I am Asian or fell in love with my curly hair. It is a part of attraction package. I cannot tell someone, "No, you cant date me because you told me you like Asians".

I honestly dont see what the big fuss is all about . IMHO, we should be grateful that we even have people interested in us, even if it is because of our trans statuses.

its kinda hard to explain, but as I see it its about how the "like is connected" too you and being trans.
nothing wrong with people liking you for being trans as long they also care for you as a person beyond that, we are trans but we are more than just that.

a person who think your cool and also think its fine your trans will just see it as another + in you

a person you dosent care about you unless the fact your trans, will just trew you away pretty easy since you dosent mean anything to them really, and there only interested in that one fact.
---

[eli77]

Does it all have to be so either/or?

For me, transsexualism is just the condition I was born with. I'm no more proud of it than I am of my migraines. On the other hand I am proud that I'm breathing, that I transitioned, that I've made myself into a creature that I can respect through a pretty heroic force of will. So I'm not exactly proud to BE trans, but I'm proud of what I've done with that. I get why someone might be attracted to my history. It's pretty intense.

As to the other... no I'm not out and proud. But all the important people in my life know about my history - my friends, my family, etc. Everyone else... not so much. Honestly, I'd like to be out. But the world we live in... I can't trust people to see me as ME after I tell them, unless they already know me. So that keeps my mouth shut. If things were different... I'm out about being gay, but not about being trans. At least for now. I am still pretty young and newly transitioned, lots of time to change my mind if I want. And it's much harder to go from not-stealth to stealth, than from stealth to not-stealth. So partly I'm just keeping my options open.

[tekla]

1.  I was told once by a woman that I only liked her for sex and I replied that in the very least it gives her a leg up on half the people in the world.

2.  It could be that not only is this 'adventure/quest/transformation' the MOST interesting thing about you, but also, for a lot of us it's the ONLY interesting thing about us.

3.  Being a bear of very little brain it pretty much stops working right at: do they like me?  I really don't care about why.

4.  I don't date, I just sleep around a lot, so that entire issues misses me.

5. Toasters should come with instruction manuals, people should not.  So people that have some sort of 'magic list' of things you can and can not like them for (and often special handling instructions too boot) frequently come back to these threads and say: I wish I had real friends.

[envie]

recently a guy who I went out with and came out to him said this"

"I have to figure out if I'd want to date you in spite or because of your trans status. I'd rather not do it just out of curiosity for what would it be like to be with someone who is trans".

I really appreciated his honesty and it kind of summons it up for me what kind of a guy I'd like to be with. With some one who is interested in me beyond the trans status, and not because of it.