question for androgynes

[Z7Z]

I feel awkward asking this, but I've been thinking about it for the past few days and I'd like your insight.

When I decided I was definitely going to transition to male, I thought a lot about it. At first I was hesitant, not just because it's expensive to transition, could (and did) lose friends, family, job... blah blah blah... but also because I thought that even if I did transition, I might still not feel completely happy with the way others perceive me. But I would rather be seen as male than female, it seems closer to how I really am and I don't just mean the stereotypes either. And at the time it seemed too complicated to even consider whether I was androgynous/two-spirit/non-binary/etc. If this was a perfect world, or if it was simple to explain this sort of thing to people and there wasn't this obsession with "male/female" on forms, legal documents etc, I would be less hesitant to figure this whole thing out and be precisely what I am, rather than "close enough to count".

Er, what I'm trying to say is, I tell everyone I'm FtM, but I'm not really sure if I am a transman or if I'm a "masculine-identified androgyne," for lack of a better term. Most of the time I feel masculine, it feels great when people refer to me as "he" or "sir", etc. But sometimes I feel... well, not feminine, exactly, like there is never a time when it's ok for someone to refer to me as "she", but I guess it's like there's this non-gendered or bi-gendered part of me that I wish others could see and accept. I don't know exactly how to explain it, but it's like there's part of me that is just... fragile?... and not the same as my usual male self.

I mean, for the most part, people (in Utah, anyway, where I unfortunately still live) have a hard enough time figuring out what the hell a transman is, so getting anyone to understand my occasional identification as something other than male but not really female would be asking too much of 99% of the people I know. But, I guess what I'm trying to do is just figure out for myself exactly what I am, because I don't like the idea that I may be (partly) lying to myself about my gender, even if it is just to simplify things.

Sorry this post is so scattered and confusing, I really am terrible at explaining this stuff. Essentially, I just want to know if this is at all typical for androgynes to feel like this, or if I'm just totally delusional. I mean, I know you or anyone else can't tell me what my gender is or isn't, and I'm not really asking you to figure that out for me, I'm just wondering if there's anything about this that you can relate to, or if anyone has felt like this.

I think my main concern is that I'll be too afraid to be exactly what I am, and that I'll end up regretting transitioning if I just go at it without thinking enough about what I actually want. I feel awkward talking about this, but as much as I want top surgery, I'm considering getting a breast reduction rather than complete removal of my breasts. Obviously I won't do one or the other until I'm completely certain about what I want, but... yeah. 

And, whether it makes a difference or not I don't know, I'm on T and have been for a little over 7 months, quite happy with it and I intend to remain on T my entire life. 

[Bishounen]

I actually commented on this very subject just the other day in this thread; https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,113486.msg865936.html#msg865936

There are and have always been people that have had full transitions/sex changes only because they have not been aware of any other way at the time to express their feelings or identities, and therefore have chosen the "next best thing", so to speak.
The author and artist Kate Bornstein is such an example, an MTF that changed sex into a woman although she were rather an Androgyne or Genderqueer or however she identify herself, but changed her sex because she, back in those days, were not aware of any other option, just as so many other transitioners backwards in time haven't always been aware of any other alternative either.
And there are still people that are not "true" transsexuals, but nonetheless "Choose" a sex change as a "next best" alternative as they have not been informed on other types of ways they can live out their identities.
In fact, in some places of the World, gendervarianted people are still only offered free medical help if they are willing to go the whole way and have a full change, SRS included- Not if they only want hormones and/or certain bodily corrections, and I personally know persons that originally did not want SRS at all, but had it anyways as they said that they otherwise could not afford medical help and hormones(Which I thought was an extremely stupid thing to do, but nonetheless, they did it anyways. Perhaps they turned out happy anyways, I don't know).

So, it is very important to think through something like this in just the way you do now, as it is a drastic and life-altering decision, so it is really good that you are "psychoanalyzing" yourself as you do, so that you have given the final decision, whatever that may turn out to be, as much thought as possible, without having rushed into it.

[Sevan]

Firstly, hey Z7Z Welcome to the Unicorn forest!

Thanks for your post here. Good stuff. Lots of good thoughts.

Easiest way to answer your thoughts here would be to just say...yes! Absolutely. To all of it.

Longer answer? Hmmm perhaps telling you a bit about myself might serve us well.

I'm Sevan, I've been on T for almost two years now, I had breast reduction surgery almost 3 months ago and I present in the world as female, but my identity is most definitely androgyn. For me it fluxuates. I find myself feeling very feminine some days (or even as short as some moments) I've found myself feeling all out masculine some days (or as short as a few moments...similar to my feminine experience) and then some times I've found myself trying to grasp gender at all...unable to understand it, or quantify it or place myself in either "category" as you've expressed your feeling of being more "fragile" at times.

I see gender like this:


You could be any pixel within that circle. Somewhere on the outside, somewhere along the edge (either the "pink" side, the "blue" side) or some where within the middle...ANYWHERE within the middle.

Kudos to you for fully exploring yourself!

[espo]

 bishounen and sevan said pretty much what I feel so I'll just welcome you to the forest. I'm not really content with being gender fluid, I would much rather be one way or the other, male or female but it might be a case of wanting what I don't have because so many here really enjoy who they are. I do think you are wise to not make any surgical moves until you feel more confident or more sure of things.

[Pica Pica]

Welcome,

I tend to veer on the side on being honest with your ownself and letting everyone else work you out for themselves, if they can be bothered. In my experience most people can't and just accept you as you are, which is how I want to be accepted anyway. As such the andro thing is a great simplifier, because I can accept those who don't see me as I see myself as mistaken - rather then myself being a failed whatever.

[Jaimey]

Welcome,

I tend to veer on the side on being honest with your ownself and letting everyone else work you out for themselves, if they can be bothered. In my experience most people can't and just accept you as you are, which is how I want to be accepted anyway. As such the andro thing is a great simplifier, because I can accept those who don't see me as I see myself as mistaken - rather then myself being a failed whatever.

Well said, dear.  Definitely don't let anyone else influence you when it comes to these things.  It takes time, but in the end, that's the best way to be happy.

[foosnark]

Even though I don't really agree with the idea some people have that "everyone is bisexual" I do sometimes think everyone is androgyne.

Though I suppose it is more correct to say that gender is an epiphenomenon, an emergent property that isn't based on any single real thing but a combination of many perceptions and expectations.  We are taught that it aligns one of two ways, and further that it aligns with physical sex.  Some people's experience is different from what society says the norm is.  If there were no binary social norm, I don't think the majority of people would still wedge themselves solidly into one corner or the other.

(FWIW, I think a lot of things people experience in life are epiphenomena, including consciousness and God(s).  Not being "real" in terms of scientifically observable phenomena doesn't mean something isn't relevant or useful though.

[Pica Pica]

Foo,

I'd agree with everything you say there, down to the note about the relevance of epiphenomena.
I'm certainly moving away from chemical brain structure &c.

[caseyyy]

I think the best approach is to go with what feels right on a body level. I won't be happy being pushed into the 'male' box either, but it's closer to how I feel my body should be, and it's more comfortable overall than female box.