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GOP Says Christians Disciminated Against More Than Gays

Started by Shana A, January 09, 2012, 09:17:51 AM

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justmeinoz

If they are talking about other countries where being a Christian can get you killed by Fascists pretending to be Muslims for example, yes.  But in the USA?  Seems to me they are trying to confuse people, in a desperate attempt to get into the White House. 

Karen.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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dalebert

Quote from: Jamie D on January 15, 2012, 02:43:51 AM
Every country in the world has established citizenship criteria.

Yeah, I'm aware. It's on my list of things that people have been doing for ages that give me the heebee jeebees. I'm not of the mindset that something is moral or right because it's been done for a long time. I was taught in school that America was the exception--the big melting pot where everyone was welcome as long as you respect the choices and freedoms of others but I later realized that it was just rhetoric to make us feel superior so we could feel better about treating other people who aren't in the "exclusive club" like crap and even killing them for stupid reasons.

tekla

the big melting pot where everyone was welcome as long as you respect the choices and freedoms of others but I later realized that it was just rhetoric to make us feel superior so we could feel better about treating other people who aren't in the "exclusive club" like crap and even killing them for stupid reasons

Perhaps, but it's still the easiest place on earth to immigrate to and get citizenship.  If you want hard, try Switzerland, which is almost impossible.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Berserk

Quote from: Michelle. on January 11, 2012, 10:53:30 PM
His referring to the oppression of Christian minorities in places like China, Iran, the Middle East and Africa.

Oppression in this case means de facto ethnic cleansing. Few, if any, sizable Christian population remain in Muslim nations. Churches have to be monitored, really run, by the Chinese communists. Whole groups are being burned alive in Nigeria.

Etc etc etc.

Quote from: justmeinoz on January 16, 2012, 04:51:34 AM
If they are talking about other countries where being a Christian can get you killed by Fascists pretending to be Muslims for example, yes.  But in the USA?  Seems to me they are trying to confuse people, in a desperate attempt to get into the White House. 

Karen.

Uhh... and you people do realise that in "other countries where being a Christian can get you killed by Fascists pretending to be Muslims" gays and lesbians are also killed or imprisoned for being gays and lesbians, yes? Not to mention corrective rape of lesbians in many of these countries.

It isn't a competition, however, GOP types in the US like to play the victim when it is typically they or other religious fundamentalists who cause the oppression of others. Whether those "others" are discriminated against based on sexuality, sex, religion or otherwise.
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dalebert

The wingnuts really do engage in some logistical acrobatics to twist things around.

"You discriminate against me by not respecting my rights! And by rights, I mean my right to infringe on your rights and provide privileges at your expense to those who engage in behavior I find morally acceptable."

Joelene9

Quote from: tekla on January 16, 2012, 02:56:16 AM
The Framers of the US Constitution, in 1787, felt that it was important that the President, in his (originally, or her), role as Commander-in-Chief, have no other allegiances.  It was then, and is now, a wise requirement.

It never seemed to bother them much before a brother made it into the White House.  Jackson would not have qualified under some of the 'opinions' offered on the topic, nor would have Chester A. Arthur.  But since it's never been adjudicated by the Supremes, there is no authoritative ruling to point to.

And I'm not even sure about George Washington, John Adams ,Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe and John Quincy Adams - none of whom were born in the United States.
Here's the exception written in the U. S. Constitution:

  No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

  Joelene
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Jamie D

Quote from: tekla on January 16, 2012, 02:56:16 AM
The Framers of the US Constitution, in 1787, felt that it was important that the President, in his (originally, or her), role as Commander-in-Chief, have no other allegiances.  It was then, and is now, a wise requirement.

It never seemed to bother them much before a brother made it into the White House.  Jackson would not have qualified under some of the 'opinions' offered on the topic, nor would have Chester A. Arthur.  But since it's never been adjudicated by the Supremes, there is no authoritative ruling to point to.

And I'm not even sure about George Washington, John Adams ,Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe and John Quincy Adams - none of whom were born in the United States.

Not true.  The Framers of the Constitution considered the question and exempted all those born prior to the ratification, as they were part of the founding generation and had paid for their rights with blood.

Joelene9 quotes the appropriate clause, above

The "natural born citizen" issue has been resurrected several times in the last half century.  Was Barry Goldwater a "natural born citizen," having been born in Arizona Territory?  Was George Romney eligible, due to his birth in Mexico to American citizen parents?  In the recent election, the issue was first raised about John McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal Zone whie his father was stationed there.

To suggest that the issue is ripe because Obama is black, is a misnomer.  The issue exists because Obama's father was not a citizen, and passed his British, and later, Kenyan, citizenship to his son.  And complicating the issue is Obama's Indonesian citizenship through his step-father, and the possibility Obama claimed foreign student status in college to obtain funding.

You are correct that the original meaning of the NBC clause has never been directly addressed by the US Supreme Court; however, it has been mentioned more than once.

From Minor v Happersatt:

"The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens."

This passage suggests the USSC would have "doubts" about the natural born citizenship of Mr. Obama.
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pebbles

Quote from: dalebert on January 16, 2012, 05:25:28 PM
The wingnuts really do engage in some logistical acrobatics to twist things around.

"You discriminate against me by not respecting my rights! And by rights, I mean my right to infringe on your rights and provide privileges at your expense to those who engage in behavior I find morally acceptable."
It's more that they look in the mirror and they see jesus they love to play the martyr so makes them think they are holy or on a biblical crusade.
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