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Drag bar dress code?

Started by Kate, March 16, 2007, 04:48:22 PM

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Attis

Hmm another reason not to go to bars now. :( Oh well...

-- Bridget
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lilith

Quote from: Julie Marie on March 17, 2007, 04:44:37 PMI'm not much a fan of some drag queens because I feel they give us a bad name and mock women.  Men showing up in nightwear with 5 o'clock shadows hurt our image.  They are very obviously male.  When main-streamers see them they think this is what a transvestite/transsexual is and they tend to lump real transwomen in with them.  It's counteractive to all of us who venture out as normal women and the work we do to educate the public as to who we really are.
It certainly sounds convenient to dismiss people based on the ignorance of "main-streamers."


Presumably the rule is being applied in a relatively "common-sense" fashion (considering only the two trouble-makers have been victims of it), but it's still nonsense. In the first place, there is no such thing as "gender appropriate." If there was, though, it seems to me that the drag queens themselves would be pretty high on the list of people who don't meet the criteria. (Duhhh?)

You are a private establishment; you retain the right to deny anyone, for any reason, end of story. You do not need to invent generalized policies which on the surface would seem to affect many more people than necessary just to rid yourself of two jerks. Tell them to stay the hell away from your bar. Problem solved.
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LynnER

Most dragqueens though are GAY MALES presenting as female for a night... what this establishment seems to want to stop are the STRAIGHT MALES from comeing in wearing erotic womens clothes, being obnoxious, and not presenting as female, but male in erotic womens clothing..... 

On the other subject,  I really dont like the local GLB sceen much... they dont really have any sort of nitch for the TS person, infact I feel either unwelcome or threatened when I go to some of the GLB bars down town...  Its really wierd... Also my straight friends have had a much easyer time understanding and accepting me than the gay and lesbian ones have...  I mean seriously, I still have some fighting me on it...
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jeri

the dress code thing sounds terribly boring, and even though the intentions might not have been discriminatory, technically it is. exactly who defines "gender appropriate"? couldn't that same person just determine "appropriate"? 

back in the "olden" days, transsexual women were some of the most welcome patrons of all the nightclubs in NYC. (studio, cellar, garage, limelight, gg's)of course, we were often referred to innappropriately as "drag queens" or just "queens" or "princess", but we never had to wait to get into the hottest places. we were always waved in while all of the "straight" and "gay" men and women were left standing in line and waiting for that purple rope to be lifted. and who were those who were eventually turned away at the door? people who wouldn't fit in, and wouldn't add to the clubs ambience. they were either boringly straight and conservative or overly sexually explicit - like leather boys with their bum hanging out the back of leather chaps, crossdressers who were obviously men in dresses, or cheap whores (transsexual or gg) who wore just weren't wearing enough. of course, these clubs were amazingly successful, and once inside things could get downright bacchanalian. but that was just before aids - sigh.

as far as all of you that want to fit into the mainstream, god bless. go forth and be mundane. i am no youngster and i suppose i fit into that category as well. i no longer desire to be "fabulous" - that is, after all, something that young women are obsessed with. on the other hand, don't forget your "roots". any gender discrimination is aimed directly at our community, and we are a tiny minority. we cannot afford to ignore it.

we don't have the rights of mainstream america. no matter how well we assimilate or pass, pre-op or post-op, you are one "out" from being fired, having your marriage declared invalid, being denied the right to marry, or having your husbands ss benefits removed. as a transsexual, you have no technical right to exist in this nation. there are NO federal guidelines in writing, and no law, allowing for you to alter the gender marker on a federal identification document. there are "policies", but there is no law protecting your rights. these "policies" are passed by word of mouth, like instructions from a "mafioso" capo to a soldier. your rights change from one state to the next. there is no federal inclusion in "hate crime" laws. you are not being represented or protected. we are presently "undefined". whatever rights you enjoy can be removed with impunity. recently, the right to apply for valid immigration status as a married partner was "removed" for anyone who is transsexual. it absolutely does not matter if you are "legally" married in a state or a nation that recognizes your rights. if you are transsexual, your application will be denied.

my conclusion? i am personally offended by any reference to a "gender appropriate" notice at an establishment. it is an attack on our community, intentional or not. the word appropriate would suffice, and would benefit the club as well as the clientelle. after all, they do have a bouncer standing by the entrance and he can easily describe what appropriate means to anyone who wants to enter. no brainer.
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Rachael

i dont like this bashing of gay and lesbians as anti trans....
im the trans wellfare rep for my universities lgbt organisation, and thier all very understanding to the extent that my sexual orientation isnt considered part of this. but none of them have any sort of discrimination, and i feel if a bar wants to maintain a certain clientelle, its its business...
if they wish only people who identify female, to dress as female i can see thier point,
some random straight guy walking in in a babydoll with beer gut and trucker hat mouthing off at gay men, which is the gist i got from the letter, i can understand them not wanting...
lesbian fashion doesnt constitute chrossdressing, as women socially can, lets face it, this isnt a social norm yet, and we need to allow people to defend those who identify female to dress as first or id as men to be men), THEN once acepted move on to other areas,, we cannont simply lump this on society and demand acceptance, its not that easy. we need to look more tactically, and more politically and deal with every little gain we can, scrabble for ground.... this isnt blitzkreg, its trenchwarfare...
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Maebh

#25
Quote from: Rachael on April 26, 2007, 04:56:38 PM
this isnt blitzkreg, its trenchwarfare...

If we want to talk in term of warfare strategy and tactics we must first learn from history. :eusa_hand:

-Trench-warfare :eusa_wall: with each side entrenched in a static position bombarding each other and attacking in wastefull frontal assaults until one side is totally exhausted has been well discredited after World-war I. 
 
-Blitzkrieg :icon_pistoles: as its name implies and as proved by the outcome of World-war II and presently by the situation in Iraq is not sustainable in the long run.

-Nowadays, as shown by any victorious liberation movements all over the world the best tactic seems to be Guerilla-warfare! :icon_suspicious: Blend in, infiltrate, strike, confuse and most importantly gather a popular support base.  :icon_yes:

But these are only the wild rantings of an old Warrior Queen.  :icon_peace:


HLLL&R

Maebh
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Rachael

i dont know about you, but im happy with being a sleeper agent.... i wont be striking or confuseing anyone thanks...

hearts and minds game however, is the way forward, be the british in iraq, not the yanks, lets be a friendly face, humans, not robots with guns.... (for guns read boobs)
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cindianna_jones

Jeri,

I love the way you think!  I wish I could have met you back then! What a great time we could have had!

Cindi
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Hypatia

Quote from: Kate on March 17, 2007, 02:08:39 PMI think I realized that I've been selfishly hitching myself onto the fight for freedom of gender expression and even sexuality simply because it protects me right NOW, while I transition, while it *appears* as if I'm "gender variant" or expressing mannerisms and expressions incongruent with my sex.

But truth be told, it's not where I want to be, I don't *identify* with it - it's just a temporary phase I have to try and get through in my attempt to become boring, mundane and mainstream.

I totally relate to this, Kate. I'm coming to realize I'd been taking the same tack regarding androgyny and genderqueer-- and the reason was that I didn't pass well as a woman at first, therefore I was seen as de facto genderqueer, like it or not. So I rallied to cries of "smash the gender binary" etc.

Now that I've begun to pass adequately, and can see my future as a woman from here-- I have to admit what I really care about is just being a woman. I will continue to be an activist for LGBT equal rights, not because I feel anything in common with transgender people, but simply because it's the right thing to do. My temporary, involuntary genderqueer status has had the positive effect of opening my eyes to discrimination, and I'm not going to retire from that fight. However, I will fight on as just another woman. I tend to dress rather conservatively for a woman and I'm happy that way.

The only time I went to a drag bar was during the Atlanta conference of an LGBT group I belong to, and some gay friends of mine invited me to go along. Why not, try anything once. I was not impressed by the show or the scene, but then I don't drink and I dislike bars in general. They're boring. I very much enjoyed my visit to a lovely lesbian teahouse in Atlanta, though. I thrive on female energy, while male energy leaves me feeling excluded. I'm just all about being a woman and that's it.
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls
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Maebh

Quote from: Hypatia on August 26, 2007, 11:36:02 AM

Now that I've begun to pass adequately, and can see my future as a woman from here-- I have to admit what I really care about is just being a woman. I will continue to be an activist for LGBT equal rights, not because I feel anything in common with transgender people, but simply because it's the right thing to do. My temporary, involuntary genderqueer status has had the positive effect of opening my eyes to discrimination, and I'm not going to retire from that fight. However, I will fight on as just another woman.

Go raibh míle maith agat Thanks a million. Now that you have resolved your gender identity, now that you have reach the goal of being who you wanted to be, you could easily settle cosily in your life as an accepted woman and forget about the ones still strugling with these issues. Your empathy, your experience and commitment will always be a great asset to all fighting against discriminations.

Love, Light and Respect.

Maebh
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Hypatia

Níl a bhuiochas ort, a rún.
(You're welcome, dear.)
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls
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Maebh

Quote from: Hypatia on August 26, 2007, 01:09:16 PM
Níl a bhuiochas ort, a rún.
(You're welcome, dear.)

Gurb amhlaidh duit The same to you.

LLL&R

Maebh
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