how do we know

[AbraCadabra]

Hasn't it to do with a 'sense' of belonging?

If your sense of belonging tells you you belong to the female side of the tribe, it would be a good indicator, as much as an equal sense of not-belonging to the male side.

For myself that is the best I can come up with - and the reason for it?

I ALWAYS have been this person that I am, only that after my epiphany some things changed in priority, and sometimes I now do things in heels rather then in flats, in a skirt rather then ALWAYS in pants.

But the inner person I have grown to be over the years, has always been the same - so there is no CHANGE as such, to be all the sudden a female.

What ever I was, I am now - only I now may EXPRESS more of who this person always was and is. No more need to SUPPRESS a lot of things that the "in-closet" person had to suppress to fit into her male-mould.

Something like this :-)
Axélle

[Vanora]

You obviously don't understand what social science is or what types of questions we answer. These are philosophical questions, not social science questions. I'm a sociology major. We DO NOT seek to answer questions like this in sociology. Please don't spread misunderstanding of what social science or sociology is.

I think that is a little harsh and not entirely accurate.  Sure these questions are somewhat philosophical.  But I can see how they could intersect with sociology. How people experience things differently may impact how they behave socially and how others interact with them.  Feelings people have translate into actions.  And actions are measurable.  While I think it might be difficult to construct social science experiments to research this, I would not place it outside the bounds of being possible or unreasonable.

[Stephe]

I can't explain it, I just knew something wasn't right from when I was very young. I actually played guy fairly well and enjoyed some parts of it so at least IMHO, "wanting to play with dolls" etc isn't part of my gender ID. I raced cars, rode motorcycles and other "guy stuff" I truly enjoyed. This question you asked I don't really dwell on. I could drive myself crazy wondering why I wanted this long to jump ship on being a guy when I wanted to be a girl when I was a small child. Situations change, times change, people change. Just figure out what you need to do to be happy and do it!

[noleen111]

I also dont know... I just knew

When I was small I always imagined what it would like to a girl... I always wanted to place house with the girls... but I did boys things too..and loved it. I never wondered if there was something wrong. I grew out of this phase and was a typical guy.

then day I tried a pair of pantyhose on for the first time....

I was alone in the house I was about 16..  I remember seeing my mother pantyhose in the hamper.. a nice black pair of pantyhose..I actually stole that pair from the hamper. I just wanted to see how they looked on me as I had seen girls wearing them.. and i always thought they looked nice on legs. Before I knew it.. I had then on... I loved wearing them and something clicked inside,... maybe you should wearing these clothes as these are right for you...

The next day I tried another pair from the hamper... I bought my own pairs as time went on and kept my collection hidden,.. I never anything more until I was 21... I found a pair of black cotton panties mixed with my clothes after been in a lundramat.. they happend to be the right size. After making sure that were clean.. I tried them on with my pantyhose.. and that opened the flood gates.. I wanted to wear other clothes.. I ordered a sports bra next.. and tried that and loved it.. I loved feeling like a girl and wanted to be one inside... a few months later i ordered a dress, shoes, wig and silk underwear over the internet and when they arrived... I put it all on that evening. I shaved my legs that night for the first time

I have friend who is female, who knew about my secret (She discovered my pantyhose).. she helped with my makeup and even pierced my ears so I could wear earings. I knew then I was a girl.. and went looking for  therapist and eventually that led to hrt.

[Sam(my)I am]

It was something that always pecked away at me, since I was young(7) I didn't feel comfortable being with the other boys and preferred just spending my time with girls. This of course got odd as I got older and so got less frequent(some girls would think I was trying to flirt >_<). Don't get me wrong pretty much all my friends these days are boys and now am actually more awkward around girls.
At some point I realized I like the colors of girls clothes and wore them when I could (not around others mind you)
This then changes to outright trying to be more like other guys, I had a huge goth/rocker phase and got upset whenever I even looked remotely feminine (haircuts mainly)
Then toned it down and had an emotional breakdown that kind of knocked me out of it, I realized that no amount of anti-depressants would make me happy and that just being myself would.
I admitted to myself I liked and even envied the idea of being a girl, then tried to come to terms with sexuality?
did this mean I was gay? or was I straight? and what exactly did I like?
turns out I was bisexual which made the previous admittance easier and more frustrating.

In short I don't know, and social aspects of being a girl or a guy don't help.
I don't like cars or military stuff or even football. I didn't still don't care much for dolls or frilly things, I like books and video games and surfing (when possible) my favorite color is blue.
None of it helps define what gender I am it was and is simply how I feel.

[Jayne]

As a child I wanted to play with girls toys but because of having 2 older brothers I knew what was expected of me so I was able to hide it, when I played with my action force figures the base would really be a house in my eyes.
I found baking cakes with my mum more fun than any of the games my male friends wanted to play, baking was the only outwardly female thing I could do with my mum (I don't mean that baking isn't something men can do now, in the 80's it wasn't considered a male thing)
I also prefered wearing my mums dresses when everyone was out of the house.

As I approached my teen years I found certain boys attractive but the thought of being too intimate with them felt wrong as a boy but I knew that being with them as a girl would be right ('ve tried wording this in many ways & have had to resort to the "it's just right for me" answer for this)
This feeling has followed me throughout my life.

On the physical side of things

Throughout my life i've disliked what's between my legs, in my eyes it's wrong, messy & just shouldn't be there.
My male muscles though puny compared to most mens are repulsive, once again i'll have to just say they are wrong.
Don't get me started on hair, it's wrong, wrong, wrong & it makes me feel dirty when I see my hairy arms, legs & chest. My facial hair is even worse, I could write several paragraphs about how much I hate it.
I also get what I call PBS, Phantom Boob Syndrome, from time to time I feel as if I have breasts, I swear I can feel their weight but as soon as I look down & my eyes see a flat chest the feeling vanishes in the blink of an eye.
Does anyone else get this or am I mad?

I've always hated shopping for male clothes, nothing looks or feels right & my mum would get sick of me wearing the same clothes for years until they fell apart & would insist on dragging me out to buy new clothes. I would spend more time risking furtive glances at the ladies section than looking at the male clothes my mum was insisting on buying for me, even a quick peek as I walked past would reveal a few pieces of clothing i'd love to buy & wear.

I could go on & on but these are the main things that jump out at me & dominate my thoughts & my life.

[Jayne]

One point I forgot, as someone has been mentioned I feel more comfortable around women, around men I feel like an imposter.
Male conversations normaly bore me within seconds of starting (sport, cars & all that rubbish), the only male dominated topic that I enjoy is videogames, society is still struggling to comprehend that women do play games, that's not suprising because society has only accepted videogames as a pastime suitable for adults in the last decade.

[Jayne]

That is normal for males.

One of my older brothers was obsessed with clothes, he loved getting new clothes but he was very shallow & vain, to him what you wore said more about than you did

[Trixie]

Honestly? I don't know for certain. I suppose I really, really like being called "she", "her", etc. I've also generally fit in with girls better, and I have a strong desire to be feminine and pretty. I've always preferred stuffed animals and dolls to action figurers.

I mean, I really don't know FOR SURE, but it makes me feel so much better to think of myself as female, to style myself effeminately, and I want to transition. If that doesn't make me trans, then I'm honestly not sure what does.

[valyn_faer]

I think that is a little harsh and not entirely accurate.  Sure these questions are somewhat philosophical.  But I can see how they could intersect with sociology. How people experience things differently may impact how they behave socially and how others interact with them.  Feelings people have translate into actions.  And actions are measurable.  While I think it might be difficult to construct social science experiments to research this, I would not place it outside the bounds of being possible or unreasonable.

Are you a sociologist or a sociology major? I repeat, those are NOT sociology questions. I am a sociology major and a damn good one at that. People often misunderstand what we actually do and study in sociology. Psychology might study how feelings translate into social actions. Social psychology might look at what you're describing. However, social psychology is not sociology or "social science," but a mixture of sociology and psychology--and even then, more on the psychology side than sociology side. It might seem like splitting hairs to the lay person, but it's not to those of us actually in the field of sociology. Furthermore, we don't really construct "experiments," but rather engage in more quantitative and qualitative research. We do formulate theories and test hypotheses, but we don't do "experiments" with controls. You can't really do that with human beings--not in sociology anyway. You get into all kinds of ethical dilemmas.

As for how we know, the hormones and surgeries work. They ease the feeling of dysphoria.

[mixie]

I loathe sociology with a hot passion worse than a thousand fires.   It's all about putting people into boxes and categories.  When I think of sociology I think of Eugenics.   

[J R D]

Define "feeling like a female"...a pretty loaded question...

No kidding.   


I don't know if I feel like a female or not, I just hated my previous life and self and knew that being a woman was better for me and so far, I've been proven correct.   Some days, I do wonder if I really do feel like a female or if I am just fooling myself, but then I bark sometimes too, so....

[Nurse With Wound]

I think you're mixing up cause and effect. We don't (or I don't at least) feel female because I like feminine things, but rather I like feminine things because I am female.

Whatever gender social norms parents push on their children based on their sex does not change the child's subconscious sex.

[valyn_faer]

I loathe sociology with a hot passion worse than a thousand fires.   It's all about putting people into boxes and categories.  When I think of sociology I think of Eugenics.

Wow. . . Again, you clearly don't understand what sociology is. In fact, sociology often involves critically analyzing the boxes and categories that people place each other in. In many cases those boxes and categories are then shown to be socially constructed and that they are used by those who are in power as a means of maintaining their power and oppressing others. So basically you got it completely backwards. It's a bit like saying, "I loathe atheism with a hot passion worse than a thousand fires because it's all about believing in a one supreme god that judges everyone, watches you in a creepy manner, and tells everyone what they can and can't do."

[mixie]

No it's not.  Atheism is an opinion not a course of study.  Notice it's not called "atheology"  LOL  Sociology is responsible for  lots and lots of really screwed up crap in history.  Not the least of which being Eugenics.  I do hope you've read up on that. 

[valyn_faer]

No it's not.  Atheism is an opinion not a course of study.  Notice it's not called "atheology"  LOL  Sociology is responsible for  lots and lots of really screwed up crap in history.  Not the least of which being Eugenics.  I do hope you've read up on that.

The analogy was meant to show that you got it completely backwards and are severely misunderstanding what sociology actually is. It illustrated that quite well. That fact that atheism is not a field of study does not render the analogy useless, as the comparison was between the misunderstanding, not the nature of what is being misunderstood. You still don't understand what sociology is. Furthermore, sociology is not responsible for eugenics. Racism, classism, and a desire for those at the top to maintain their power and control are responsible for eugenics. Sorry, you've been misinformed. In fact, sociology has studied and addressed "lots of really screwed up crap," but is hardly responsible for what it has studied. But troll away.

[mixie]

Sociology is responsible for Eugenics.   Sociology is responsible for the attempt to forcibly sterilize African American women.  It is responsible for categorizing people into racism, classism, sexism etc etc etc.

You might laud it as if it's this fantastic thing.  But don't come waving the banner in front of the thread and expect that you'll be heralded for it.  You attacked the OP for suggesting that sociology has anything to do with those questions.  And frankly those questions are way too sophisticated for sociology in my opinion.

Sociology is the scientific study of society.[1] It is a social science which uses various methods of empirical investigation[2] and critical analysis[3] to develop a body of knowledge about human social activity. For many sociologists the goal is to conduct research which may be applied directly to social policy and welfare, while others focus primarily on refining the theoretical understanding of social processes. Subject matter ranges from the micro level of individual agency and interaction to the macro level of systems and the social structure.[4]

Sociology is a fake science.  It takes human anecdotes and attempts to interpret them.   Here's an amusing blog about how Sociology is Evil. LOL  Tongue in cheek of course

http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2009/03/sociology_an_ev.html

[Bridal Wish]

My story for how I "knew" I was a female:
Starting from the time i can remember I often socialized with things that were "female" such as dolls, or the color pink itself (not solid, but it gets stronger later) I actually dressed up as a girl once growing up (theres that "IT FEELS RIGHT" feeling from it) then later when i played video games, i could never pick a male model character... it didnt feel like it was me. I thought it was all a phase so i assumed it would go away. Then I started painting my nails with my cousin, I would go to the stores and I loved how all the girl cloths looked (again, thinking it would be for my' "bride" nope~) then as I got older, the feelings were still there, then i learned it was something that existed. And low and behold, I found my place here!

[valyn_faer]

Sociology is responsible for Eugenics.   Sociology is responsible for the attempt to forcibly sterilize African American women.  It is responsible for categorizing people into racism, classism, sexism etc etc etc.

You might laud it as if it's this fantastic thing.  But don't come waving the banner in front of the thread and expect that you'll be heralded for it.  You attacked the OP for suggesting that sociology has anything to do with those questions.  And frankly those questions are way too sophisticated for sociology in my opinion.




Sociology is a fake science.  It takes human anecdotes and attempts to interpret them.   Here's an amusing blog about how Sociology is Evil. LOL  Tongue in cheek of course

http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2009/03/sociology_an_ev.html

I'm not going to argue with you on this anymore. You clearly have either a personal vendetta against me or the field of sociology. Sorry to the OP for derailing the thread. To go back to the original topic, I think a more interesting question is how do cis people know they're not trans? How does a ciswoman know that she's not a man? Because she has boobs and a vagina? So do many transmen. Why does our existence need to be explained, but cis people's does not?

[inna]

Good question in original post! But contrary to OP's lack of confidence in clarity of the female feeling I have been fortunate to finally realize that all those confusing feelings I had were feminine feelings and not the male I was told I was.
I have raised my son as only mother would, his mom used to be quite put off by my mothering where I supposed to be fathering.
I felt closer and definitely more comfortable in all girl peer group rather than always resulted to positioning and uncomfortably puffing my chest to show my false manhood amongst males.
I loved women, thinking it was sexual, but as soon I had stopped testosterone infiltrating my vains I realized that such was an admiration rather then sexually inspired yearning. I wanted what they had for my self, to be female, to smell like female, to have the mirror image confirm my gender within!
Soft, sensual, vulnerable, I have walked this earth majority of my life denying her presence, I no longer reject her, she is ME in entirety, I am and always was SHE!