How can you spend 20K on SRS when people are starving?

[Cindy]

It is one of those stupid illogical questions. Like; how can you live with two healthy kidneys and one could be transplanted into a person with renal failure? Fit in many other body parts and other people.
Donating money to the poor may not get the result that is desired. If you don't believe me look at many of the countries that 'we' mainly Western countries have given to Third world countries. Their Dictators walk away with billions and the people we want to help still starve. And NO that doesn't mean we stop giving. We have to give better.

People often give with emotion. We know cases all the time. But emotion is a terrible way to make a decision, as logic is removed. And that is what these sort of posts are about. They are contrived to say: If I make you feel really bad about what I show you send me money to stop me showing it too you. It doesn't mean I'm going to help the people.

And this is the cruelty of such posts, they are designed to make you feel bad and then to give your money to scam artists.

There is nothing wrong in helping you and yours. The world and life is not just. It has never been and it never will be. We should help when we can. But make sure we are helping people who get the help.

Cindy

[Naturally Blonde]

But that aside, as I saw an NHS SRS surgeon explaining on the telly recently, you can also weigh up the cost of SRS against the financial and emotional cost of decades of depression etc. if the transgender person doesn't get the SRS they need to be happy. SRS frees people in bondage to their gender dysphoria to get on with life and do more good. Nothing happens in isolation.

So what about those of us who the NHS GIC like to boycott? how do we feel? how is our well being? after being messed around for years? well I can tell you mine is not good.

[Annah]

I've gotten a response similar to this before and need to bounce the question off of you all.  On the one hand, I feel like even though it will be next to impossible for me to raise enough money for SRS, it is something I need for my health and well being - not something that would just be nice, like getting a brow lift.  On the other hand, I think that if I ever did get enough money for SRS, I should use that money to help my family in Mexico where many struggle just for food and housing - plus, I might need money later on should I ever get sick.

Some people tell me that I am too old or its just too expensive, but then I asked my best friend how he would feel if he had a vagina instead of a penis and he said that would be awful because he "loves his penis."  I don't know that I would say that I loved any part fo my body, but having SRS is an essential part of me making the outside match who I am on the inside, but I still struggle with thoughts of "wasting money."

I had someone earlier this year do the very same thing to me. Basically, the argument was "how can you have SRS by working in the Church and not use that money to help towards soup kitchens and helping the poor" (paraphrased). This comment actually happened here at Susan's.

The simple answer is, it's my life and my journey. I believe in helping out the needy but I do not believe in completely destitute myself to do that. There's a balance. I work on my needs and I help others. If I helped others and do not help myself, then there is a problem.

[Annah]

Found the quote someone here said about my SRS:

How many homeless people etc are going to sleep out on the street or go hungry because you are asking these churches to pay this -elective- procedure for you? You should be ashamed of yourself. Save and work for this yourself

So, basically, if I had medical insurance through a secular job it would have been ok. Because I have medical insurance through my church, it was alike me taking money from the homeless.

[Jeneva]

Quality of life is key.  Self-preservation is NOT selfishness.  If we lose hope and become suicidal then society as a whole has lost what we could have helped for the rest of our lives.

Your contribution to society and its welfare is much greater than 20k over the span of 20, 30, 40, or even 50 years.  Even if you never give a dime directly to a charity, there are still indirect effects.

Isn't this very much like the airline safety speech?  If you help someone before yourself and you are overcome then they die too because you lose your grip.
"If you are travelling with a child or someone who requires assistance, secure your mask on first, and then assist the other person"

The church provided insurance is especially a bad example, because a person's service to that church for an extra 30 years is worth WAY more than 20k.  Even if she hadn't been suicide she may have walked away.



****EDIT*****
ooops sorry JustMeInOz I didn't see your post somehow and didn't meant to steal your line about airline safety.

[Beth Andrea]

A similar question was asked when we were going to the Moon...why go there, when there are sick/dying/hungry/uneducated people here?

Here's why:

Yes, there are underprivileged people everywhere. Always has been, always will be.

Yes, we should make an effort to help them--not by giving them handouts, but by giving them the means to help themselves. But, there just isn't enough money to help everyone.

Knowing that there isn't enough money to help everyone (but there are things that could be done), means that we are free to take care of our other needs...such as the need for research (including manned space flight) and personal needs, such as SRS.

Does a family need 3 BMW's and 2 Humvees? No...that would be excessive. (Unless there's at least 5 people who drive in the family).

Everything in moderation. Take care of your needs first, give to others as your means and conscience allows.

(And don't let other people "be" your conscience)

imho

[Padma]

So what about those of us who the NHS GIC like to boycott? how do we feel? how is our well being? after being messed around for years? well I can tell you mine is not good.

I obviously don't have privileged information on how doctors in different GICs around the UK assess individual cases, so I can't respond to your question. I don't know why people around the country have such enormously differing experiences of their GICs and the doctors who practise there. I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with them.

As for what I wrote, I was just citing my source for a quote on one of the many reasons why there's value to performing SRS on people with gender dysphoria, and my source happened to be one of the UK SRS surgeons (on My Transsexual Summer, not quoted verbatim).

[Sweet Blue Girl]

There's simple no contraddiction. If you make your money honestly, staying better is the prerequisites to help other people that surrounds you. Otherwise how cold you help someone with such a burden?
Everybody must have some degree of satisfaction, or depression would kill him or her, and I don't believe in santity, when people leaves all their problems behind to help someone, it is something noone can do, because real problems hit you from behind!

[pretty]

That question is 0% about their compassion for starving people and 100% about their discomfort with SRS. Doesn't even merit an answer, you could just laugh and call them a hypocrite.

[Kira1981]

I had SRS now I regret it because of guilt trips. I have been told Im selfish and self centered. I even live full time as a male. I would not want to see this happen to anyone. Do for yourself first.

[JoannaH]

Before you have the ability to help others you have to take care of yourself.

You can't help the suffering of others until you end your own suffering, then and only then can to reach out to help others effectively.

JP

[Padma]

Before you have the ability to help others you have to take care of yourself.

You can't help the suffering of others until you end your own suffering, then and only then can to reach out to help others effectively.

JP

I think it's okay to do both at the same time. And I'm not talking about the grand gestures - doing simple acts of kindness make me just as much happier as whoever I'm doing them for. I don't think we need to wait until we're completely sorted out before we're capable of having a positive effect on the world around us.

[Semiopathy]

Most of the replies here presuppose some duty to help the poor, the elderly, or the underprivileged. Keep in mind, if you are a tax paying citizen of the United States, you already are helping these individuals. Our government is taking your money by force and giving it to them.

I am not my brother's, or sister's, keeper. As I am able to perform the actions necessary to sustain my own life and happiness, so I recognize in every individual the ability to do the same. As I do not sacrifice myself for others, I do not ask any one to sacrifice their self for me. I do not see the world as a helpless, degenerate mass of people crying out for help, but as a benevolent, rational world in which I am free to trade with rational people, value for value. If you trade $20k for SRS, is it a fair trade? What if you trade $20k to a boozing alcoholic whose mind has rotted away years ago? What value, other than assuaging an unearned and underserved guilt, do you gain?

There is a difference between being generous or benevolent, and being self-sacrificial. Whether you earn $20k through honest work, inherit it, or win it in a lotto game, it is yours by right and you have a moral right to dispense with your money as you wish.

[karmatic1110]

Most of the replies here presuppose some duty to help the poor, the elderly, or the underprivileged. Keep in mind, if you are a tax paying citizen of the United States, you already are helping these individuals. Our government is taking your money by force and giving it to them.

I am not my brother's, or sister's, keeper. As I am able to perform the actions necessary to sustain my own life and happiness, so I recognize in every individual the ability to do the same. As I do not sacrifice myself for others, I do not ask any one to sacrifice their self for me. I do not see the world as a helpless, degenerate mass of people crying out for help, but as a benevolent, rational world in which I am free to trade with rational people, value for value. If you trade $20k for SRS, is it a fair trade? What if you trade $20k to a boozing alcoholic whose mind has rotted away years ago? What value, other than assuaging an unearned and underserved guilt, do you gain?

There is a difference between being generous or benevolent, and being self-sacrificial. Whether you earn $20k through honest work, inherit it, or win it in a lotto game, it is yours by right and you have a moral right to dispense with your money as you wish.

I 100% agree.  Well said.  Guilt is a form of emotional violence and no matter how you dress it up it's still immoral.  If a person has X dollars, I don't care how much X is, they can decide what to do with their money.

[Padma]

It's the hypothetical original questioner who has limited this hypothetical question to finances. Being socially responsible need have nothing to do with money anyway. We look after ourselves, we look after each other, because ourselves and each other are worth looking after.

The original question is fundamentally questioning the value of someone who wants to transition, and that assumption is the inappropriate one. So it's the values of the questioner that should be under question.

[...and yes, re-reading that makes even my head spin.]

[Padma]

I'm concerned that if we get too caught up here in arguing whether we should or should not want to help others, we'll lose sight of the appallingness of the original question, which is essentially asking "why does a trans person deserve to be helped?"

I don't think there's an appropriate response in the end, because it would presuppose someone who was open to considering that people who need SRS need it as validly as someone needing any other kind of surgery (or care in general). And someone who's asking that question has already decided we don't deserve it.

[YinYanga]

Do those starving africans also care about your identity's safety? Many african LGBT people face intense discrimination (and no , I dont believe this is natural for Africa as many african's seem to believe, they probably had a flourishing LGBT tribal life pre-colonization) and some are even killed for it as if they were possesed or bewitched

It goes both ways

[Devlyn]

You're not spending the starving persons $20K, you're spending your $20K. Hugs, Devlyn

[Jamie D]

I've gotten a response similar to this before and need to bounce the question off of you all.  On the one hand, I feel like even though it will be next to impossible for me to raise enough money for SRS, it is something I need for my health and well being - not something that would just be nice, like getting a brow lift.  On the other hand, I think that if I ever did get enough money for SRS, I should use that money to help my family in Mexico where many struggle just for food and housing - plus, I might need money later on should I ever get sick...

An old fallacy.

"How can you spend money, when others are poor?"
"How can you be happy, when people are oppressed in China?"
"How can you eat, when people are starving in Africa?"

It is the standard leftist guilt trip.  The fallacy is that they are trying to make you responsible for others' misery.

Some of the fundamental tenets of natural law are that you have a natural right to life; a right to defend yourself, your family, and your property; a right to fruit of your own labor; and a right to pursue happiness.

You are not responsible for the failings of others.  On the contrary, you have a responsibility to strive for you own success and happiness.

Charity and altruism are admirable traits, but there is no such thing as involuntary charity or compulsory altruism.

[Jamie D]

I had SRS now I regret it because of guilt trips. I have been told Im selfish and self centered. I even live full time as a male. I would not want to see this happen to anyone. Do for yourself first.

You have no reason to feel guilty, especially since your were born with an intersex condition (AIS).  You have done what you need to do to survive.  You are to be congratulated.