How can you spend 20K on SRS when people are starving?

[Jamie D]

Does a family need 3 BMW's and 2 Humvees? No...that would be excessive. (Unless there's at least 5 people who drive in the family).

It is not your prerogative to decide what is, or is not, "excessive."  If that family can afford to purchase those items, they help employ all those involved in manufacturing, transporting, marketing, selling, and servicing those vehicles.

[Felix]

I've gotten a response similar to this before and need to bounce the question off of you all.  On the one hand, I feel like even though it will be next to impossible for me to raise enough money for SRS, it is something I need for my health and well being - not something that would just be nice, like getting a brow lift.  On the other hand, I think that if I ever did get enough money for SRS, I should use that money to help my family in Mexico where many struggle just for food and housing - plus, I might need money later on should I ever get sick.

Some people tell me that I am too old or its just too expensive, but then I asked my best friend how he would feel if he had a vagina instead of a penis and he said that would be awful because he "loves his penis."  I don't know that I would say that I loved any part fo my body, but having SRS is an essential part of me making the outside match who I am on the inside, but I still struggle with thoughts of "wasting money."

I'm not going to read the other responses right now because it hurts me to think about what people might say. I'll say that how to spend one's money can be a deeply personal and charged issue, and we fight and judge too much about it.

When I was a teenager and didn't have anywhere reliable to sleep or eat, I once spent money on wart removal acid. I had a bunch of warts on my left hand. They made me uncomfortable, and it was a solvable problem, and frankly my mind wasn't big enough to deal with issues of who needs this money more. I was a wreck. I just needed to get by. Getting that disgusting crap off my hand was pretty good, considering how powerless I was otherwise.

Now, I have a kid who needs braces. Like, her teeth are awful, to the point that people will treat her unkindly in the future even before they find out what real problems she has. If I had the money, I'm honestly not sure whether I'd get her braces or my top surgery. My top surgery might be what stands between me and suicide, but how do I know dental work isn't (or won't be) the same thing for my daughter? I'm not a monster and I can't assume.

I've been hungry and I've suffered. I have scars and other permanent damage from the times I couldn't afford medical treatment. I've slept outside in subzero weather. I've gone 20 years with no one to call if I really need help. I've shared tiny spaces with my child for 12 years. I've worked 2 and 3 jobs at times, just to maintain.

But if someone wants to drop 20k on a procedure that makes them whole again, that's okay. It makes me feel good to know that there are clear and permanent ways to alleviate some problems. You can feed me today and I'll still suffer tomorrow, but if you fixed my body I'd have a better existence and my presence in the world would be better for everyone else, too.

[El]

An old fallacy.

"How can you spend money, when others are poor?"
"How can you be happy, when people are oppressed in China?"
"How can you eat, when people are starving in Africa?"

It is the standard leftist guilt trip.  The fallacy is that they are trying to make you responsible for others' misery.

Some of the fundamental tenets of natural law are that you have a natural right to life; a right to defend yourself, your family, and your property; a right to fruit of your own labor; and a right to pursue happiness.

You are not responsible for the failings of others.  On the contrary, you have a responsibility to strive for you own success and happiness.

Charity and altruism are admirable traits, but there is no such thing as involuntary charity or compulsory altruism.

Thats not fair, im about as far left as you can go without falling off the chart all together and i dont think you should blame yourself for spending money when people are poor. what people should blame themselves for is letting your govenment (and my own) prop up the system of inequity. You are not responsible for the failings of others however we are ALL responsible for the damage that our way of life causes to others.

[Korra]

That's a silly line of reasoning lol.  How can you have a wide screen tv, game system, etc.. people spend money on luxuries we can at least put up some money for a medical condition.  You should ask them why they're browsing youtube videos instead of volunteering to help out, or how they're paying X dollars a month for internet when people don't even have homes.

[Flan]

It's a matter of the divide between industrialized nations and the developing world (and by proxy, between classes in nations) in the sense of "we" don't really need the tv's, iJunk, internet access, cars, and bling bling clothing but have the privilege of having, or have access to the mentioned things.

It's great to talk about the blight of others but hard in theory to improve the situation of others when they have lived in those conditions all their life and think it's normal.

[JoannaH]

Think of it as an investment in the future that will allow you to grow and enable you to give more to others.

If you try to give before you are centered, then in the long run much less with be donated. You just have to get yourself centered first and then you can go forward and increase the positive energy in the world.

[Padma]

I tend to think that just being kind to people around us even when we're having a difficult time is more generous than many people manage. Most of the most important generosity is personal, and isn't financial. And it's often harder to be kind to the people who live next door than it is to worry about the people on the next continent, for some reason.

The kind of question the OP is referring to is almost invariably riding on a bow-wave of nastiness that's completely unjustified.

[caseyyy]

I do wonder what the people who ask that question spend their money on. I bet that while many of us are saving to get our surgeries, they're spending just as much, if not more on crap that's much more trivial. 'Why are you eating out? You could save thousands of dollars this year and donate it to something' 'Why are you buying a $200 pair of jeans?' 'Why a new laptop? The old one still works.'

As spacial said too, it's not a lack of money that causes poverty. There's so many other factors and to assume that throwing a few dollars at the issue will make it go away is laughable.

[Jamie D]

[W]hat people should blame themselves for is letting your govenrment (and my own) prop up the system of inequity.

El, what is a "system of inequity."  Does your government provide for "equal opportunity"?  A system in which one can achieve and prosper according to their own skills, abilities, and sweat?

Beyond that, is it the role of government to ensure equal result and distribution of wealth?  I think not.

[Rosa]

I appreciate all the replies.  I should also add that some of the comments that I've received before by friends were not just about helping others, but also about saving money to help myself in the future - for example, with food or housing.  My friend said not to tell him I'm saving up for SRS, but rather saving to buy food, or housing, or to help family in Mexico because Mexicans that come here work so hard just to make a better life for family in Mexico (like getting off a dirt floor).

I think it might come down to the fact that to them, SRS is an elective option that is not as important as, for example, a heart operation or other life threatening medical condition.  Some of these people asking me this are good folks, but they don't understand transexuality and have other personal priorities. 

I was raised to help others, pounded into me by the church, so I suppose this question causes some guilt to creep in.  Again, thanks for the replies 

[Jamie D]

I appreciate all the replies.  I should also add that some of the comments that I've received before by friends were not just about helping others, but also about saving money to help myself in the future - for example, with food or housing.  My friend said not to tell him I'm saving up for SRS, but rather saving to buy food, or housing, or to help family in Mexico because Mexicans that come here work so hard just to make a better life for family in Mexico (like getting off a dirt floor).

I think it might come down to the fact that to them, SRS is an elective option that is not as important as, for example, a heart operation or other life threatening medical condition.  Some of these people asking me this are good folks, but they don't understand transexuality and have other personal priorities. 

I was raised to help others, pounded into me by the church, so I suppose this question causes some guilt to creep in.  Again, thanks for the replies 

Robertina, SRS/GCS may be "elective" for some transsexuals, after all, there is an entire forum here for "non-ops."  For others, however, the incongruence between their emotional selves and their physical selves is as life-threatening as any disease.

Saving for a life-altering surgery should be as prudent and acceptable as saving for retirement.

[Felix]

I do wonder what the people who ask that question spend their money on. I bet that while many of us are saving to get our surgeries, they're spending just as much, if not more on crap that's much more trivial. 'Why are you eating out? You could save thousands of dollars this year and donate it to something' 'Why are you buying a $200 pair of jeans?' 'Why a new laptop? The old one still works.'

I don't know anyone who lives like this. I've never bought new jeans in my life, or a new computer (though I was given one on scholarship in college) and that's not just because I don't have a lot of money. I was raised with different priorities.

I do agree it can be a slippery slope argument. I drink coffee daily. Do I need that? Of course not. I buy pickles sometimes, which have next to no nutritional value. Anything I have, someone else doesn't have. It's hard to live with, and it goes all the way down.

[CindyLouCovington]

Our gangster politicians rob the people of this country of Billions, so don't get a guilt trip.In New Orleans I saw a beautiful city deliberately flooded by the City Hall Gang so that they could feast on graft at the expense of the American Taxpayer. They used federal funds to repair the houses in a part of the city,and then turned around and destroyed the same houses to build a couple of huge, unnecessary hospital pork barrel projects.And if you gave that money to some charity, they would probably use it to give their executives a bonus. Most people who say these kind of things are probably in bed with the crooks. So don't deprive yourself of what you need to make your life a little less miserable.

[Joelene9]

I think it might come down to the fact that to them, SRS is an elective option that is not as important as, for example, a heart operation or other life threatening medical condition.  Some of these people asking me this are good folks, but they don't understand transexuality and have other personal priorities. 

I was raised to help others, pounded into me by the church, so I suppose this question causes some guilt to creep in.  Again, thanks for the replies 

I am on a fixed income.  I still give to charities.  Giving to charities is also an investment that it will improve people's lives and to help them to help themselves.  This investment returns are the actual improvement in those people's lives with the only returns for yourself is the satisfaction that you did help these people.  This year I am canceling a few charities because they have sent me too much mail over the past year begging for more money, in some cases, twice a month!  This begging cost a lot of money in postage, the 'free' return address stickers, notepads, calendars and eats into the small investments I give to these charities.  This money will go somewhere else.  You have to be a smart investor!  You got to know when to bail! 
  Robertina, saving for your SRS is an investment in your own health.  Charity begins at home.  You mentioned that you have Kleinfelter's.  A man with Kleinfelters mostly cannot do the the things the other men can do because of certain issues with that syndrome.  You are in the group that is more likely have GID tendencies than the others. 
  Joelene

[El]

El, what is a "system of inequity."  Does your government provide for "equal opportunity"?  A system in which one can achieve and prosper according to their own skills, abilities, and sweat?

Beyond that, is it the role of government to ensure equal result and distribution of wealth?  I think not.

You really wouldnt appreciate my theories regarding socio-economics. They are somewhat extreme.

[Jamie D]

I buy pickles sometimes, which have next to no nutritional value.

Bread and butter pickles are an essential food group of their own.

[Jamie D]

You really wouldnt appreciate my theories regarding socio-economics. They are somewhat extreme.

I am all ears, earthling.



(With apologies to poster Slanan)

[Joelene9]

I do agree it can be a slippery slope argument. I drink coffee daily. Do I need that? Of course not. I buy pickles sometimes, which have next to no nutritional value. Anything I have, someone else doesn't have. It's hard to live with, and it goes all the way down.

Au contraire!  Pickled cucumbers have more than you think!  Take this from a gardener who makes these things.  It also depends on what is being pickled. 
  http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/3006/2
  Joelene

[Felix]

  Au contraire!  Pickled cucumbers have more than you think!  Take this from a gardener who makes these things.  It also depends on what is being pickled. 
  http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/3006/2
  Joelene

Haha, thank you! I tend to treat pickles like candy or alcohol - good for raising quality of life, but often unjustifiable financially. I like anything pickled. We made cornbread with pickled cactus in it the other day (and omitted salt from the mix to compensate) and it was delicious. I like pickled jalapenos on blackeye peas. I really want to try making pickled watermelon rinds, but I'm a bit intimidated by the recipes. I need to start smaller.

To stay sorta on topic - when my daughter asks for an iphone and I say no we can't afford it, and she answers are we poor/why are we poor, I tell her we're filthy rich because we can eat whenever we want. That's a pretty royal way to live, considering most of the people on the planet and most of human history.

[El]

I am all ears, earthling.



(With apologies to poster Slanan)

I believe the future lies in the direction of a world goverment and the abolition of money. Now dont get me wrong money and capitalism have done a great deal to advance the progress of mankind but they have run their usefull course. The myth of scarcity is what makes money "neccisary" but there is no scarcity, only things that are outside of our reach, if we pooled our resources and strove to improve our way of life we could take the next step towards the advancement of the species, which is harvesting the natural resources in space. If you do away with money (or more to the point the idea of "wealth") you do away with greed, with corruption, with beurocracy. The world debt crisis is proof enough that our system of wealth doesnt work, everyone owes money to everyone and it all just exists on computers and billboards. If profit and loss were no longer valid concepts then progress would be far easier to achieve, resources going where they are needed instead of where they can be afforded.  I propose a resource based economy, heavily automated and based purely of supply and demand.

I dont think ive summed it up very well and my spelling/grammer are terrible. Feel free to ask me to clarify anything.

Some common objections people have to my idea and my answers to them:

What would be the motivation to work?

Well I think saying that the pursuit of material gains is the reason people work doesnt do people enough credit. If we take away the need for what is essentially slave labour to perfom the less desirable jobs (through automation) then people would have time to pursue the arts and sciences instead of toiling in a factory or office 40 hours a week or more.

What about the jobs that couldnt be automated?

Well most jobs on earth can be automated, we have robotic surgeons now, what does that tell you about robotics? You would only really need about 2% of the population to actually work maintenance of the system and i dont know about you but i would gladly be part of that 2% if it meant the other 98% could do something usefull like study science of creat works of art.

But surely there isnt enough to go around, i keep hearing about the fuel crisis etc etc etc

Actually theres plenty enough to go around, food production is limited by inefficency and energy consumption. Energy consuption is a problem because of our reliance on fossil fuels (although i would argue we arent actually really running out of them, they just pollute too much to be viable) if we switched to (for example) geothermal energy we could power the world as it is right now 10 times over with very little effort, the main obsticle in the way of this change is the fuel companies lobbying the goverments to keep their dirty fossil fuel profits rolling in (ooh look its the myth of scarcity again)

Computers running the economy? Sound like skynet to me!

Well to be fair 99% of the world money only exists on a computer. The computers that would handle the supply and demand would need supervision yes but only by a very small amount of people.




Ok so thats all my brain can handle right now, so feel free to call me a crackpot

I dont think we will see these changes in my lifetime but I do believe it will be how things eventually end up (that or we kill ourselves before then)