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Starting laser sessions!

Started by Maja.V, February 02, 2012, 01:59:37 AM

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Maja.V

QuoteThe hair going tough is hopefully a good sign (fried hair!). How is it now after a few days?

The redness is now all gone, had a little bit of swelling yesterday but I think that went away today, as well.

Been lightly tugging on some of the spots on my face and there's some clearly burned hair dropping out. Can tell because it smells. ;D

Quote from: spacecase0 on February 06, 2012, 01:22:24 PM
all you need is the cold right before the pulse, but with all that pain I would want the cold there the entire time (maybe you could ask for that next time to see if it hurts less)

She would probably agree to it, but the procedure would take so much longer. The cold would only help for that instant moment though, wouldn't help with the redness and swelling. I'm just gonna pop a couple of anti-pain pills (like she suggested) and try with that. Hopefully they'll take the edge off.

Stephe, that's great to hear! Good thing nothing went wrong, your skin could've been really damaged.

Stephe

Quote from: Maja.V on February 06, 2012, 11:42:01 PM
Stephe, that's great to hear! Good thing nothing went wrong, your skin could've been really damaged.

Nah I trust these people. They are very professional (this is a surgeons office, not a salon testing on me with some old used machine) plus the rep was telling her what to do, how to set the machine up etc.
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Maja.V

Quote from: Stephe on February 07, 2012, 12:50:33 AM
Nah I trust these people. They are very professional (this is a surgeons office, not a salon testing on me with some old used machine) plus the rep was telling her what to do, how to set the machine up etc.

That's true but it's still not in actual use, so you never know. But hey, free sessions are always great. :D

SandraJane

Well Maya...welcome to the club! I just completed 5 LHR treatments to my face and neck 2 weeks ago, and it was done at a medical school Dermatology clinic with a Lumenus LightShear Duet! How about the Upper Lip part? Ouch! The nice thing about the Duet is that it has 2 Laser heads, the larger one is currently the biggest of any make laser, and with the vacuum feature it helps to diminish the pain of the zap. The smaller head is the one for the upper lip and  smaller narrower areas.

Pain? With the exception of IMAJ Institute of Scottsdale, Arizona, most LHR operators recommend the use LMX 4 or 5% Topical Cream 2 hours before treatment. It won't completely prevent the pain, especially the upper lip, but it will make it tolerable. Make sure that you shave as close as possible the day of treatment and clean your face with a good skin cleanser instead of soap.

Swelling after the treatment is a good sign, perifollicular edema, an indicator of a successful treatment and will diminish in about a day. Make sure that you put on a 30 SPF sunscreen immediately after treatment and everyday thereafter. I don't know if this brand is available in the EU, but the Aveeno Ultra-Calming SPF 30 moisturizer is one of the best to use post treatment and helps calm the skin down.

Some of the hair will fall about immediately, and others will fall out about 2-4 weeks later. When this occurs you will be able to see any light/white/grey hairs clearly, sadly it will take Electrolysis to get rid of these. I found out that about 30 % of the hair on my face was white. 6 treatments should clear most of it permanently, and take about 6-8 months depending on how many weeks in between treatments your provider recommends.

http://www.aesthetic.lumenis.com/lightsheerduet

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Maja.V

Thank you for the information SandraJane, but I'm not sure as to why I should be using a sunscreen? It's awfully cold outside and definitely not sunny. I do use a moisturising cream, but it's not really a sunscreen, per se.

And yeah, the pain might've been slightly worse for me because I didn't shave before the procedure, and she couldn't shave me either, because she only had those one-time usage razors which are pretty much useless on male facial hair. The hair was like 0.2-0.3 inches long already. And of course, no shaving foam. Durr. ;D

I don't really like the idea of my hair turning lighter, though, because I'm not sure we even have an electrolysis specialist in Slovenia. Gonna have to dig around for one.

I had the first session on 4th, and my next one is on the 3rd of March, meaning around 4 weeks in-between.

shortNsweet

Quote from: Maja.V on February 07, 2012, 06:03:07 AM
Thank you for the information SandraJane, but I'm not sure as to why I should be using a sunscreen? It's awfully cold outside and definitely not sunny. I do use a moisturising cream, but it's not really a sunscreen, per se.

And yeah, the pain might've been slightly worse for me because I didn't shave before the procedure, and she couldn't shave me either, because she only had those one-time usage razors which are pretty much useless on male facial hair. The hair was like 0.2-0.3 inches long already. And of course, no shaving foam. Durr. ;D

I don't really like the idea of my hair turning lighter, though, because I'm not sure we even have an electrolysis specialist in Slovenia. Gonna have to dig around for one.

I had the first session on 4th, and my next one is on the 3rd of March, meaning around 4 weeks in-between.

4 weeks between sessions? That seems quick. I haven't had my first appointment yet (that's this Saturday) but I was told I would be making appointments about every 8 weeks. Maybe because of the difference in laser?
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SandraJane

I was wondering the same thing Maya...4 weeks is too short, needs to be 6-8 weeks. Also, its very important to shave and clean your face prior to treatment as you found out! It hurts and the Laser energy will be shunted to the skin instead of down the hair shaft to the bulb-papilla. The aim of the Laser is to heat up and vaporize the bulb/papilla, thus destroying the blood and hormone supply to the hair.

As for Sunscreen, it doesn't matter where you are or the season, the Sun still shines and UV Rays still get through the clouds to your skin. Think of it this way, the Laser has already "burned" your skin, you don't want another burn on top of that, and a SPF 30 sunscreen or Sunblock (difference is a "block" has either Zinc or Titanium Dioxide in it to completely block the Sun/UV Rays). Over here in the USA its a must and  a standard of care post LHR treatments.

One more "thing" or two...what is your Fitzpatrick Skin Type?  Type 1, 2 & 3 do better than 4, 5 & 6, the Laser won't change the color of your hair. If the hair is dark, brown or black, the better to conduct the energy, remember that dark absorbs heat and light/white reflects heat. Red hair is iffy. Plus, you don't need "shaving cream", a liquid soap or body wash will work better in my experience, I use generic KY Jelly. KY or similar jell is waters soluble and provides a good slick surface for the razor to slide over without "grabbing".




http://pantheongroupusa.net/fitzpatrickchart.html

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/70310900/Fitzpatrick-Skin-Type

https://www.google.com/search?q=fitzpatrick+skin+type&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=1W0&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Rv4xT5r_G4ahsQL8m4XZBg&ved=0CEQQsAQ&biw=1223&bih=654

And...I'm also a CLT (Certified Laser Technician) ;)
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Maja.V

#27
Oh, I see. I'm going to try finding a cream with UV protection then. Luckily for me I spend about 98 - 100% of my time indoors. ;D The Aveeno cream doesn't seem to be sold in Europe, though.

As far as 4 weeks go, I don't really mind paying for a few more treatments if I need them, I really want this thing off my face and the center I go to is basically one of two (I think) centers with actual lasers and certified personnel. The other is not only far away, but much more expensive (since it's basically a plastic surgery clinic with 'extras').

My skin type is between 1 and 2 (perhaps leaning more towards 2), it's quite pale, and my hair is very dark (black-ish). I don't usually use creams and razors at all because I shave with an electric shaver.

Thank you again for the advice. Much appreciated! :D

Cindy

Haven't read the whole thread Maja.

I use Olay total effects SPF15 with a touch of foundation.  It doesn't matter what the weather is like as Sandra Jane pointed out you have been burnt. And also it is a good time to get into some daily maintenance, my laser people were very eager to help me with how to look after my skin and I really appreciated it.

And if you can, razor shave before being lasered as SJ said, you don't want to waste the money on zapping hairs.

The upper lip is the doozy. I'm now clear but have to get the upper lip touched up about every 2-3 months. Takes 10 minutes. AND, something to look forward to girls, a female friend greeted me with a cheek kiss and said, your skin is so smooth. I was in heaven :laugh:

Hugs

Cindy
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Maja.V

I think Olay's sold in our country, as well. If not, I'll order it through the German Amazon website where they actually have it. It's sold as Oil of Olaz in Europe.

Next time just before the procedure I'm going to go through with the electrical shaver *and* the razor, just to make sure everything's cut as it should be. ;D

It kind of bothers me that you need to get your upper lip touched up, though. I thought it would be a more or less permanent thing? And smooth skin is totally awesome, I keep touching and brushing my arms. <3

Cindy

I think the upper lip has the densest hair so it takes longer. I also cannot take the full energy on the upper lip as it is so painful. But it is getting a lot better.  As I said it takes about 10-15 mins for my entire face. Initially it  first took three hours plus and was HELL. I now get the whole face just to clear the odd hair, I sort of enjoy it as part of my beauty routine, and I like the girls who work on me and we have a good chat. I had my chest done and my bikini line and that was really easy and I was clean after a few treatments.

This might sound silly, but I get my laser when I want, I get my eyebrows shaped at a different salon. My legs waxed at another and my manicure and pedicure at another place. It's a lot of fun. I'm 'just' another woman client and I really enjoy the acceptance and the social network you end up with. For some reason most of the girls remember me and are chatty and friendly, as I am (important that) I am VERY sociable, friendly and female and it tells, even if I feel like c**p  I'm  friendly and open. It opens doors.

Sorry I'm  going on. Remember their boyfriends, partners and children's names and ask about them. That is how women relate, we look after family.

We all have horrible problems at times with transitioning.  But may I counsel you? Enjoy the pleasures, even if they are painful :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Cindy
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Maja.V

Just the lip took 3 hours? Or the whole face and neck area? Because it took me around 40 minutes or so to go through it all - I'm really not sure how long exactly, I was in lots of pain and just sitting the car for like 30 minutes, cooling off. :D But then again, I didn't take any breaks inbetween and just told her to go on whenever she asked if I wanted to stop, just wanting to get it over with.

Given that you're a very sociable person it doesn't really strike me as weird that you go to different salons. Whatever floats your boat, really. ;)

I'm not very sociable, I tend to mostly keep to myself and I've always felt somewhat awkward talking to new people.

I'll take the advice, though, and try to stick with it. :laugh:

smooth

I've been following this thread and most of the others relating to hair removal here at Susan's because it's a subject that's close to my heart. My main interest is electrolysis because that's what I'm aiming to do professionally once I'm happy I've reached a good standard. I'm forever raising my eyebrows at some of the things that people say. It's sad but there is a lot of bad information about what works and what doesn't, It bugs me big time. I'm hoping that as more time passes I'll be able to shrug it off and just accept that that's how life is, we're bogged down in BS and there's a lot of people making a lot of money off the back of it.
I think there's always going to be an argument around which is best, laser or electrolysis and I doubt it will ever be resolved completely. I'm heavily biased towards electrolysis because I know that with a good practitioner it works and will remove Any hair permanently. I was prompted to throw in my two penneths worth when I read Cindys post. Where she says "I'm now clear but have to get the upper lip touched up about every 2-3 months." Sorry Cindy I'm not picking on you  ;) When you say "clear" I think it's a little... misleading, I'll try to clear up why.
First I'll start by saying that there are obviously exceptions to every rule and there's always going to someone who stands up and let's everyone else know it. I've been that person more than once  :D But! Having looked into it, it's becoming apparent and even obvious that laser will only take Most people to a certain point with hair removal at which time no further progress will be made.... I know this to be true from personal experience and from talking with and corresponding with some very experienced people in this field. It's been said and noticed more and more by electrologists everywhere that laser is actually good for business. There was a fear initially when laser was introduced as a means of "permanent hair removal" that electrolysis was going to vanish for good. As time has passed however this has proved not to be the case and laser treatments can no longer be called permanent hair removal. Strictly speaking it should be referred to as permanent hair reduction because this is the reality of it. Laser has prompted more people to consider permanent hair removal as an option because it made it appear like it is easy to achieve. When they start on this quest it ultimately ends up with them tracking down a good electrologist to finish the job if what they want to achieve is "Clearance" (no more hairs, no touch ups and "no plucking the odd hair here and there") As Cindy pointed out when she said she is "now clear" she still has to do touch ups every 2-3 months. Cindy's experience is probably quite typical of a lot of people who have solely used laser to remove any facial hair. There are going to be others who have also had electrolysis but were unfortunate in that they couldn't/didn't find a good electrologist to finish their hair removal 100% "Clear!" their story will be similar. Unfortunately there are by all accounts plenty of so called electrologists out there who are not doing good work. This is giving the profession a bad name and eating away at the good reputation that electrolysis deserves. I dare say there is a similar situation with laser practitioners as there is in many professions. The difference being that a good electrologist will get rid of all of the hair because they are able to but a good laser operator won't because they are always going to be restrained by the fact that laser treatments do have limits beyond which they don't work. Typically these limitations will be experienced by most TG people trying to remove facial "beard" hair.
The hair removal business generates millions and millions every year as people strive to be hair free. The companies producing the lasers for hair removal are constantly bringing out new models that supercede the last one. Where it didn't work before they claim that it now does. It's starting to look a little bit like the approach that the manufacturers of mascara have. We're always seeing new brands appearing that make claims about the longest lashes, no clumping, longer lasting etc. Do they live up to their marketing.... "Do they EK!" as they say in Yorkshire  ;D Both laser and mascara are simply trying their best to strangle every last penny form their potential market share. Does that equate to better treatment/longer lashes, I'll leave that conclusion to you...
I do personally think that laser does achieve a level of success with removing a typical male beard. However I'm also aware that if you want it gone completely then the reality will probably mean finding a good electrologist to finish off what the laser started. Not everyone feels the need to be 100% clear, some people are happy plucking the odd hair here and there or going in for touch ups, this will be on going..... if you find a good electrologist you will be able to forget about it for good. Until menopause of course but that's another story for another post and is common to a lot of women TG or otherwise...

see you on the beach....
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Maja.V

Thank you for the information, smooth. Finding a good, capable electrologist is a pain, though, especially in a small country like Slovenia. There are tons of cosmetic parlours with IPL 'lasers', a couple of decent dermatalogy centers with actual lasers, and I've seen absolutely no one advertising electrolysis and can't find any information on it on the internet. I'm hopeful that there is a place around here, if not, I'll have to go to neighbouring countries which is going to cost me loads of money.

I do want to achieve complete clearance though, I can't stand hair (facial or body) and it's making me very dysphoric.

AbraCadabra

Quote from: Beverley on February 08, 2012, 06:54:23 AM
Well, I am just back from being zapped (the car engine is still warm)  and I have always been aware that laser is not the total 100% solution because I have some grey hairs. I have always known I will need electrolysis eventually, but laser is a LOT cheaper and gets the job done with a lot less pain.

Yes, there will be electrolysis to come, but for the fastest, most effective 'bang per buck' I have started with laser.

Beverley

Seems to depend on the country?

15 min laser (face only) having now lots of while/grey = R500-00 = 66US$

1hr electrolysis taking out dark and white                    =  R85-00 = 11.25US$

Go figure,
Axélle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Maja.V

Quote from: Beverley on February 08, 2012, 07:20:24 AM
The prices are very different to here. I have seen electrolysis here in the UK at £80 = USD128 per hour whereas I can get a whole body laser deal for £300 = USD480.

I shopped around and got an introductory deal of six sessions on Face, neck and chest for £100 = £17 per session. This morning was number 3 of 6.

Beverley

It's good that you should mention that, and it kind of shows in what kind of a backwoods country I live in. The laser treatment I've paid for cost me 756 euros (633 pounds or 1000$) for 6 sessions (that is with a 30% discount), which covers face and neck. I've a 50% discount on any follow-ups, which brings the price down to 90 euros (75 pounds or 120$) per session. And I wouldn't mind it, if we didn't have an awfully low standard of living. Fantastic, huh. :-\

And then some wonder why we only have one therapist in the country.

SandraJane

Quote from: Beverley on February 08, 2012, 06:54:23 AM
Well, I am just back from being zapped (the car engine is still warm)  and I have always been aware that laser is not the total 100% solution because I have some grey hairs. I have always known I will need electrolysis eventually, but laser is a LOT cheaper and gets the job done with a lot less pain.

Yes, there will be electrolysis to come, but for the fastest, most effective 'bang per buck' I have started with laser.

Beverley

When I started, didn't realize how much white hair I had, didn't become apparent until 4 weeks after the first LHR session. In another thread on this subject several months ago, we discussed the use of Melamine for coloring the light hairs, a technique touted by some LHR clinics. Alas the reality according to other posts I have seen on the Internet and Axelle's experience is that it doesn't work that well...so Electrolysis for the lighter hairs.

As far as deals, buyer beware! I chose a Med school clinic where the price ran me $375 USD per session for all of my face and neck, actually a better deal because it was negotiable based upon the amount of time the operator felt would be needed. I had an experienced RN who worked at the clinic for over 7yrs perform each of my treatments. Consistency dose count, so does the equipment/Laser system being used. Plus, it was pay as you go, no packages requiring a large up front payment, but no touch up provision.

Where I live here in the US (DFW area), Electrolysis ranges from $60 to $100 USD an hour, with most places offer it in increments of 10 - 15 minutes. Where I'm going for Electrolysis charges $65 USD an hour, has the latest machine and is TG/TS friendly plus able to do the genital area also (important if you are planning to have SRS/GRS/GCS which I am).   Now at the high dollar end, the $100 USD an hour price is from E3000, they reportedly give clients Lidocaine SubQ injections to the area being zapped (face), and charge $150 USD an hour for the "South Pole", genital areas.

LHR can give a better "bang for yer buck", especially if you don't have a thick or dense amount of facial hair and little to none light hairs.
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rachl

I had my first treatment for my face almost 2 weeks ago. I have fair skin and dark hair, so hopefully it works. I'm not on HRT yet, but hopefully that'll change in the next few months, and will contribute to the hair not growing back (thanks to the anti-androgens).

The first was a pretty low setting and didn't hurt, though I have a pretty high tolerance for pain. We'll see how tough I am when they up the intensity around #3 or #4. They've suggested a numbing cream when it gets to that point.

My treatments are 6 weeks apart.
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shortNsweet

I had my first laser session today. I was quite excited but also nervous. I think it went pretty well. The lady doing my sessions is really nice. She said it was apparent that my skin is rather sensitive which I've known for years. But it's nice when professionals notice. She started me on a lower setting and went a little slower to start with so she could learn my skin and how I react. I don't have a whole lot of irritation so far which is nice.

My appointments are scheduled about 8 weeks apart, but she likes to schedule side sessions 2 weeks after to do touch ups on the face, which I think is a really smart idea.
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Maja.V

I'm happy to hear both your treatments went good. My next treatment is on the first Saturday in March.

I'm already shaking in my boots, but this time I'll be more prepared. ;D