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Androgyne: Weight, Proportion, vs Height - Body Shape

Started by Kendall, March 21, 2007, 10:09:54 PM

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Kendall

(measurements are primarily expressed in the Imperial System:  Foot/Inches for length/width and Pounds for weight which is the primary measurement for most English speaking countries (USA, UK, used still in Australia, and many times Canada)

3,500 Calories = 1 pound



Theoretical Intersexed/Mixed/Androgyne Body Dimensions (Created from data in Appendix A)

Weight 167 pounds
Height 5' 6.5"
12 inch bicep
Waist-to-Hip Ration (WHR) .80
Bust 36.25 (A cup)
Waist 30.25
Hips 37.78
Shoe Size 10.03






Knowledge that some dimensions are more difficult to change.
Certainly the Waist-to-Hip Ratio and the Breast size are the 2 main body proportions/shape that can be most easily controlled, changed, adjusted, padded, applied illusions, minimized, maximized, altered by surgical procedures, etc. While biological females have to fight natural curves to masculinize their shapes, men have to create curves to overcome their natural angular or middle stomach heavy shapes. We can focus on the specifics later. I am just pointing out that altering height or shoe size versus waist and bust sizes by various means are not practically and logically equally easy to accomplish. Though there are things to minimize or maximize height. Or hide/narrow larger feet.

As for Height, average height can vary depending on lineage. See this chart for various heights
Average Height -  Look at the chart on this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

To change a body shape or visually minimize and maximize body areas, try these suggestions put in order from easiest to hardest.







How to change one's body shape.
1. Illusion of body shape change
One could use clothing lengths, colors, shapes, patterns, and hues to visually alter the shape of one's body. This is the quickest, easiest, and first method one should pick in changing one's body shape.

Susan's has already collected numerous advice on how to visually create illusions for many body challenges. Shape vs type of clothing (see this link) https://www.susans.org/wiki/Fashion_advice

2. Basic tools that can change one's body shape (body shapers)Belt, Padding (shoulder, bra, waist, hip and rear, cinchers (waist and chest), corsets, breast forms.

3. Diets
While I would love to recommend diets. Because of the very nature of them, lack of cohesive agreement, and conflicting scientific data; I will instead list guidelines that one could follow in selecting a diet.

        http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/wgtloss.html

Tools for Dieting
You may want to buy a book of food nutritional values such as something like this.
Food Fat Calaries Carbs Protein and Cholestral Value Guide http://www.craftmax.com/calories/ or http://www.caloriecountercharts.com/chart1a.htm
In prepared foods, look at the label to find nutritional values.

Daily standard to maintain a weight and nutrition (to loose weight activty and calorie loss must be greater than calorie consumption, to gain the opposite).
USDA Recommended Daily Values for healthy body http://www.fda.gov/fdac/special/foodlabel/dvs.html
USDA Recommended based on Activity http://www.fda.gov/fdac/graphics/foodlabelspecial/pg44.pdf




4. Exercise:

Three types of body shape
Ectomorph: characterised as tall and slim/thin.
Endomorph: rounded and with a generous waist size.
Mesomorph: muscular and athletic looking.

Body shape and personality
There was a time when personality was thought to be associated with body shape. Ectomorphs were considered to be quiet and morose individuals, endomorphs rather jolly, and mesomorphs a bit on the crude and vulgar side.

Body shape-The slim look Aerobic exercises that involve all the muscle groups such as running, yoga and swimming are useful. Employing a steady rate of exercise and avoiding rapid bursts of activity are thought to be important.

If you want to be ectomorphic (long and thin):
  • Do more aerobic exercise, running and biking and ensure you work at a steady state (70 per cent max heart rate). Avoid explosive activity.
  • Use exercises that allow full range of movement - swimming, isokenetics or yoga and take more time to fully stretch each muscle.
  • Concentrate on eating complex carbohydrates such as pasta and potatoes and drink plenty of tepid water.

Body shape-The muscular look
Isolating each muscle group in turn and operating on a principle of short explosive bursts of activity is a basic principle. Weight bearing exercises and repeated cycles within a given muscle group are necessary - as is relaxating after normally no more than seven repetitions.

If you want to be mesomorphic (athletic and muscular):
  • Work on short bursts of explosive, dynamic and intense aerobic activity near to maximum effort - short sprints, jumping and punching.
  • Do more weight-bearing exercise - pump iron. Use heavy weights, up to 90 per cent of your maximum capability and complete at least three sets of each exercise with no more than seven repetitions per set. Ideally isolate one muscle group at a time and work it until exhausted.
  • You must have plenty of rest between each workout to allow the muscle to grow.

Body shape-The well rounded look
  • Do neither of the above. Eat too much and exercise as little as possible!
  • If you want to be endomorphic (rounded and stout):
  • Buy a video, some beer, order a takeaway, sit back and enjoy

Tools for exercise body shaping
Chart of  burned calories per exercise http://k2.kirtland.cc.mi.us/~balbachl/calorie.htm
Comprehensive chart of calories burned per activity http://www.nutristrategy.com/activitylist4.htm



5. Plastic Surgery
Average Surgeon costs of procedures (surgery costs will also include anesthesia, parts/equipment, and facility fees) http://www.infoplasticsurgery.com/cost.html

Average Surgeon costs for Procedures http://www.yourplasticsurgeryguide.com/trends/charts-graphs-2005.htm#surgeon-fees-2005

As with most plastic surgery, liposuction cost comprises three fees: surgeon fees, anesthesia fees, and facility fees. The anesthesia fees range from approximately $500 to $1,000, depending on the number of areas treated. The facility fees also vary depending on the number of areas where liposuction is performed, ranging from $600 to $1,200. The rest of the cost is the surgeon's fee.

The average cost to have liposuction performed in one area of the body is up to $4,000, in three areas is $6,000 to $8,000, and in five areas is $8,000 to $11,000. The cost is higher for larger body areas. For example, the average cost for the abdomen is $4,000 to $8,000, but for the outer thigh is about half as expensive.

Liposuction for men is more extensive, and therefore more expensive than for women because the texture of the fat is typically more fibrous and harder to remove than in women.

6. HRT (only applicable to some) results https://www.susans.org/wiki/Category:Hormone_Replacement_Therapy












Waist-hip ratio
Scientists have discovered that the waist-hip ratio (WHR) is a significant factor in judging female attractiveness. Women with a 0.7 WHR (waist circumference that is 70% of the hip circumference) are invariably rated as more attractive by men, regardless of their culture. A WHR of 0.7 for women and 0.9 for men have been shown to correlate strongly with general health and fertility.

Measuring
To calculate the ratio, use a non-stretchable tape. Make sure it is level around the body, parallel to the floor, and tighten it without depressing the skin. Measure the waist at its narrowest point width-wise, usually just above the belly button. Measure the hips around the widest part of the hip bones. Then divide the waist measurement by the hip measurement.

Artifical alteration
Many methods have been used to artificially alter a person's apparent WHR. These include corsets used to reduce the waist size and hip, waist, and buttock padding used by cross-dressers to increase the apparent sizes. One could use diet, exercise, and liposuction to decrease waist and hip sizes, and gain weight and build muscle to increase waist/hip sizes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waist-hip_ratio

How to use this charateristic to your advantage.
One can feminize by reducing waist area.
One can masculinize by increasing waist area.

1. Illusion techniques
To Feminize [Goal: make appear narrow and create curves]
QuoteThick Waisted
Recommended

Vests
Loose waistlines
Hip-slung belts
Dolman sleeves
Chemise dresses
Long tunic over skirt

Discouraged

Wide belts
Pleated or gathered skirts

Use feminine fabrics, cuts, and colors. (See post on Androgynous Clothing)


To Masculinize [Goal: make appear wider and minimize curves]
Recommended
Use masculine fabrics, cuts, and colors (see Post on Androgynous Clothing)
Multi colors in outfit at least two colors. Horizontal lines at the waist can add width.
Dark colors minimize (hips, breast, and feet area), light colors (shoulders, some in waist) maximize.
A large busy design like on a T-Shirt at the waist can add width.
Unbelted if possible, dont want to bring in waist area anymore. Keep shirt untucked if you must wear a belt, or layer with a coat, vest, or over shirt.
Baggy at the waist, and fitted more at the top, and bottom can add waist.
Long Shirts.

Discouraged

Large, busy patterns on breast area (chest logo or design)/pants
Horizontal stripes on breast area/pants
Brightly colored chest area or pants
Tucked in shirts (especially belted)
Short tight waist tops

Wearing something dark above the waist, and dark at the hips, then something light at the waist, Ex. a dark T-shirt with a big logo or image light in color at the waist worn slightly baggy untucked and with length, can add width to the waist, will minimizing the breast area. Adding dark unpleated men's fitted pants or above knee length shorts, if your calves are built well enough, can minimize a wider waist at the same time and add some length.

2. Tools - Minimize breast area with minimizing bra, sports bra, breast binding. Increase width at waist with padding or layers of clothing. Minimize hips with slenderizing hip leg shaper wear.

3. One could diet / exercise towards muscle building. Women that become more muscular normally achieve reduced breast and hip sizes, and increased waist. Decrease in weight to skinny anorexic shape, would decrease chest and hip, but make masculinization really difficult at the same time. Gaining weight also will gain more in the hips and chest/breast area, thus increasing difficulty of masculinization.

4. Hips and breast area can be removed and reduced through cosmetic surgeries.

5. Those undergoing HRT would experience muscle tone, fat redistribution (see link above for effects and side effects of testosterone)











Examples
Female biological trying to masculinize more:
Possible challenge areas: Height, waist-to-hip ratio, biceps, amount of muscle, breasts

Some Height possible solutions
1. For Height from the illusion type suggestions Using the link to fashion advice https://www.susans.org/wiki/Fashion_advice. Possible Masculine tips I have highlighted in bold below.

QuoteSmall Body

Recommended

Simple linear designs
Pleated skirts (linear lines)
Slacks
One color head-to-toe
Long sleeves
Medium width belts
Vertical stripes

Discouraged

Large, busy patterns
Horizontal stripes
Pegged pants
Bulky fabrics
Many colors at one time

2. For simple tools one could wear a men's shoe with a slight heal or lifts

There is no dietary, exercise, or sugery to make one taller, though smaller masculine people with larger muscular shoulders, arms, and legs seem larger in stature. Possible body building could add more muscle and add a larger presence.













Other Information
Woman's Sizing Chart https://www.susans.org/wiki/Clothing_Sizes

"Men's ideals for their own physique tends to be "bigger equals better." This preference is consistent with the Freudian construct that men are obsessed with large objects or parts of their anatomy. According to Adam Drewnowski (1995), more men wanted to gain weight rather than lose weight.

Women however tend to find men of average size to be most attractive.

male to female sizing https://www.susans.org/wiki/Clothing_Sizes#Sizing_feminine_attire_to_the_male_body



Appendix A
Average Male
Male weight chart:
Age: 20 to 29 yrs 30 to 39 yrs 40 to 49 yrs 50 to 59 yrs 60 to 69 yrs
kilograms: 76 81.3 82.6 84 83.5
pounds: 168 179 182 185 184
Size of the average guy's biceps: 13 inches (flexed, at around 175 pounds)
Average man's heigh is 5'9"
Their weight is approx. 175 lbs.
They wear a size  [Size 16W]
Their bust 37.35 (AA cup)
Their waist is 32.35
Their hips 37.80
Their shoe size 10.53

Average Female
Female weight chart:
Age: 20 to 29 yrs 30 to 39 yrs 40 to 49 yrs 50 to 59 yrs 60 to 69 yrs
kilograms: 59.8 65.5 67.7 71.7 68.9
pounds: 132 144 149 158 152
Average women
Size of the average gal's biceps: 11 inches (flexed, at around 140 pounds)
Average woman's heigh is 5'4"
Their weight is approx. 140 lbs.
They wear a size [Size 14/12W]
Their bust 35.15 (B cup)
Their waist is 28.15
Their hips 37.75
Their shoe size 9.58
http://www.pipeline.com/~dada3zen/average.htm

Appendix B
Percentages of Breast Sizes
AA cup: 2%
A cup: 15%
B cup: 44%
C cup: 28%
D cup: 10%
DD cup: 1%
http://www.breastoptions.com/average.html
36C-24-36.

Appendix C

Weight Chart for Women
Weight in pounds, based on ages 25-59 with the lowest mortality rate
(indoor clothing weighing 3 pounds and shoes with 1" heels)


Height    Small Frame   Medium Frame   Large Frame      
4'10"   102-111   109-121   118-131      
4'11"   103-113   111-123   120-134      
5'0"   104-115   113-126   122-137      
5'1"   106-118   115-129   125-140      
5'2"   108-121   118-132   128-143      
5'3"   111-124   121-135   131-147      
5'4"   114-127   124-138   134-151      
5'5"   117-130   127-141   137-155      
5'6"   120-133   130-144   140-159      
5'7"   123-136   133-147   143-163      
5'8"   126-139   136-150   146-167      
5'9"   129-142   139-153   149-170      
5'10"   132-145   142-156   152-173      
5'11"   135-148   145-159   155-176      
6'0"   138-151   148-162   158-179   

Weight Chart for Men
Weight in pounds, based on ages 25-59 with the lowest mortality rate
(indoor clothing weighing 5 pounds and shoes with 1" heels)


Height    Small Frame   Medium Frame   Large Frame      
5'2"   128-134   131-141   138-150      
5'3"   130-136   133-143   140-153      
5'4"   132-138   135-145   142-156      
5'5"   134-140   137-148   144-160      
5'6"   136-142   139-151   146-164      
5'7"   138-145   142-154   149-168      
5'8"   140-148   145-157   152-172      
5'9"   142-151   148-160   155-176      
5'10"   144-154   151-163   158-180      
5'11"   146-157   154-166   161-184      
6'0"   149-160   157-170   164-188      
6'1"   152-164   160-174   168-192      
6'2"   155-168   164-178   172-197      
6'3"   158-172   167-182   176-202      
6'4"   162-176   171-187   181-207   
*Ideal Weights according to the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company tables (1983)
Calculating Your Frame Size
Extend your arm in front of your body bending your elbow at a ninety degree angle to your body so that your forearm is parallel to your body.
Keep your fingers straight and turn the inside of your wrist towards your body.
Place your thumb and index finger on the two prominent bones on either side of your elbow, then measure the distance between the bones with a tape measure or calipers.
Compare to the chart below. The chart lists elbow measurements for a medium frame - if your elbow measurement for that particular height is less than the number of inches listed, you are a small frame - if your elbow measurement for that particular height is more than the number of inches listed, your are a large frame.

Elbow Measurements for Medium Frame               
Men   Elbow Measurement    Women   Elbow Measurement      
5'2" - 5'3"   2-1/2" to 2-7/8"   4'10"-4'11"   2-1/4" to 2-1/2"      
5'4" - 5'7"   2-5/8" to 2-7/8"   5'0" - 5'3"   2-1/4" to 2-1/2"      
5'8" - 5'11"   2-3/4" to 3"   5'4" - 5'7"   2-3/8" to 2-5/8"      
6'0" - 6'3"   2-3/4" to 3-1/8"   5/8" - 5'11"   2-3/8" to 2-5/8"      
6'4"   2-7/8" to 3-1/4"   6'0"   2-1/2" to 2-3/4"   

Appendix D

Real Women
Average woman's heigh is 5'4"
Their weight is approx. 140 lbs.
They wear a size 14 dress
Their bust is between 36" and 37" (B cup)
Their waist is between 30" and 34"
Their hips average between 40" and 42"
Their shoe size is estimated to be between 8.5 and 9.5

Barbie (as a human)
Barbie's height would be 7'2"
Her weight would be 101 lbs.
She would wear a size 4 dress
Her bust would be 39" (FF cup)
Her waist would be 19" (same as her head)
Her hips would be 33"
Her shoe size would be a 5
  •  

Laurry

Ken/Kendra, you have done a fantastic job (as usual).

OK, I admit it.  I looked up the Plastic Surgeons...$6-8K to "beef up" the girls...yikes!  Add up to $10K for liposuction.  I wonder if they could just remove it from one place and pump it back in another?  Would it save some bucks?  Oh well, we can all dream, eh?

Great job, K.

......Laurie
Ya put your right foot in.  You put your right foot out.  You put your right foot in and you shake it all about.  You do the Andro-gyney and you turn yourself around.  That's what it's all about.
  •  

Kendall

Thanks for the good comment. I changed it up a bit since I showed you the sneak peek.

Eventually I might add lists of different areas of the body to focuses procedures, knowledge, and tools to masculinize and feminize. Sorta like how I did in the example. But that would be in the future sometime. Not much in a hurry to do that since the data is already there or one link away and there are plenty more topics to write.

I think they can retransplant some fat to some degree. I have seen a few doctors do it on Discovery Health channel and extreme makeover do it. I dont think they do it for breast surgeries. Well if price is an issue, there are always the silicone breastforms if you dont have one, if your looking to beef the girls visually. I know I have 2 pairs, small and large for the times I want just a little, or a whole lot of top. In day to day, I am fine with my A's for now. As for my waist, I am doing Aerobic / Yoga / Pilates an hour a day atm. I also mix in some belly dance exercises.

If I have work done, I will probably drive to another state to get it done since Mississippi isnt known for transgender type plastic surgery.
  •  

Laurry

Quote from: Ken/Kendra on March 22, 2007, 04:54:04 PM
Well if price is an issue, there are always the silicone breastforms if you dont have one, if your looking to beef the girls visually.

Like the real things, don't they usually travel in pairs?

I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist.  >:D

And yes, I have a "set" of breastforms...surely you don't think those in my picture are real??  I could never hide those puppies at work.  FWIW, like I've read has happened to others here, my real ones seem to be growing a little and I'm not on HRT or anything. 

And you're exercising?  I am so envious.  Maybe soon I can get off my lazy fanny and do the same...I have started back on my diet...something about the time change and having light after work...so there's hope yet.

Now, if I can just get rid of that handful of Endomorphic "character"...maybe I should look into the belly dancing too...a friend of mine was doing that for a little while and really liked it.   She said it was a heck of a workout.

Hugs.......Laurie



Ya put your right foot in.  You put your right foot out.  You put your right foot in and you shake it all about.  You do the Andro-gyney and you turn yourself around.  That's what it's all about.
  •  

Kendall

I dont actually belly dance to dance, just repeat a few of the waist techniques as exercises. Waist side-to-side slides, waist circles, rib cage extension and contractions, pelvic swivels and pivots, ab undulating. I noticed most bellydances have nice waists yet still good curves, even the larger ones.

I think I feel a renewed interest in the aerobics / yoga / belly dance during my vacation, and will just have to figure out how to fit it into my work schedule starting next week.

I dont really have a diet program I follow at the moment. There are like 10 popular ones people buy at work. The newest one is The Skinny: How to Fit into Your Little Black Dress Forever . I would say the other popular ones are the Abs Diet (for men and athletic women), You: On a diet, Sonoma Diet, South Beach Diet, French Women Dont get Fat, The Best Life Diet, The Fat Smash Diet, The New Suger Busters, Eat Right 4 Your Type, Body for Life, The Maker's Diet, The GI Diet, And the 6 Day Body Makeover. Well those are the 14 Most popular bought diet books atm that I see disappear off the shelf, help others find, and go through my register.

I havent ever kept track of my calories and nutrition, but after making this post, I might try that also, versus my calories burned by activity.
  •