How can you be transsexual if you don't want sex reassignment surgery?

[Arch]

Oh, wow. That's a lot of crap coming at you from a lot of different directions. I feel for you, Arch.

It's one of the big reasons I stopped going to trans meetings and hanging out with trans men very much. Once I realized that I had much more in common with the men in my gay group, I was only too happy to let the trans world slip out of my fingers. I still have a close trans friend and another couple of trans guys that I see from time to time, but I'm done with the meetings and events.

[aleon515]

It's why I prefer the term "transgender". Of course this is a global term. But it never really was about sex. It's about gender.

--Jay Jay

[Adam (birkin)]

It's why I prefer the term "transgender". Of course this is a global term. But it never really was about sex. It's about gender.

--Jay Jay

Well, it kind of is about sex for a lot of people. Their gender isn't the problem; their biological sex is the issue and that's what being addressed.

[wheat thins are delicious]

Well, it kind of is about sex for a lot of people. Their gender isn't the problem; their biological sex is the issue and that's what being addressed.

Basically.  For me, my sex is what's wrong.  I need to fix that (my sex) not my gender.

[dalebert]

My friend and co-host referred to the subject of this thread as the 'No True Scotsman' Phallasy.

The mis-spelling is of course, purposeful.

[Ayden]

My friend and co-host referred to the subject of this thread as the 'No True Scotsman' Phallasy.

The mis-spelling is of course, purposeful.

Good point. Actually, I think this is something that is good to keep in mind whenever we are interacting with anyone. Thanks for the link.

[TwoSpirit]

its different for each person granted but i personally wavier about things like T. i mean top surgery is a no-brainer, if i could get rid of them tomorrow i would but i'm always concerned about the medical repercussions of T for example knowing full well that i may not be able to get necessary medical procedures because of it and also the long term effects.

Tristan, if you wouldn't mind, could you expound on that? What medical procedures would you be precluded from having if you were on T?

Thanks........30 hours and counting, before the removal of the "evil twins"

[TwoSpirit]

Maybe its because I'm with someone I know I'd rather die than be without, and he's fine with my bits, and maybe its just because the near-apocalyptic loathing I have for my chest outweighs nearly everything else, but I don't want bottom surgery. At all. Ever.

To me, its not the same at all. Because nobody is going to see my screwed up downstairs besides my boyfriend. Its not like my chest, where I can't go out without layers on, even during the disgustingly hot, humid summer. Its not something that literally interferes with my physical comfort and ability to breathe. Its something I piss out of, and something I, to be blunt, really enjoy my boyfriend being in. So, I'm fine with that.

Is it weird? Hell, yeah its weird. I know its weird. I know I'm a gigantic walking joke, and maybe I'm growing a bit as a person or just becoming cynical in a new and exciting way, but I don't care. Let me be a damn joke. Let me be a fake and a bull->-bleeped-<-ter, and whatever else anyone else thinks up. At this point, it barely registers.

And hell, I wear makeup. I'm sure some people one here, though they've never said it, would love to sling "fake" at me, and I don't blame them. I'm not, never have been, and never will be Joe Average.
And I'm totally fine with that.

People too busy judging you as "fake" aren't people I'm all that interested in knowing. People with the bravery to speak their individual truths as you have, I find are the people I want to get to know most. The kind of people I would love to "break bread" with, as "they" say.

Good for you for saying just how you like your body touched. It's your body, it's your right to have it touched or not touched in any way you like. Whatever happened to " My Body My Rights."  When did so many in the LGBTTIQ community decide for themselves that it was just fine and dandy to police every other member's sexual habits, or gender expressions?

Oh we'll rail and scream and protest for days, if a mainstream straight person does it, but if a MOT (member of the tribe) tries to judge another member's way of being, well you end up getting a crowd, judging things they ought not stick their noses into. It's analogous to the DOMA types screaming about how gay marriage harms the family and the institution of marriage, and yet say nothing of dirty old bastards in their 60s and 70s, and even (ug) older marrying children. And yes, at 15 you're still a child. Or at least you should be allowed to be one. Or the multiple marriages that are now fodder for television producers too cheap, or lacking in an sense of creativity, to hire WRITERS. To write good stories. But I digress....

I truly admire your conviction in walking your own path, in spite of judgements that in the end, mean nothing. And are really a reflection of the one judging.

[TwoSpirit]

Ooo this is a fun thread. Since I'm one of those odd balls I feel obligated to make a post.

One of the reasons why I don't like labels or physiological diagnosis when it comes to gender is because there exists in the world a lot of variance. This is truth. I live that truth every day, not just because I came into this world transsexual, but I also came into it with not having the "right" body. Beyond just being transsexual, my body doesn't conform 100% to male or 100% to female. I've had screwy hormones from the get-go among other things.

So to me, someone coming along and not understanding how there can be variation, is simply someone who hasn't realized the whole world is actually full of variation. They're wrapped up in text-book definitions and clear-cut labels.

Until science can grow test tube dicks and attach them to you without rejection you're never going to have the "cis male" body you "should have been born with". Actually, even then, you're never going to have the cis male body. An archeologist unearthing your bones thousands of years from now would see female bones and even your remains will be labeled female. Welcome to reality. Yes, there's some "treatments" that exist that will get you close in an outward physical appearance (to be able to live as your chosen gender in society) and for those that are willing to put their bodies and their health on the line in an attempt to "correct" it, that is entirely their choice.

Obviously, I'm one of the people who feel very strongly about my health. This body is the only one I got in this life and no matter what, I'm going to try to live my life as naturally and healthy as possible. I've already been down the drugs and alcohol route because I had hated my body so much I just wanted to cover up reality. Well, that didn't work for me any more than taking extra hormones did (which is also, technically, taking drugs to cover up the reality). So my reality was I had to find other, alternative ways to deal with the situation. I get that there's people out there who would rather be dead than live with their body as-is. I've already been there too, but realized I wanted to live ... "perfect body" or not. I didn't want to die and I didn't want to risk the health I had to obtain something that in my mind, would always have been a band-aid to a much larger issue. I would never have that "perfect body" so for me, it's taken years to get to a place where I'm comfortable in my own skin and that I can live my life and be mostly happy.

Since, like I said, I didn't start out life like many others do - as a healthy, easily-gendered baby, I came to the conclusion that maybe I really am "normal" just the way I am. Maybe for me, being part of both genders (and looking that part) was the most natural thing I could do. I should just "be me" as they say, and that me has female aspects and male aspects. My brain is definitely one of the male aspects. I know for many of us the brain-body difference is what causes most of our problems. We see ourselves one way, but society doesn't, and our bodies not matching what our minds "see" is another whole layer of issues. "Transition" was developed to help society see transsexuals "correctly" and for transsexuals to be more comfortable in their bodies. It's a treatment plan for a set series of symptoms.

Well, for me, I realized I didn't need transition. Yes, a lot of society is still going to deal with me as female even though I don't look 100% female and I certainly don't feel female. But my own personal perspective is that I am mostly male and that actually is the normal, natural me. Someone calling me "ma'am" at the grocery store doesn't actually change that.

I'm well into my 30s right now and to say that I had a rough time of it as a teenager and in my 20s would be a colossal understatement. I was unaware of anything like "transition" when I was younger. Being the hot-headed, easily depressed youth I was I can't say that I wouldn't have snapped at the chance to walk down that path. But I can say in hindsight that I'm really glad I didn't. That's my personal choice and no one but me has to understand it - even though I don't mind explaining why I made the decision and what impact it has on me and my life. I am a living example that there are many different choices that someone who has been dealt these kind of cards in life can have. And also that in my case, years passing gave me perspective and the mental tools to solve some of my problems that I never could get out of a syringe full of hormones. But that's just me. From what I see, that's not the "majority rule" around here.

People make their own choices for many different and personal reasons.

And just as a side note - I know two, male-born individuals who don't give two-sh*ts about their dicks. One says, and I quote, "The damn thing is an annoyance" and the other simply says, "Yeah, it's there, I piss out of it, that's about it." So don't lump every male into that boat that dicks are everything. Once again, there is much variation in the world and making assumptions and broad statements, even if it may be in the majority, still leaves that minority out there where the usual "rules" don't apply. Transsexuals themselves are a minority where the normal rules don't apply.

FTM is simply an additional term created to apply to males in female bodies and yes, the "T", as I understand it, stand for "to" implying there is a transitional path the individual is on from female TO male. This is why I don't personally call myself FTM. I can certainly relate to you all, which is why I come around here. I can call myself transsexual because by definition that does fit, but I don't even like that label either because of the psychological "disorder" implications. I don't feel I have a disorder. I just feel this is the normal, natural state for me. The only actual label so far that I don't mind is simply the descriptor, androgynous. That pretty much fits for me. So I'm an androgynous dude in a somewhat female body who's really into natural health.

ETA
I forgot to mention I've also known many male-born guys who developed "moobs" and are just fine with them.

I absolutely love the way you think. Aside from my being at least ten years older than you, we could have been twins. I too wasn't "easily gendered" at birth, and that continued throughout my life. And, if I had A cups or double As like an old g/f (ooooh, so jealous) I would not be having surgery. I would rather do it all naturally. And I am also on T, though I would rather not be on T at all. I actually had much bigger muscles before I went on T. I'll see how I feel about taking it after the surgery is over and healed. I've been off for a month now, just to be ready for the surgery, and I was taking a lower and lower dose before going off. I may go back on, and I may stay off. I'll see how I feel.

So, although I am taking a route you won't be taking, I hope you will wish me well, since my  top surgery is about 30 plus hours away. I thoroughly respect the choices you have made for yourself. It is your body, and no one should dictate or judge what you decide to do with *your* body. That should be a decision for you and you alone to make. And I don't understand people having the time on their hands to wonder about and judge (sometimes very harshly) the choices people in similar circumstances  make for themselves. If they aren't stressed about not making certain choices, why should anyone else "worry" (read: judge) what others do? Worry/judge your own body, not others.

Anyway, I completely agree with what you wrote. And I love the way you think.

Peace brother

[aleon515]

Well, it kind of is about sex for a lot of people. Their gender isn't the problem; their biological sex is the issue and that's what being addressed.

Well I see your point. But I see mine as well, in that this is not about sex necessarily-- the problem is that the body doesn't align with the gender actually. I think that's why they are using some other terms now-- genital reassignment surgery or even genital (or gender) confirmation surgery.

--Jay Jay

[TwoSpirit]

I can't (and wouldn't) speak for anyone else, but I don't honestly give a goddamn about my downstairs region. Maybe its because I'm with someone I know I'd rather die than be without, and he's fine with my bits, and maybe its just because the near-apocalyptic loathing I have for my chest outweighs nearly everything else, but I don't want bottom surgery. At all. Ever.

To me, its not the same at all. Because nobody is going to see my screwed up downstairs besides my boyfriend. Its not like my chest, where I can't go out without layers on, even during the disgustingly hot, humid summer. Its not something that literally interferes with my physical comfort and ability to breathe. Its something I piss out of, and something I, to be blunt, really enjoy my boyfriend being in. So, I'm fine with that.

Is it weird? Hell, yeah its weird. I know its weird. I know I'm a gigantic walking joke, and maybe I'm growing a bit as a person or just becoming cynical in a new and exciting way, but I don't care. Let me be a damn joke. Let me be a fake and a bull->-bleeped-<-ter, and whatever else anyone else thinks up. At this point, it barely registers.

Granted, I'm in a huge minority here. I'd rather cut off my hand then go through HRT, as one of the few tiny blessings I've got is an unusually deep voice. I don't want to look like a walking carpet. And hell, I wear makeup. I'm sure some people one here, though they've never said it, would love to sling "fake" at me, and I don't blame them. I'm not, never have been, and never will be Joe Average.
And I'm totally fine with that.

Buck Angel, who is a porn star, is one of the manliest men I have ever met. He gets penetrated all the time, and enjoys it; I doubt anyone would have the courage to walk up to that big muscular dude and say " I don't get you! Why don't you get bottom surgery?"
So you are not weird at all. You are you. Don't let anyone make you feel less than for what YOU want to do with YOUR body. It's got absolutely no bearing on their life. Anyone who criticizes your choices for your body is being a  douchebag. And should stick to working on their own gardens instead of criticizing other people's choice of garden.

[Devlyn]

I know this is a hot topic, but let's respect the rules and keep the language to a dull roar, OK? Thank you, hugs, Devlyn

[insideontheoutside]

I absolutely love the way you think. Aside from my being at least ten years older than you, we could have been twins. I too wasn't "easily gendered" at birth, and that continued throughout my life. And, if I had A cups or double As like an old g/f (ooooh, so jealous) I would not be having surgery. I would rather do it all naturally. And I am also on T, though I would rather not be on T at all. I actually had much bigger muscles before I went on T. I'll see how I feel about taking it after the surgery is over and healed. I've been off for a month now, just to be ready for the surgery, and I was taking a lower and lower dose before going off. I may go back on, and I may stay off. I'll see how I feel.

So, although I am taking a route you won't be taking, I hope you will wish me well, since my  top surgery is about 30 plus hours away. I thoroughly respect the choices you have made for yourself. It is your body, and no one should dictate or judge what you decide to do with *your* body. That should be a decision for you and you alone to make. And I don't understand people having the time on their hands to wonder about and judge (sometimes very harshly) the choices people in similar circumstances  make for themselves. If they aren't stressed about not making certain choices, why should anyone else "worry" (read: judge) what others do? Worry/judge your own body, not others.

Anyway, I completely agree with what you wrote. And I love the way you think.

Peace brother

Thank you And I hope you're recovering nicely!

[Felix]

I will never be able to put myself in the shoes of a guy or girl who doesn't want HRT, but I try to be chill about letting people call their own shots about who they are, the same as I expect people to understand that I am a "real" (trans)guy even though I'm not putting surgery ahead of everything else in my life. I don't think that surgery is an option for me right now because I don't have the ability to put my kid on a shelf. I'm still male, and just because my body didn't get the message when I was a fetus doesn't change that.

Also "transsexual" is not defined by surgery. That's outdated and was never true by consensus to begin with.

[Traivs]

I personally would like to have it all done asap but I know for me thats not possible. I live as a male, I am a guy but I have the wrong parts. Most of the time this isn't as big a problem until it comes to relationships and sex for me. I will one day get everything though right now i am hormone free surgery free thats because of my current situation. I am sending my son to private school which honestly cost more than i can afford so due to that mad house situation and only making like 10.40 an hr American I know it will be way down the road. I bind and I pass more than not. Its not ideal but it's what works for me for now. I am sorry you feel that your alone and that no one understands. I used to hate myself soo much for having the wrong body when I was younger I would do idiotic and dangerous things because i was a coward yet didn't want to live my life in this body. As I grew older I realized how simple minded I was and came up with a plan on how to go about it. Good luck with everything and even though you feel alone know that there are others out there who feel similar as well. 

[justmeinoz]

I am slowly coming to a position where I feel I am transitioning from male to someone who transcending Gender altogether.  So the idea of SRS is not as urgent as when I believed I was becoming a woman per se.   Now that I am starting to identify as the unidentifiable, I am starting to accept what is down there as just what is down there.
I am accepted by society as a woman  on a day-to-day basis, which makes life easier and unless there is a possibility of a sexual or romantic relationship my genitalia is a non-issue.  Any prospective partner will have a fair idea of what I will look like, so if they can't accept it then they are not going to be attractive to me in the long term anyway. 

Karen.