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Please help me.. (the S/O)

Started by suki83, February 29, 2012, 01:50:56 PM

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suki83

I would post in the S/O forum but it seems kind of silly to post where only S/O's are "allowed" to post and I want the opinions and advice of transgenders themselves.
My husband revealed to me probably five months into our marriage (last August, mind you) that he feels he is a female in a male body. (First he stated an interest in just dressing like a female but the other revelation was soon on the heels of this one.) I've been as supportive as I can possibly be, but there's a lot of things I'm unclear about that I'm hoping someone can help me clarify.

For one, he is the least feminine person I know. In no one does he ever act in a stereo-typically female way; in fact, his personality is more of the stereotypical male, where he tends to be thoughtless at times, is VERY unemotional or sensitive, not terribly passionate or empathetic, blah blah. It just is confusing to me that he can feel like he's a female inside but he doesn't FEEL like a female, does that make sense? He says that it's the estrogen in the hormones that would get him there, but in my head it's like, if you feel like you're a female shouldn't you generally already FEEL like a female? Please correct me if I'm wrong, like I said it's just confusing to me and I need the words of people who know.

I support him unconditionally when it comes to him dressing as a female and growing his hair out (I actually wanted this anyway) and getting his eyebrows done, painting his toes, etc; the only part we come to a head at is the part where he claims is the only thing he feels he needs to be "validated" as a female, which is to have breasts. (To clarify, he is currently looking for therapy and/or support groups to talk about all this with and is not at this point in time pursuing hormones because of our marriage). And of course for me, the one thing I don't think I could handle would be a drastic physical change like breasts. (He does not wish to get rid of his penis, ever. Claims he loooves it.)

One other thing I'd like feedback on: I've read differing takes on what can happen to one's sexual preference after beginning to transition and want your input on it. Sometimes I read that a lot of the time, a MTF who identified as a straight male will end up discovering they are a straight female once they transition, and then I read things that disagree with this. My husband at this time says he is 100% straight with zero interest in men, but I wonder if he begins transitioning if he would discover a sexual attraction for men (possibly because of taking the hormones, I wonder?) Ultimately, if it came down to it and he discovered that he just HAS to have breasts to be happy in life and I discover I just can't deal with it, I would kind of rather he DID realize he liked men because it would make our separation easier for him. I hate to think that because I can't handle it, I have to leave this person who can't imagine a life without me in it. I would feel tremendous guilt, and yet nor do I believe I should stay in a marriage with someone I cannot be physically attracted to due if he transitions to the extent he desires to.

As an aside, this is all made ridiculously more difficult because I'm having our first baby sometime in April/early May. He already has a 3.5 year old son that he has to do visitation with (let alone the fact that I've been as much a mother to this boy as his bio mom, since he turned 2, and if we split up I would have to say goodbye to him, too), I can't imagine having myself, him, and our daughter having to suffer through that, it's the last thing I want for her and us both.

Sorry this is so lengthy and likely confusing, I don't really have anyone I can talk to about this other than my husband. Thank you so much in advance for your responses.
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lilacwoman

he could just be cycling through highs and lows of T that is converted to E and gives the feelings of wanting female sex parts like breasts but as he enjoys his penis he isn't TS.

There is info about T/E cycling online and its what makes guys think they are women and go all the way through sex chnage only to regret it the moment the loss of T removes the E and the cycling.

If he's worth keeping you could accommodate his crossdressing a bit but if the idea of breasts freaks you out and ruins your social life then its time to split.

generally speaking I've not seen anything to say that generally speaking older Mtfs become lesbians and generally speaking I'm inclined to disagree with that generalisation.
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Eve87

Hello Suki,
What a terrible situation to be in :( I'll share my views on your points as a fairly classical textbook transsexual girl:

First on your SO not having a stereotypical female way of doing things. This is something that can be attributed to a ton of things. One of the big reasons being socialization. Hormones have a hand in it as well. But growing up as a boy and a young man more often than not means that expressing emotion is not something we are really taught to do - we are often punished for doing it. People often roll their eyes when I say this but it is so true and it's really very insidious; to the point where I am still somewhat surprised to get a hug when I am down instead of an uninterested slap on my back. For a somewhat "later" transitioner I'm sure It takes an even longer time to unlearn gender "indoctrination" like that. Of course this varies wildly depending on one's environment.
Estrogen does affect emotions and empathy in various ways but I'd say for the most part (at least from my experience) we actually have to re-learn that it's okay to be "mushy" and emotional. Doesn't happen overnight, took me quite a few months. There's also the fact that empathy and emotion vary wildly in natal women as well even disregarding the differences between genders in socialization. I believe it's a myth that all women are inherently that much more empathic and thoughtful. I just think women are more inclined to be so because of socialization, gender roles and effects of estrogen. Thoughtfulness is something that grew for me personally due to experiencing emotional surges on estrogen and being subjected to sexism (oh god it's suddenly everywhere) and all that. Lets you relate infinitely easier.

Breasts and genitalia are such personal and individual matters I can't really say anything. If your SO ever does get on HRT, the estrogen influx will trigger breast development. It's very gradual though, as I'm sure you know, so it doesn't have to be a hugely drastic change.

About the orientation shifts. HRT does not inherently change orientations. If that were true people would "combat" homosexuality with HRT. That is not how it works. Many trans women do "switch", though, and I think that is because of an increased level of comfort in a new gender role as well as actually going through the physical changes. Trans women that did not like men pre-transition may be open to the idea now that the relationship would be M+F instead of M+M. I'm wording this badly, but that is roughly how I feel. I had no interest in boys at all growing up and I genuinely never wanted a boyfriend. A year and a half into transition now and living comfortably as a young woman I still vastly prefer other women but I am somewhat open to the idea of dating an exceptional guy. Maybe it's because of the change I mentioned earlier (never was interested in a boy/boy relationship - and no, this is not homophobia) or maybe it's just because of all the exposure to gay/lesbian culture and gender theory that I just don't really *care* anymore, I don't know. Transition I feel has made me "theoretically" pansexual since I feel ruling out a potential partner based on gender is potentially a prime way to lose out on a great match. But the attraction to men is somehow still just nowhere near the attraction to women. Yeah, I'm 24 and still confused. =P Anyway, yes, orientation has been known to change but it's not something that happens from just HRT.
There's also the fact that for someone growing up as a boy in our society, homophobia and mysogyny are hammered into *all* of us. Coming out as a girl is massively scary because we have always been taught that femininity in a boy is the most terrible thing on the planet. It is socially punished very brutally by most peer groups, crossdressers are a joke universally and women who dress as men aren't even really called crossdressers. That is how deeply internalized these kinds of fears can be and as a result even if your SO actually has some attraction to men I fear there is a good chance it is not going to come out very easily.
Of course I am probably completely wrong in this case, I'm just sharing my 2c.

If your SO decides to transition and you can't find yourself being attracted to a trans woman, yeah, that is a painful problem :( Isn't really anyone's fault either which makes it so sad.
Therapy is a good idea and you should join in the sessions if you're both up to that. Beware though, quite a few "gender therapists" are quite clueless. I wouldn't just go to the closest one.




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Sophie

Reading your post has made me think how my coming out to my wife was. She was very confused about all of it has well. It's a lot to try to understand.

My wife had the same concerns about how "male" I appeared and manly I acted. I felt feminine on the inside, but on the other hand I had learned has a small child to act boyish even overly so was the best way to hide. My father wasn't tolerant of his son acting like a sissy and I would be spanked for playing with dolls and yelled at for wanting to only do things with my mother and grandmother. For me looking back, I had acted the part so long I honestly hadn't a clue how to truly be a normal female. I had to reevaluate my life and what was normal. It didn't take hormones for me to begin to find myself, my feminine side. My wife and I had talk about my feelings a full year before I began Hormones. Over that year I started to feel comfortable being the person I had always hide from everyone. I will say the hormones did help me a lot. My understanding is hormones effects us all some what differently.  I have read that in some ( I have no ideas to what percentage at all) that switching sexual preference happens. Just to be clear I have personally always been attracted to women before and after.

The idea of having my male parts to me is depressing. When I decided over a year ago that I would eventually work through all the steps in my transition, I knew then at some point I would finally have worked my way to surgery. Thats my desire, not every ones. There are people that want to transition and keep there male bits. There are people on this very forum that have and seem happy. The fact that your husband wants therapy and hormones to me means that he really believes this is something he wants/needs.

I think you and your husband need to have a serious heart to heart and figure out what each of you needs/wants and if you can move forward. It seems like you feel like from what you wrote that your hoping he really isn't truly a female trapped in a mans body. Perhaps, he really is confused and not sure himself. Truth of the matter is you need him to figure out what he wants/needs and you need to decide whatever that is if you want to be with that person. My wife and I went through this and to be quite honest I thought I was going to loose her. It took time and patients on both our parts to work through it. But she had to be ok with me being a woman on some level to move forward. If she hadn't been I would have had to accept that. It wouldn't have been fair of me to expect her to want a woman when she married a man. For me it was just too difficult for me to stay a man any longer. I wish you the best.

Sophie
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Jeneva


I'll ask Shannon to weigh in on this one too if she has time (if for no other reasons that so you don't feel like you are alone).

Quote from: suki83 on February 29, 2012, 01:50:56 PM
For one, he is the least feminine person I know. In no one does he ever act in a stereo-typically female way; in fact, his personality is more of the stereotypical male, where he tends to be thoughtless at times, is VERY unemotional or sensitive, not terribly passionate or empathetic, blah blah. It just is confusing to me that he can feel like he's a female inside but he doesn't FEEL like a female, does that make sense?
Is it a mask?  Even once your spouse told you, they may need some time to feel comfortable letting down protective walls.  Some MTFs are able to ACT like alpha males but that doesn't invalidate their true self.  They do it as a form protection or camouflage.  Personally I was no good at it, but some do.

Quote from: suki83 on February 29, 2012, 01:50:56 PM
I support him unconditionally when it comes to him dressing as a female and growing his hair out (I actually wanted this anyway) and getting his eyebrows done, painting his toes, etc; the only part we come to a head at is the part where he claims is the only thing he feels he needs to be "validated" as a female, which is to have breasts. (To clarify, he is currently looking for therapy and/or support groups to talk about all this with and is not at this point in time pursuing hormones because of our marriage). And of course for me, the one thing I don't think I could handle would be a drastic physical change like breasts. (He does not wish to get rid of his penis, ever. Claims he loooves it.)
If they aren't looking at HRT then where will the breasts come from?  Breast Augmentation surgery?  Personally I have always wanted 'that part' gone, but an inclusive definition of transsexuality doesn't require it.

Quote from: suki83 on February 29, 2012, 01:50:56 PM
One other thing I'd like feedback on: I've read differing takes on what can happen to one's sexual preference after beginning to transition and want your input on it. Sometimes I read that a lot of the time, a MTF who identified as a straight male will end up discovering they are a straight female once they transition, and then I read things that disagree with this. My husband at this time says he is 100% straight with zero interest in men, but I wonder if he begins transitioning if he would discover a sexual attraction for men (possibly because of taking the hormones, I wonder?)
Personally I don't think HRT does anything to orientation.  I think the HRT does sometimes give people the courage to be their true selves.  Really the only thing you can do here is believe what they tell you.  I've had no orientation changes at all.

Blessed Be!

Jeneva Caroline Samples
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spacial

Hi Suki

I'm sure everything necessary, in response to your post, has already been said.

But I will like to say that I and I know others here are supportive of how your're feeling. We are a very diverse community. In so many ways. But we are all here to give and receive support.

Whatever else happens, we will do our best to support you.
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grrl1nside

Hi Suki,

First off, big hugs to you. This must be a very challenging time for both of you. Please remember to take care of yourself because you cannot be there for each other if you aren't there for you.

I asked my spouse what she thought and she said she didn't really have any advice because I was fairly femme so it didn't seem so stark although that is not strictly true. I was much more soft and what she calls 'femme' in private which she loves, but I used to drive her nuts in public and especially around family where it quite literally seemed like I was a completely different person. All of the sudden, I would be much more biting in my humour and the soft side she loved would disappear. Truth is, I knew it and hated it too but it isn't just socialization at work. It quite literally is about safety. I know for myself, all the hurt from teasing and knowing there was something different (and back then I thought there was something wrong with me) meant it was easier to quite literally turn the emotion switch off. I can quite literally remember shoving parts of my self in a nice little box for safe-keeping. The problem is that it isn't so easy to remember how to reopen it over time. Where did that key go??? Over time the box gets full and it either starts to seep out the sides or the box breaks. Locking it all up makes it easy to lose connection with feeling and emotions that are positive. Negative feelings were much easier.

Also with all the difficulty and internal turmoil involved with growing up, I became very good at trying to be a male. Maybe, if I just play rugby all these feelings will go away. Maybe when I develop through adolescence in all its rather challenging ways, these feelings will change. So, I would go through rounds and rounds of bargaining with my self. When this happens, x will go away. So, I'll put blinders on and repress everything until I get there. Oh, that didnt' work. Next bargain and more blinders. Oh that didn't work. 40 years of bargaining which ended up with an amazing wife and 2 lovely kids but all I found out was that it doesn't go away and it just gets stronger. My wife and I are still together by the way and now I'm trying to get in touch with a service provider (but living in a very rural isolated community is a wee bit of a challenge). When I came out to her without the hints, she had to go through the grieving process, but it didn't take long because as she just told me "it just made sense."

I don't know if any of this helps and there is so much more but I think you have been given quite a bit to think about over the past few posts so I'll just wish you and your significant other all you need during this time.

Wishing you much peace.
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Catherine Sarah

Hi Suki,

Welcome to Susan's. I hope you have been able to get some insights into what has been said. There is nothing more I can say on the matter, as all these lovely, experienced women ahead of me, have said it all.

I just wanted to give you a  :icon_hug: for being such an outstanding woman, as you are. You need just as much love and support as your husband. I'm very confident, you'll find it here.

Keep in touch and let us know how .. you ... are coping.

Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine




If you're in Australia and are subject to Domestic Violence or Violence against Women, call 1800-RESPECT (1800-737-7328) for assistance.
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JoanneB

Appearing to be the least feminine in behavior, in my case, was all part of the grand deception since I had to pretend to be a guy from the age of 4. You get really good at after a while. You act like a jerk, take big risks and deny all emotions except hate and rage. Even easier if physically between genetics and testosterone you are 150 lbs and 5'9 at the age of 12. In a vain attempt to keep from being an even bigger target in high school you learn to bury anything and everything that might even be remotely considered as female to keep it from being used as a weapon against you.

Your spouse in a sense of finally finding freedom and acceptance in at least one person, you, may be unleashing all sorts of deeply held fantasies and wishes. I cannot stress enough the importance of finding a knowledgeable gender therapist to help sort out all these feelings she is experiencing. For me, having God showing me a unique TG group some 90 miles away and joining it was a complete life changer. I may have known since the age of 4 or so I wanted to be a girl, researched like crazy as a 12 y/o back in the 60's, experimented twice in my 20's on transitioning, in a 30 year relationship with a now post-op MTF, thought I knew it all and had no need for a group or therapy. WRONG.

I spent decades building an impenetrable wall between my two selves. One well guarded checkpoint existed between the two. Joanne was occasionally issued a day pass but was well surrounded by the Stasi to assure her return by nightfall. Two years ago, almost to this day, I issued the decree to tear down that wall. It's a very very well built wall and has been a struggle. It's been built, rebuilt and fortified as needed over 50 years. But it is slowly coming down.

Neither myself or my wife knows where or how this struggle will end. The process has been as painfull for her, perhaps more so, than it has been for me. She knows how it ultimately ended for her and can only surmise how it will for me. I am focused on reunification of self. I know I am in no position to judge who is more dominant. Like at times I know my wife better then she does herself, I know she often knows me better than I do. Yet I often surprise her. All this was certainly a surprise for us both after 30+ years.
.          (Pile Driver)  
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peky

#9
I love you all
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Cadence Jean

Suki, my heart goes out to you.  This will not be an easy thing to deal with, no matter how your husband as a woman over the course of his transition(if that is even the course that he takes).  It's an extremely confusing time for everyone involved, but I think it eventually settles down into a "new normal" sort of mode over time.  He will have a period of self-discovery(I'm going to talk like he will be transitioning) - that will involve lots of different things.  Different clothes.  Different makeup.  Different hair.  Different attitudes and postures toward others.  If you would like to stay with him, it will be super important to be patient with him.  What he says is concrete one week may be different the next.  It's a very fluid process, and it will be key to try to let go and flow with him.  Obviously, your personal boundaries will need to be observed, but things like holding him to past statements won't do him any good.  The marriage is a key agreement between you and him, but I personally think that's an agreement that you'll support this other person no matter what may come - not try to keep them stuck in a rigid definition of who they are.

I can talk to a couple of your concerns.  I was never pegged as being trans by anyone who knows me - they were all shocked when I came out to them.  I wasn't stereotypical either - I was effeminate and sensitive, but to a degree.  During transition, I came to the realization that my psychology has been geared toward (what I would consider) female responses and actions - like comforting another, like empathy, like crying when happy, crying with another person, making breakfast, rubbing my partners feet, listening to her talk it out, requiring love to enjoy sex, treating women as people not sex objects, etc.  But I found that my biology would hinder those actions and responses - I couldn't cry when I was deeply moved, I couldn't look at a woman without thinking about ->-bleeped-<-ing her, I didn't have it in me to treat my partner well, I didn't get enough emotional gratification by easing someone else's suffering.  Now that I'm coming out the other end of hormone therapy, I'm finding that my biology is lining up with my psychology.  It makes sense to me now why love and tenderness are so important.  I FEEL it now, it's a physical sensation to me, in my stomach and my chest.  The core of my being has moved from my penis to my chest, sort of like "where the heart is" kind of feeling.  So, I guess what I'm saying is, your husband may be right that some of the female responses and actions will come more easily and naturally for him once he is on hormone therapy.  For me, it wasn't so much that I FELT female prior to HT, it was that I hated feeling male and I knew there was something better - that male was wrong, and female was right for me.  Actually going on HT and finding that I LOVED the affects of it confirmed for me that I was correct.

As for sexual preference, I can tell you about mine and about some of my transfriends.  I personally have always been primarily attracted to women.  I have been attracted to a few men in my life, and that's like the literal count - three. :)  So, I consider myself a lesbian.  As I've gone though transition, I haven't found that to change.  In fact, it's enforced it for me.  I empathize more with women now.  Maleness is so foreign to me - I don't understand it.  I mean, I understand how many men function on a general level(having been there), but I just don't get it - I can't place myself in that mindset.  I really couldn't partner with someone so different...plus, I find male physical traits to be turn offs - like body hair, muscles, etc.  I guess I have to agree with the other poster that I kind of like the tasteful attention that certain men give me now - it's flattering.  But I can't see myself with them.  Now, I've known other transgirls who have been strictly into men, but then later turned to women after transition.  I know other girls who started liking women, but changed over to men.  And some just stay bi. :)  It's really hard to say how HT and transition(I think sexual orientation is psychological as well as biological) will affect your husband's orientation.  It really could go either way, and I can't think of a way to predict it.  It might be better not to worry about it, since it really is outside of his or your control.

I wanted to mention too, since you brought up children - children have superfluid gender recognition.  Especially when they are young.  My daughter, who is seven, has totally went with my transition.  She doesn't question it.  To her, it's just something that some daddy's do.  She does feel sad some times that she's losing a daddy, but I try to remind her that she's gaining another mommy who loves her just as much as her daddy did. :)  I like to think that it's improved our relationship - I'm more positive with her, encouraging, nurturing, and patient.  I care more about how my actions affect her, and I place more emphasis on comforting her when she needs it(because now I realize how nice that feels).

Um, I hope that wasn't too much word vomit to bombard you with. :)  I guess I felt like I wanted to share some of my experience because your post really stirred some emotions in me.  Like I said, this is not an easy thing to cope with.  I know what I've put other people through and what I've put myself through - but in the end, there was no other option but to do it for me.  It may be the same with your husband.  If you want to hit me up some time, friend me on FB at http://www.facebook.com/cadencejean and I'll be happy to answer any other questions that you have.  I can only speak from my own experience and what I've heard my transfriends confide in me, but maybe that will help in your situation?

Btw, finding a good therapist is mucho important!  I wish you the best in this journey - it will be bumpy, but, at the same time, it's an amazing experience if you can go along with him on it!  Laters!

Quote from: suki83 on February 29, 2012, 01:50:56 PM
I would post in the S/O forum but it seems kind of silly to post where only S/O's are "allowed" to post and I want the opinions and advice of transgenders themselves.
My husband revealed to me probably five months into our marriage (last August, mind you) that he feels he is a female in a male body. (First he stated an interest in just dressing like a female but the other revelation was soon on the heels of this one.) I've been as supportive as I can possibly be, but there's a lot of things I'm unclear about that I'm hoping someone can help me clarify.

For one, he is the least feminine person I know. In no one does he ever act in a stereo-typically female way; in fact, his personality is more of the stereotypical male, where he tends to be thoughtless at times, is VERY unemotional or sensitive, not terribly passionate or empathetic, blah blah. It just is confusing to me that he can feel like he's a female inside but he doesn't FEEL like a female, does that make sense? He says that it's the estrogen in the hormones that would get him there, but in my head it's like, if you feel like you're a female shouldn't you generally already FEEL like a female? Please correct me if I'm wrong, like I said it's just confusing to me and I need the words of people who know.

I support him unconditionally when it comes to him dressing as a female and growing his hair out (I actually wanted this anyway) and getting his eyebrows done, painting his toes, etc; the only part we come to a head at is the part where he claims is the only thing he feels he needs to be "validated" as a female, which is to have breasts. (To clarify, he is currently looking for therapy and/or support groups to talk about all this with and is not at this point in time pursuing hormones because of our marriage). And of course for me, the one thing I don't think I could handle would be a drastic physical change like breasts. (He does not wish to get rid of his penis, ever. Claims he loooves it.)

One other thing I'd like feedback on: I've read differing takes on what can happen to one's sexual preference after beginning to transition and want your input on it. Sometimes I read that a lot of the time, a MTF who identified as a straight male will end up discovering they are a straight female once they transition, and then I read things that disagree with this. My husband at this time says he is 100% straight with zero interest in men, but I wonder if he begins transitioning if he would discover a sexual attraction for men (possibly because of taking the hormones, I wonder?) Ultimately, if it came down to it and he discovered that he just HAS to have breasts to be happy in life and I discover I just can't deal with it, I would kind of rather he DID realize he liked men because it would make our separation easier for him. I hate to think that because I can't handle it, I have to leave this person who can't imagine a life without me in it. I would feel tremendous guilt, and yet nor do I believe I should stay in a marriage with someone I cannot be physically attracted to due if he transitions to the extent he desires to.

As an aside, this is all made ridiculously more difficult because I'm having our first baby sometime in April/early May. He already has a 3.5 year old son that he has to do visitation with (let alone the fact that I've been as much a mother to this boy as his bio mom, since he turned 2, and if we split up I would have to say goodbye to him, too), I can't imagine having myself, him, and our daughter having to suffer through that, it's the last thing I want for her and us both.

Sorry this is so lengthy and likely confusing, I don't really have anyone I can talk to about this other than my husband. Thank you so much in advance for your responses.
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