Are some of us kidding?

[Rubberneck]

I've noticed a lot of mild mannered or weak or depressed or chubby or unactractive guys confusing their personalities and temperament with transgenderness.

Half the males in the world would be transgendered if this were an accurate view. I'm sorry to be so exclusive but personally, I agonised over my descision to transition. I think that other people should have the curtesy to do the same. There are some males who really are better off living as females. Some who are just hitching a ride.

The diagnoses in order to recieve hrt used to be whether you'd have a good chance of making a convincing female. Now it's just self-dianosis.

I'd be happy if it went back to the other way. Even if they told me no. I'd definately seek a second and third opinion first before I gave it up. But I really think it was a better way.

Here's a hint. If being transgender has made you a political extremist, then this probably concerns you.

[Alainaluvsu]

I agree with this somewhat. I dont know why some would want to transition when their presentation is not even close to female. People may say "well there are butch women out there" but i bet they arent entirely proud to be female either, and i bet if you give them a choice between 1 or the other they may not care.

Not that there is something wrong with butch females, but why insist on being called female if it doesnt really bring any difference in your life, but instead caused much more negative interactions with society.

You dont need to wear makeup to be a girl, you dont need to like girls clothes to be a girl. At the same time youdont need to be a girl to like those things either. You just need to be a girl if you ARE a girl... meaning if it makes you comfortable with society to be one, then be one. But if in your heart you are trans just to do somethig girly, the world will only see you that way.


Flame away, im sure its coming but these are just my opinions.

[Jeneva]

Not that there is something wrong with butch females, but why insist on being called female if it doesnt really bring any difference in your life, but instead caused much more negative interactions with society.

You dont need to wear makeup to be a girl, you dont need to like girls clothes to be a girl. At the same time youdont need to be a girl to like those things either. You just need to be a girl if you ARE a girl... meaning if it makes you comfortable with society to be one, then be one. But if in your heart you are trans just to do somethig girly, the world will only see you that way.

You just answered your own question.  We ARE women and so we expect to be treated like one.  We don't CHOOSE to get those negative interactions they just are who we are. 

When I am at home alone I will dress however is most comfortable because I have nothing to prove.  Since I work at home and we only go out two or three times a week, I usually wear jeans and a tee.  If we go to Tractor Supply again I will wear jeans and a tee.  Anywhere else and I likely dress to "fit" the image you think we should have.  Why does the fact I wear my jeans and a tee when working at home alone or about to do physical labor (hauling feed bags) mean I am not female?  I wear more makeup that most people we socialize with, but because I don't wear drag level makeup I'm not feminine?

Lets ask an even better question, what drives people to seek to disqualify others from their experiences?  Does it harm you if others are also trans?  How so?  More trans people means better visibility and therefore more equality.

[Skyanne]

Oh dear, I guess I'm not attractive enough to be a proper woman. Time to go back to being a miserable man. Wish I'd known before I'd started and got all happy with myself and stuff, oh well. It's all about looks.

[HeatherR]

Lets ask an even better question, what drives people to seek to disqualify others from their experiences?  Does it harm you if others are also trans?  How so?  More trans people means better visibility and therefore more equality.

This.

I have lived 29 years of my life hiding in fear.  I have kept a secret that has torn me apart.  My youth was a shadow game of deceit...  I guess I've just been weak and mild-tempered...  Time to start lifting weights again... It is easy to pretend, since I've practiced all my life.

[Miki]

I'm sorry to be so exclusive but personally, I agonised over my descision to transition. I think that other people should have the curtesy to do the same. There are some males who really are better off living as females. Some who are just hitching a ride.

I've experienced this mindset before.  The "prove it" mentality that prompts some folks to be judgmental ->-bleeped-<-s about someone else's personal journey.  Phrases like "hitching a ride" are red flags.

That fact that other people are not sharing your own agonizing experience should be something you celebrate, not tear down because they did not suffer like you did.  Wishing suffering or agony on anyone as a way to validate their choices for you or make them seem "worthy" is, in my opinion, stunningly cruel for no reason.  I should have the courtesy to agonize, so you feel better?  Right.

The short answer is that my diagnosis and resultant activities to address it are absolutely none of your business and far outside the bounds of your personal judgement.

"I don't know why some would want to transition when their presentation is not even close to female."

You say "want" like it is a simple, yes or no choice for everyone, like deciding which flavor of ice cream to order.  That feels a lot like dumbing a life-altering decision path down to the lowest common denominator so you can take judgmental pot-shots at people that aren't up to your personal standards.  Well played.

I doubt I will ever pass seamlessly.  Maybe, but it is unlikely, and I am ok with that.  It is not like I have much of a choice in the matter, I cannot shrink.  So I reconcile myself to that fact, and move ahead knowing the challenge that represents.  Shall I stop?  Shall I quit once again so that you can feel better about finger pointing? 

I was told once, "You should give up on transitioning, you'll never pass and that makes it that much harder for the rest of us."  Oh, gee, sorry, I don't make the cut, am below the curve on the Potentially Pretty™ sliding scale?

Ridiculous. 

My need to be myself and the path I am on to feeling complete and happy in my own skin have nothing to do with anyone else outside my family and friends. I am not obligated to meet some arbitrary poster-girl TG standards established by the internet.  Seriously...

It's not about you.

I'll face enough actual challenges on my journey.  Manufactured ones like this are just silly.

-Miki

[tekla]

The OP is an amazingly self-centered perspective, even for this board.

[Devlyn]

When the reputation system comes back, I'm revisiting this thread and giving out applauds. If this thread doesn't get deleted, that is. Hugs, Devlyn

[MacKenzie]

I agree with this somewhat. I dont know why some would want to transition when their presentation is not even close to female.

  Yeah I agree with this too. I'm probably gonna get flamed for saying this but imho those ts girls that don't care about their appearance and fit perfectly into the stereotypical "man in a dress" give those that do take the time to look convincingly female a bad name. I think some trans women just want the best of both sex's but unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

  I don't agree with the "if your ugly you shouldn't transition" bit, again this goes back to taking pride in your appearance. Anyone can look feminine even pretty if they work hard enough, but hormones are not enough and femininity isn't gonna be handed to you. I think this is the reason why so many end up being butchy unkempt trans girls because they're lazy and don't wanna put the effort in. 

*Flame Shield ON* 

[Rabbit]

I've noticed a lot of mild mannered or weak or depressed or chubby or unactractive guys confusing their personalities and temperament with transgenderness.

I have been all of these things at one point in my life or another... I used to be 245 pounds (at 5'9").

If you look at me before, my presentation was very much "male". Why? Because... well... I'm realistic. Why would I dress like a girl if I looked like a man?

To say you are "more trans" than someone because you were born shorter, or with better facial features, or whatever other physical characteristic that makes you pass better is simply.... shallow.

Yes, it is great that some are able to pass better than others or make hotter girls than others... some pass before hormones even. But this isn't about how close to a girl you look, this is an issue of the mind. Some simply have a harder road ahead of them than others.

On the other hand... I do see some blaming many of their problems on being transgendered. Lack of career or goals or everything else going wrong. Sure, being trans doesn't make life easy... but it also doesn't give you a free pass to give up and dodge responsibility for yourself.

But, again, some simply have it harder than others. For some, being trans really is the source of all their problems... family abandoning them... discrimination...  crippling depression. Had I not had the support of my family, I would have no where near what I do today (I would most likely not be here at all).

Really, in the trans world... it isn't nice to throw stones... chances are you will only be hitting people already on the ground. The community really doesn't need to be "brought down a peg"... suicide and depression are high enough thanks.

[Miki]

  Yeah I agree with this too. I'm probably gonna get flamed for saying this but imho those ts girls that don't care about their appearance and fit perfectly into the stereotypical "man in a dress" give those that do take the time to look convincingly female a bad name. I think some trans women just want the best of both sex's but unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

  I don't agree with the "if your ugly you shouldn't transition" bit, again this goes back to taking pride in your appearance. Anyone can look feminine even pretty if they work hard enough, but hormones are not enough and femininity isn't gonna be handed to you. I think this is the reason why so many end up being butchy unkempt trans girls because they're lazy and don't wanna put the effort in. 

*Flame Shield ON* 

Is that a TG issue, though? Or a laziness issue?  Linking the two automatically creates some unknown standard to meet.  Pride in your appearance is just that. 

If I put myself out there, post a pic to one of the "Am I ever going to pass?" or "Before and after" threads, then I am inviting comment.  I am asking members of this community to pass judgement, and from what I have read, that judgment comes with advice, tips, tricks, recommendations and the sharing of experiences that aren't malicious or cruel.

It is the whole "giving the rest of us a bad name" part of this debate that makes my head explode.  My transition path doesn't come with a social contract with everyone else in this community, wherein I agree to always put forth my best effort in order to live up to someone else's standards. 

My best effort should always be about me, not you. 

If I am being lazy, then you calling me out for it and offering some suggestions that are beneficial to me, eh, that is actually ok.  If I am failing to meet some level of effort standard that you are not communicating, and you're condemning me for just not being pretty enough?    Not so ok with that.  That's just me, though.

I get what you're saying, even though I disagree with facets of it, but it strikes me that pointing a finger at someone else and saying, "What you are doing makes my life harder somehow." can come off as a very selfish perspective that does nothing but divide and label.

Aren't there already enough facets of transitioning that label, judge and condemn without adding more?

-Miki

[Rubberneck]

I agree with this somewhat. I dont know why some would want to transition when their presentation is not even close to female. People may say "well there are butch women out there" but i bet they arent entirely proud to be female either, and i bet if you give them a choice between 1 or the other they may not care.

Not that there is something wrong with butch females, but why insist on being called female if it doesnt really bring any difference in your life, but instead caused much more negative interactions with society.

You dont need to wear makeup to be a girl, you dont need to like girls clothes to be a girl. At the same time youdont need to be a girl to like those things either. You just need to be a girl if you ARE a girl... meaning if it makes you comfortable with society to be one, then be one. But if in your heart you are trans just to do somethig girly, the world will only see you that way.


Flame away, im sure its coming but these are just my opinions.

I agree. Everyone wants to be a girl. It doesn't mean they are one or should be one.
I'm sure it's quite normal for women in muslim or other male dominated societys to wish they were a man. Just as it's normal in this society for many men to want to be a girl.

Since when do males not like make up and dresses and feeling sexy?

It's just whether it's a viable option is my point

[Devlyn]

I know full well that only Susan and the Staff can tell someone to leave. However, if you are not ready to support men in dresses you don't belong here.

[Rubberneck]

The OP is an amazingly self-centered perspective, even for this board.

The very word 'perspective' does imply the view from the self.

thanks for the personl attack

[Rubberneck]

I know full well that only Susan and the Staff can tell someone to leave. However, if you are not ready to support men in dresses you don't belong here.

I'm fine with men in dresses. I urge the staff to read what i've written and not what others are saying i've written.

[Beverley]

I'm fine with men in dresses. I urge the staff to read what i've written and not what others are saying i've written.

They will be along shortly because I have reported this thread. On reflection I regard this as out and out trolling and I have removed my postings from it.

I am done with this...

[Constance]

 

I'm staff and I've read both what you've written and what others have posted in reply.

I'm asking all parties involved to reign themselves in, respond instead of react, and keep it civil. Let's please avoid any further personal attacks. From my point of view, there's been several so far here.

[Skyanne]

I agree. Everyone wants to be a girl. It doesn't mean they are one or should be one.
I'm sure it's quite normal for women in muslim or other male dominated societys to wish they were a man. Just as it's normal in this society for many men to want to be a girl.

Since when do males not like make up and dresses and feeling sexy?

It's just whether it's a viable option is my point

You go tell the guys over in the FTM thread they all secretly want to be women. I'm sure they'll love to hear your views.

[Rubberneck]

Even if you are right,  what business is it of yours?

Because it affects me. That's why it's my business. Most of the hopelessly unconvincing transenders are vicious activists. How the hell is that not my business? If i'm being represented by people I feel are damaging my well being and acceptance in society. But that's beside the point. What's really gone on here is that because you disagree with me i must be shut down and stopped from voicing an opinion.

[MacKenzie]

I'm fine with men in dresses. I urge the staff to read what i've written and not what others are saying i've written.

  We need a drag queen section for this forum!