Quote from: Jeannette on May 29, 2007, 05:41:50 PM
Quote from: Katia on May 28, 2007, 10:12:29 PM
As far as spiritual [belief], i have none.
Now let me enlighten you with my views. As far as I'm concerned Atheism, basically, is not the belief that God does not exists. It is the belief that THERE IS NO GOD.
The statement that God does not exist is illogical from the very beginning and therefore cannot be proven per se. Since to make it logical and philosophically correct one (theists or atheists) must assume and presume from the premise THAT THERE IS A GOD.
Likewise, if you say THAT THERE IS NO MONEY you must presume and assume THAT THERE IS MONEY.
To assume therefore that "A NO GOD" is an entity is entirely more than fallacious than ridiculous. For only when you assume in the affirmative that "A NO GOD' is an entity, one is only begging the question on and on until one loses steam and is forced to accept the affirmative: RESOLVE THEREFORE THAT THERE IS A GOD
One cannot start arguing from a nothingness. One must start arguing from anything that already exists. To deny therefore the existence of God is to assume that THERE IS A GOD, and therefore, indeed ONLY A FOOL WILL SAY IN HIS HEART THAT THERE IS NO GOD.
huh?
you're WRONG, jeannette. first of all atheism attempts to describe a lack of belief in a deity, multiple deities, gods, a supreme beings, etc. we don't have words for people who do not believe in unicorns (an-unicornism?), do we? but because most of the world is religious, we have to apply a name to ourselves [who just don't believe]. saying, "i believe there is no god" is a positive atheistic belief. however, saying, "i don't believe in a god" is atheism, although it is not a belief, per se. not believing is not the same as believing there is not something. atheism is not a belief system. by definition, infants, people who have severe mental retardation, and people not aware of a god are all atheists. it's not surprising, though, that irrational, exclusive connotations would come from theists about this.
but going back to the question of the thread. no, an atheist can't be a christian. period. i, for instance, love reality. i want to know what is real. i know god seems to be real to a lot of people. they feel it deep within themselves. to me that isn't enough to just feel it as feelings can be very deceptive. i just don't trust myself. i know how ego-centric i can be.
i don't believe in a god that created the whole universe and is also concerned with this tiny speck we call earth, and the blink in time human beings have been on this planet. i see that as hugely ego-centric. a way of feeling important and special. it is a perfectly understandable need considering how vast time and space are, and how tiny we humans are in the grand scheme of things. understandable, but hardly the basis of understanding the truth.
i don't have as much of a problem with those who view god as the totality of reality. those who just substitute [universe] with [god]. reality rules. it doesn't much matter what we think about it, it rules. in the same way if i step off my roof, i will hit the ground regardless of what i think and believe about it. in that way i see reality as god. it simply rules. nothing spiritual or supernatural needed, just a healthy respect for reality.
the term [god] just carries with it so much baggage that i view as superstitious non-sense. humanity just keeps these myths going because i think it gives people comfort. in that respect i can see the use of religion. like Kierkegaard who basically said that he was christian, not because of any logical arguments or factual evidence, but that he lived a more fulfilling life because of it. i'm ok with that. we all have our illusions we hold dear to us.
i personally believe in unconditional truth and unconditional love. i happen to believe they are the same thing. nothing supernatural or spiritual about that, but it is a way of living my life that works for me. i want to know what is, even if it is totally different than how I think it is today. life seems to work much better when we live in alignment with the truth.
the [god] of many religious people i see as similar to Santa Claus. it is this cosmic being that will grant you happiness and bliss if you are good, and in the case of christianity, will send you to a very bad place indeed if you are bad. to me that seems like such a cop-out for morality. "i didn't shoot you and steal all your money because if i did i know i would go to hell." as opposed to "i didn't shoot you and steal all your money because it is just wrong." it seems to me i'd be much more inclined to trust the second guy, especially considering that all the christian has to do is repent and he is back into heaven again. that builds morality on some slippery sand. the atheists morality is simply based on doing good things is just a better and happier way of living life. it's just the natural consequences of that behavior. no need to add superstition or threats of burning and pitchforks.
i don't believe i have all the answers. i'm open to examining evidence and being proven wrong. in fact, i'm really not all that attached to being right in the first place [surprise, surprise]. best idea wins for me, regardless of who or where it comes from. i don't believe science has all the answers and i do believe there are a great many things we simply don't understand at all. i accept the possibility of energies we can't detect with our instruments and dimensions of reality that i simply can't comprehend. i accept that and i'm open to that. perhaps there is something [spiritual] for lack of a better word out there. i'm just someone who requires evidence and proof before i base my life on it. so far, after 34 years, i believe i've got some basics down about how reality works. it works for me. understanding the ground rules, it is much easier to navigate life. believing fantasy tends to just cause more confusion and tends to self-destruct down the line.
