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If you give an adrian spiro...

Started by xXRebeccaXx, April 28, 2012, 10:11:47 PM

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Sephirah

Okay, different things affect different people differently. Let's not start singling out people for feeling the way they do. No one has the right to say what someone else may or may not feel uncomfortable with.

Simply put a disclaimer in the OP advising viewer discretion due to possibly triggering themes. That will solve the problem.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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Joelene9

  Those are a bit much.  By thoughts in the past were bad enough.  Enough already.
  Joelene
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Tori

Perhaps that disclaimer should be put into every post on this forum.

It is a comic. You laugh or you don't.

Nobody meant any offense. Yet... some have taken offense... just like every single other thread in this forum.

Sorry to contribute to this negative conversation but if you actually read all the OP's posts, you'd understand why she has trouble connecting with the emotional needs of this community. The OP is not like most of us. She has unique and harmless views. Yet she deserves to be here and her posts are indeed valid, even if you disagree with them.

The OP wishes to share this with this community for positive reasons.

Aspergers and/or autism distances a person from societal, and emotional norms. It does not invalidate their contributions to this forum. Please, support her. She is supporting us. Her emotional reasoning may not ring true to you but she is being positively honest which is all any of us can hope to do in a support forum.

Also, I find her link funny. Darkly funny.


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luna nyan

#23
Quote from: Tori on May 01, 2012, 01:59:42 AM
It is a comic. You laugh or you don't.

Nobody meant any offense. Yet... some have taken offense... just like every single other thread in this forum.
As I said before, satire will either amuse or offend.
Quote
Also, I find her link funny. Darkly funny.
As do I.  I have a black sense of humour - too much exposure to Monty Python as a child has left me warped. ^.^;
Drifting down the river of life...
My 4+ years non-transitioning HRT experience
Ask me anything!  I promise you I know absolutely everything about nothing! :D
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kelly_aus

I've found humour, sarcasm and satire to all be very useful in coping with my life, both before and after I started transition.. The comics in question make use of all 3 in varying amounts..

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Jeneva

I'm not sure it is an age thing really.  I think it is more about if someone is in too dark a place for (as Kelly put it [but corrected to US spelling for those who can't read English/Australian English ;) ]) humor, sarcasm and satire to be funny.

I actually felt like she was scathing about the whole cliquishness and subdividing that out community does.  It was also a bit funny because she referenced a blog run by my wife's high school best friend's husband and his brother (the Haiku pages).  I had seen this before from a back link on their page a few months ago.
Blessed Be!

Jeneva Caroline Samples
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A

Well, it wouldn't be logical to say it's based on age, but we have to admit that older women seemed to react more strongly this time.

On topic, I think that if someone is vulnerable enough to be hurt by this, these relatively harmless comics, rather than having a warning on it, should instead serve as a warning themselves. A warning that they have something to work on, or that they need therapy.
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
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peky

I found them so funny so truthful. Here is one more:

http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=933

Like somebody said: "Life is a tragedy for those who feel and comedy for those who think," After seeing the abyss, it was humor that prevented me from droping in.
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Jenny_B_Good

Whether I liked them or not.

    Offence is TAKEN .... It is NEVER given.

Come from a place of power.

Sincere Love and Gratitude,

Jenny

OXOXOXOXOX
-       The longest journey a human must take, is the eighteen inches from their head to their heart    -
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SourCandy

Thank you, ^^ That made me smile. I'm going to assume the topic is going to be shut down, but personally I think the ability to laugh about the silliness of everything in life is crucial in order to be happy. It's a whacky, dark, depressing world where everyone regardless of their gender, sexual preferences, or way of thinking tend to feel alone and scared. I know I did, and still do at times.

Humor is what truly breaks barriers and I wish I could see a comic like this in the newspapers. =P

But Humor is relative, and some people don't like problems being thrown in their face in a satirical way. My two favorite shows are the Daily Show and the Colbert Report, So clearly I don't have that problem.
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Jeneva

Quote from: A on May 01, 2012, 07:05:26 AM
Well, it wouldn't be logical to say it's based on age, but we have to admit that older women seemed to react more strongly this time.
Since someone posted about having to take offense, I want to use the above quote to take a positive feeling and pretend that A meant to say that 39 isn't old ;)
Blessed Be!

Jeneva Caroline Samples
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Ashley Allison

I personally loved these comics... Went through and read every one of them :) I thought they highlighted the MTF and FTM contrast and bond... And the common situations we are faced with through out mutual experience.  I truly believe these are legitimate pieces of literature/art.  Plus, they were really funny :) Also, I found some of this comparable to the print form of the flair of Saturday Night Live humor   
Fly this girl as high as you can
Into the wild blue
Set me free
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peky

perhaps it is a generational divide; I do not know of many old folks that like family guy, south park, etc...It seems also that as a civilization we are getting very intolerant when it come to pains and the costs of living. It is like "I take offense" in that you "took offense." It is like I am entitled to not be offended, ever. As humans the only thing we re entlitled is: to die.

I am all for respecting the feelings of other, and that othesr have the right to express their feelings (hurt or otherwise), but that is vastly different than trying to censor what others can see or discuss.

"Threads" are like radio stations, if you do not like the music they are playing, then by all means reach for the dial
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Miki

The age factor is interesting. 

Personally, I think there is a bit of envy going on towards the younger generation of transfolks.  There are resources, awareness, advances, that simply did not exist even 15-20 years ago. 

I know I get that way sometimes, and think, "Wow, if things were as they are now, when I was 18..."   While I might get envious, I also am really happy for anyone that is addressing this for themselves way earlier than I did.  It is easier for me to celebrate the opportunities and resources available now for others, not resent the fact they weren't around when I could have benefited the most from them.  It's not just about me.  :)

I love the comics, even the "What the hell..." ones.  Comedy has always been a vehicle to cut through political correctness and speak directly to harsh things. 

While a warning is not a bad idea hindsight-wise, the concept of anyone here having to second guess what may or may not be offensive to someone else is ridiculous.  Unless something is an obvious troll, based on the established standards of the site and the rules that govern it, I am not going to run myself around in circles trying to whitewash everything just in case someone gets a bug up their ass about it.

It's the internet.  You are no more obligated or forced to click on a link than you are obligated to eat everything at a buffet just because it is there.

-Miki
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
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Constance

The reason why I admit that age my play a role is that I had a 24-year intentionally committed relationship end as a result of my transition. This was AFTER my partner told me, "Even if you need to transition, I wouldn't leave you." In the end, she did.

There are folks on this forum who are younger than my kids, younger than the marriage that I lost. I don't think that they can comprehend the pain of having a relationship of this length ending because they haven't yet lived long enough to experience one. There is a gulf of experience that separates me from others on this board.

Yes, it is the Internet and I'm free to click or not as I choose. But, that doesn't mean that politeness can be thrown away entirely. For instance, there are things that I find amusing that I don't post here or on my Facebook page so I don't upset others. To me, that's just showing respect for others around me who don't share my point of view.

I don't think that the purpose of this thread was to offend. But I stand by my comment that some of the comics linked in this thread to seem to me to be very close to flaming/bashing people.

Miki

I get what you're saying Connie, but your take as a reader and your take as a moderator are two different things to a lot of people.  Someone posting a link to a specific comic has absolutely no way of knowing how that is going to impact you.  It is one of those unfortunate things that only comes to light after the fact.  I could read the exact same comic that offends you and laugh my ass off.  Both reactions are valid.

Again, excepting intentionally antagonistic posts, asking everyone to try and guess what may or may not offend any one single person in the amazingly diverse and broad spectrum of people here is a bit unrealistic in my opinion.

Not liking something doesn't make it wrong for everyone, just makes it wrong for you.

Sorry some of those comics struck a sensitive chord for you.  That does suck.   Having said that, I cannot imagine anyone posting something here in an intentional effort to remind you of your pain or rub your face in it.

-Miki
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
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peky

Quote from: Connie Anne on May 01, 2012, 11:52:59 AM
The reason why I admit that age my play a role is that I had a 24-year intentionally committed relationship end as a result of my transition. This was AFTER my partner told me, "Even if you need to transition, I wouldn't leave you." In the end, she did.

There are folks on this forum who are younger than my kids, younger than the marriage that I lost. I don't think that they can comprehend the pain of having a relationship of this length ending because they haven't yet lived long enough to experience one. There is a gulf of experience that separates me from others on this board.


Your narrative is no so unique, I was  also abandoned by my more-than-twenty-years wife, eventhough our agreement was that: "we would walk into the sunset as two old ladies." It is hard blow to recover, but just like with other set backs on life, you cry, bitch, scream, get hugs, then you get up back in the horse, the show must go on.

I do not think that "experience" or age makes people more or less empathetic, sympathetic, wise, tolerant, or more understanding of the meaning of losing a love one. It is personal development and an inquiring mind that makes us better as we age, not just the passage of time.

BTW: I am sincerly sorry for your loss
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A

Connie Anne, I think you seem to illustrate perfectly what I meant in my last post in this topic:

The fact that you are so strongly affected by the humourous, relatively harmless comics on the site linked (and not on the very comic that was originally posted, by the way), and the fact that so many others do not even see the beginning of a rules offense might be a sign not of this topic needing to have a warning on it, but of it representing a warning for you in particular. A warning that the pain is still vivid. A warning that you might need help to heal.

I really feel for you, and I understand your reaction. But even if it is understandable, I still think the issue is on your side, rather than the comic's.

If it helps you understand my point, I'll give you an example from my personal life. As a child and teenager, I didn't really have friends, and the few I had did not care about me all that much. But around the age of 12, we got a dog. A blond labrador. She became my friend; my only real close friend; my lover, almost. I would sleep (sleep, don't go thinking of anything dirty) with her whenever possible; comfort her when she was afraid of thunder; spend as much time as I could near her. I told her of all my problems, and ironically, I felt that only she understood me.

Then, about 7 years later, my mother and father-in-law split up. I went with my mother; he kept the dog. I refused to visit her; I missed her so much that I knew I would only be putting the knife back into the wound by doing so. I tried to forget. Then, a few months later, I learned she had died. My father-in-law had stupidly and cruelly murdered gotten euthanasia practiced on her, because her leg hurt (not so much, hey, she could still walk and run 95 % of the time) and he thought it just had to make her life unbearable, and he didn't want to spend on expensive surgery.

Since then, I am unable to see a dog suffer, especially if it's similar to the dog I lost. If there is a report on animal cruelty on TV, I'll be hiding my eyes with my hands and sobbing all the show long, if I can bear it at all. A dog getting kicked probably saddens me more than a child getting killed. Of all movies, the only one I wasn't able to finish was Marley and Me, despite my usual very strong urge to know the end of a story, no matter how scary, no matter how boring. My dog is the only dead person I have actually spoken to whilst crying myself to sleep, all that whilst my loving great-grandmother almost died in front of my eyes and that my favourite uncle died young.

But every time I am devastated by such images, I don't deem them unappropriate, unacceptable or suggest that a warning be put on Marley and Me. I take it as an indication that I have not yet healed; that I am going to need help to get over this.

(Oh, my, I almost cried just writing this.)
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
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pretty

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tgd

Wow, gotta say, I'm kinda surprised by how the comics still generate talk.. found this topic through my trackbacks.

I want to give some of my own input as the creator. Quite a few pieces linked are old, come from when I was early in transition and often have opinions I considered 'truthful' and 'need to be said'. Many of those, I do not stand by anymore (and have recently done a link purge for the more unsavory ones), but you can still find them in the website if you're diligent enough..

As for people taking offense, I think it's warranted. I've found throughout the years that the comic can be polarizing, and while sometimes people take my comics the wrong way, there were also strips where the offense is completely justified. It happens with a topic as sensitive and centered around a person's life as being trans. I don't believe that people being offended simply means they want to take offense. That is a position people of privilege can often take (not implying anything about the posters here) when they do something offensive to dismiss the oppressed and their feelings. If a person is offended, I'd like to listen and understand why, rather than simply dismiss it even if I don't agree.

With that said, the comic was also therapy for me.. a chance to work on my art, as well as work out whatever was on my mind at the time. One could almost say it is a diary of how I've been feeling or working through, hence the comic name. :P Not everyone will agree, some will have more piled onto their plate than others. I have a lot more I could say on the topic of comedy, but for now, I just wanted to try and clear a bit up. I'd like to do more positive strips to counter some of the darker and offensively bad ones (one I eventually got tired of seeing relinked everywhere was the 'Ticked off ->-bleeped-<-s with Knives' one with people agreeing with it.. that was just terribly done), but time is a restraining factor, and it's hard to draw stuff that is uplifting sunshine when it comes to trans stuff for me, personally.  :laugh:

(Also want to say, I hope no one was offended by the comic posted in the OP.. that was a parody of If You Give a Mouse a Cookie)
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