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How to be "more feminine"?

Started by Molly, May 11, 2012, 09:42:38 PM

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Molly

I had my first appointment with a gender therapist yesterday.  Suffice it to say, it went terribly.  Didn't connect with her at all, and as a result could never really open up to her about my thoughts and feelings as of late.  At the end of the session, she basically brushed me off, telling me to come back to her when I was more certain.  In effect, I wasn't trans enough for her yet.

But she gave me homework nonetheless:  "Be more feminine."

Problem is, I am still very much hiding in the closet at large.  Even at home.  So, how do I do that without giving myself away too soon and drawing attention to myself?  Bit of a conundrum, methinks.

But still, besides the walk, beside the posture and the voice... how do I be more feminine?

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~RoadToTrista~

I mean IMO, something is wrong when a therapist is telling you to be more feminine. Were those her exact words?

That aside, you don't connect with her. If she's not cutting it, then one of your options is to find a new one.

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A

I also think that you should change therapists. Her job is to help you come to terms with your gender identity, not to require you to be sure already when you go see her.
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Renee D

Sounds like she wants you to adhere to an outdated idea of what a woman is in order for her to determine that you are trans.  Definitely find someone else if you can.
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Alainaluvsu

I agree. It's her job to help you understand if you are experiencing dysphoria due to your gender. Even if you weren't dysphoric due to gender issues, a trained professional should be able to sort out WHY you are dysphoric and help you. Telling you to come back when you are more sure is a sign of incompetence. Find somebody else, but not just because she wont sign the letter, but because she isn't doing her job as a trained professional.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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Molly

What worried me is that she has been at this for twenty years, and used to run a gender clinic.  She said she was initially brought into the clinic to help family members of transpeople, and not the people themselves.  I knew the second I stepped out of her office that I wouldn't return.

I have a call into another GT in the area.  Hoping to hear back from her on Monday.

But still, she got me thinking... what can I do right now, if anything, to be more feminine (when I am out in public), while still presenting as your standard heterosexual male?
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Tori

If she said that to me, I'd ask her if she'd say that to a bull lesbian.


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mementomori

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A

Uhm, if you like skate-like shoes, the area of gender overlap is quite wide. You could also slightly take care of your eyebrows. It can look more clean without being too "gay", I think, if you do it mildly.

There's also, maybe, slight make-up, such as a little bit of foundation and such.

Hmm, what else? You can probably take care of your body hair without too many looks. There -are- boys who aren't hairy, after all. But if you think people would notice too much, you can bleach it, so that it's less apparent, but when someone asks "what did you do with your legs?" you can say "uh, nothing, the sun maybe?" and they won't doubt you all that much, since the hairs are still there.

You can also grow your hair..?

But really, I'm not 100 % sure I get what you mean by "more feminine whilst still presenting as your standard heterosexual male". It sure sounds contradictory, since more feminine inevitably brings you farther from the standard heterosexual male...
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Keaira

Mannerisms! my last councilor noted that my voice was quite feminine but I had very feminine gestures and mannerisms. I wasn't even aware of my mannerisms being feminine. But don't go super-fake flamboyant gay. If you have to, go to a local shopping mall or park and just people watch. see how women move and gesture when they walk, talk, sit, etc.
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Alainaluvsu

If you are truly female inside, you just have to stop giving a crap what people think. You will have to do that anyways if you wish to transition. Once you learn that it's not about what people think, it's about how you feel about yourself and being whoever makes you happy; if you're feminine inside, you'll be feminine. If you're a girl, it'll shine at that point. When you're yourself and it's female, people will soon accept it. You'll seriously look back at yourself and kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

Do it slowly if you must. But just say something on your mind that you would've stopped yourself from saying in order to keep your man card or whatever. Keep doing it overtime. Eventually you'll be out there buying make up without giving a crap what everyone else thinks.

Release your inhibitions.

Feel the rain on your skin. Noone else can feel it for you, only you can let it in. Noone else can speak the words on your lips. Drench yourself with words unspoken, live your life with arms wide open. Today is when your book begins. The rest is still unwritten :)

Natasha Bedingfield - Unwritten (US Version)

Sorry... I just took my medicine a couple hours ago :D
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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AbraCadabra

Quote from: Molly on May 11, 2012, 11:09:50 PM
What worried me is that she has been at this for twenty years, and used to run a gender clinic.  She said she was initially brought into the clinic to help family members of transpeople, and not the people themselves.  I knew the second I stepped out of her office that I wouldn't return.

I have a call into another GT in the area.  Hoping to hear back from her on Monday.

But still, she got me thinking... what can I do right now, if anything, to be more feminine (when I am out in public), while still presenting as your standard heterosexual male?

I think it may well be a 'counselling ploy'. My therapist shrink psychiatrist did EXACTLY that, and not only to me! It may well be he actually used this, to test our RESOLVE.
He told a tg friend (she is by married now) that he "could only see a man in a dress"... he told me, by making a sort of photographic shutter with his hands, that my hair were wrong, i.e. my face looked not like female, not for him at any rate etc. etc.
In my situation I had no option but to hang in there and just keep on coming back to him.
In the end... he switched about 180 deg. (after about 9 month) and told me I was one of his BEST transitioners!
I think it may well be 'old school' gate-keeping that this person is practicing with you.

In my case I got the idea, if I had run off for the 'big check-out', all he'd comment be: I was "not strong enough" to survive the ordeal of transitioning.
And make NO mistake... is very much just that. Go ask ANY ONE, it's no cake walk.
BTW, go look about you and see HOW MANY folks actually can not go through with it!
Getting stuck along the road and being most unhappy, taking poppers to handle GID, with no better idea after YEARS - what be the next thing to do... other then try sitting on the fence, with no resolve and lost in la-la-land.

As I said... I'm starting to understand that some of this behaviour might be to 'help' rather then to harm.
Just my experience...
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Erin

Well if you have to ask, maybe you are just not the uber feminine type?
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Mich on May 12, 2012, 01:10:46 AM
I think it may well be a 'counselling ploy'. My therapist shrink psychiatrist did EXACTLY that, and not only to me! It may well be the use this, is to test your RESOLVE.
He told this tg friend (she is by married now) that he "could only see a man in a dress"... he told me by making a sort of photographic shutter with his hands that my hair were wrong, i.e. my face looked not like female, not for him at any rate etc. etc.
In my situation I had no option but to hang in there and just keep on coming back to him.
In the end... he switched about 180 deg. (after about 9 month) and told me I was one of his BEST transitioners!
I think it may well be 'old school' gate-keeping that this person is practicing with you.

In my case I got the idea, if I'd run off for the 'big check-out', all he'd comment be I was "not strong enough" to survive the ordeal of transitioning.
And make NO mistake... is very much just that. Go ask ANY ONE, it's no cake walk.
BTW, now look about you and see HOW MANY folks actually can not go through with it!
Getting stuck along the road and being terribly unhappy, taking poppers to handle GID, with no better idea after YEARS what be the next thing to do... other then try sitting on the fence, with no resolve and totally lost in la-la-land.

As I said... I'm starting to understand that some of this behaviour might be to 'help' rather then to harm.
Just my experience...

How ironic.

You know what the hardest part of my transition was? The medical establishment. Trying to hold me back at every turn. And the shrinks were by far the worst of them.

These are OUR lives, not theirs.

Personally, I think the TG community needs to grow some spine and stop letting the medical establishment tell us that because they have a piece of paper they know our minds better than we do.

Stop being sheep, stop letting yourselves be herded about like cattle.

As for the original post. I encountered something similar some time back, I ignored her and never went back and went to another shrink.

You think mannerisms really matter in passing? You think the average 23 year old woman will be read as male because of mannerisms?

I am a person, I'm also female, I'm also independent and say what I believe in, dress how I want (modestly and relatively boyish, I don't like attention, cargo pants are my style, I like lots of pockets), and any mannerisms I have are just whatever my natural mannerisms are.

So why does it seem I get read as female? Probably because I physically look and sound female.

That's all it takes really. Your behavior, personality, these things aren't stuff that will cause you to be read any differently really. Why would they? They don't for ciswomen.

Get a new therapist. Any therapist who thinks they're helping you by making you act like a stereotype or manipulate you to see if you're tough enough, is one who shouldn't be getting paid.
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Molly

Here's what I have been working on so far:

I have my ears pierced, and as it is, my hair is already long.  Very long, and curly.  If straightened it would hang all the way to the top of my pants.  (It's pretty awesome.)   I am thinking about getting it cut in a more feminine way than it is now (I basically just get it trimmed straight across).  I've also recently begun shaving my legs.  The feeling is incredible! 

I might try the subtle makeup.  (I love makeup!)  I have tried wearing it out in the past, but only a handful of times, because I was always afraid it would be noticed.  Buying is not a huge issue, though.  I mean, I am nervous as hell while doing it, and am constantly afraid someone will say something, but I frequently buy makeup by myself.  (Not that I need any more!)

A couple weeks ago I decided I was going to stop giving any ->-bleeped-<-s about anything.  Of course, that's far easier said than done.  Not giving a crap about what people think is something I have a really difficult time doing, especially after constantly keeping myself in check for so long.  I have been actively trying to act more feminine since then, but it's all too easy to slip back into old patterns when my mind wanders. 

I have been consciously attempting to feminize my walk/stance lately, even while out in public.  Just paying attention to the sway of my hips—gosh, I love the feeling.  I feel so much freer when I let my body move as it wants to, instead of forcing into a masculine box.

Mannerisms, on the other hand... I don't even really know where to begin on that front. I'm trying to figure out how to be graceful, though I'd like to think I am already.  I did gymnastics for 9 years, so I do have this weird ingrained sense of control, of where all my limbs are at once.  I feel like I can really use this to my advantage, if I couple it with not caring how people see me.

I guess it just really threw me when she said that.  I was pretty tense throughout the entire session, so suppose I never felt comfortable enough to just let myself go and let the girl in me come out.

Gosh, I have so much to learn.  First thing on the list:  seriously stop giving a ->-bleeped-<- about people's opinions.  Seriously.

Quote from: A on May 11, 2012, 11:30:02 PMBut really, I'm not 100 % sure I get what you mean by "more feminine whilst still presenting as your standard heterosexual male". It sure sounds contradictory, since more feminine inevitably brings you farther from the standard heterosexual male...

What I meant was, are there subtle ways I can act more feminine, ways that the typical person might not even notice if they aren't coupled with other mannerisms/attributes?  As much as I am trying with certain aspects, I am also very much keeping myself reigned in right now, especially around certain family members and when I'm at work.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 12, 2012, 12:30:01 AMRelease your inhibitions.

Feel the rain on your skin. Noone else can feel it for you, only you can let it in. Noone else can speak the words on your lips. Drench yourself with words unspoken, live your life with arms wide open. Today is when your book begins. The rest is still unwritten :)

Love this!  Of the hundreds of times I have heard this song on the radio, I never let the lyrics really sink in.  Now, listening to it in a new light, it speaks to me.
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lilacwoman

Molly, ask yourself if you have ever had folk stare at you and exclaim: 'you're just like a girl/woman!'

If you have then you have  natural femaleness and now just need to add some femininity with dress/makeup/hair.

If you haven't then be honest and ask yourself if you are really TS or just somewhere else on the gender scale and recognise that girls and women do have a lifetime of spotting femaleness and even if you went to a CD/TV dressing service and spent a fortune on being turned into a woman the end result may be a rough parody of a woman same as on telly last night where a cop glanced up at a draq queen and muttered. 'Quite a guy'.

There is a definite difference between femaleness and femininity.

On the other hand the therapist may have been a **** ******* and was trying to prevent you becoming one of those goddam transsexuals who invade ******* spaces.
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Dahlia

Quote from: Molly on May 11, 2012, 11:09:50 PM
What worried me is that she has been at this for twenty years, and used to run a gender clinic.  She said she was initially brought into the clinic to help family members of transpeople, and not the people themselves.  I knew the second I stepped out of her office that I wouldn't return.

That's very odd. She should know that the average pre everything MTF is a (hyper)masculine male and inborn feminity is very, very rare in MTF's.
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kelly_aus

I've been thinking about the OP's question for a while now, and I still don't have any answers.. Actually, apart from finding a therapist you do connect with, all I can suggest is to simply be yourself - not the you that you present to the world currently..


Quote from: Dahlia on May 12, 2012, 07:19:24 AM
That's very odd. She should know that the average pre everything MTF is a (hyper)masculine male and inborn feminity is very, very rare in MTF's.

Hmm, that's not my experience at all, either for myself, or many of the trans women I know..
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A

Oh, I had misunderstood. Looks like you're quite intent on transitioning already. In that case, uhm... Well, uhm... If you're confident enough, try going out 100 % female sometime. I haven't done that yet, but it's supposed to give you a big confidence boost.

Also, working on your voice could be good. My voice is supposedly really feminine, and I never use any but it, but I still "pass" as a weird male for now (except security checks on the phone, but that's another story). There are men with feminine voices, you know. A co-worker of my mother's had that, as well as an androgynous name, and he ended up changing his name to a really male one to make sure he wasn't called madam on the phone, hehe. And no one questions his masculinity.

Also, think of the phenomenon called "metrosexuals", men who take care of their bodies much like women do. Apart from "hurr hairy truck driver alpha male" men, no one calls them any less male for epilating and using moisturisers and foundation and stuff.

You can also start facial hair removal. If you need to, you can use an excuse. "I get too many ingrowns; it's a real issue." "I'm really tired of having to shave every damned morning, and heck, I don't intend on growing a beard, so why not?" "My skin is just too sensitive; all razors just destroy it." There are "real" men who get their beard lasered, after all.

And you can buy a few women's androgynous-looking pieces of clothes, again with an excuse if you need it. For the clerk, you can be buying it for your twin sister, who pretty much has the same sizes as you, so you're trying them on to make sure it fits. Or you could complain about how much you have a girl's butt and always have to buy damned girl's jeans because nothing fits you, even if it's not really true. Or you can say that your feet are too short for men's socks. Or you could be doing a short film for an important school project, and need a realistic cross-gender outfit, and complain about how they picked you to be the pretty girl 'cause of your long hair. Excuses are useful when you lack confidence.

But in the end, you will have to come out. I personally don't believe so much in not caring about what others think. Of course, I'm all for being yourself and not conforming too much, but unless you want to create difficulties for yourself, you sort of have to "help them accept you" a little. So going gradually and not "BANG; today, I'm myself! Screw you all and your opinions!" which is likely to cause shock for everyone including you, and might actually appear as mental instability, is probably a better choice.

For example, slowly feminise your appearance and behaviours whilst letting others accept that you're a weird, effeminate person. If, after a while and they seem to have accepted you (and most should, really), if you come out to them, it'll feel like less of a "You lied to us!" or "What the heck? ->-bleeped-<-!" and more of a "Oh, THAT's what was up! So he, uhm, she, can be herself now!" It's not magical, but I think it should really attenuate the shock of coming out for both you and your peers.

And as soon as you're sure that you're transsexual and are going to transition, if you aren't already, you will need to come out to your family. They deserve to know, right? They're close to you, after all. And if you wait too much, they might feel betrayed. Even if they're religious fanatics with torches, you don't depend on them for living, right? You have a job, after all.

But in a more normal case, if you sort of use the same method with them, and do the coming out with tact and understanding, and explain everything to them to the best of your ability, and don't confront them, but rather accompany them into understanding you, it should go fine. They might not understand fully at first, but they should accept, at the very least, and try to understand their best. I think they might actually see it as a little relieving to finally understand "what's wrong with you". Because don't underestimate family. They probably noticed something. My mother and sister, at least, already "knew".

And all that will be much easier to do if you have a therapist who accompanies you instead of challenging you. Plus, if you're still not 100 % sure, they're (theoretically; not sure what happened with the first one) good at helping you figure everything out. I hope your new therapist is nice.
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peky

Alainaluvsu put it so poetically in her video !!!

You have to release your inner female !!!! In most of us, the inner female, has been suppressed and imprisoned, or is dormant and undiscovered. Once release and allowed to project, the feminine mannerisms, and even voice inflexion and resonance, would come naturally (with a little bit of practice, but your attitude (mental state=I am a female) is the key.
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