I think we do really worry too much about passing etc

[Cindy]

I know it is very normal for TG of all persuasions to worry about 'passing' and there are many levels to this. It is also important in many environments, do we pass in public, in a shop, at work, at where ever.

As many of you know I went 'public' in the last to weeks to living as me dressed in female attire. I still wear a wig socially and sometimes for shopping but I decided I would seek a feminine hair style for work and I'm working on it. Still not very feminine at the moment. So people at work see me as me wearing female clothing, full time.

The same clothes as other woman my age are wearing at work.

I had a senior management meeting today. I was in make up (subtle) nail polish a very cute sweater, slacks and boots and carrying my handbag. No one questioned me about it, although several people in the meeting already knew about me, it was work as usual. On the way out , I was walking with a couple of male colleagues as we were going to catch a taxi to another venue.

We passed a guy who I have had a professional relationship with for 35 years. He was also my Ph.D supervisor. We know each other well, professionally and socially. He has never met Cindy until this occasion.

He held the door open as the three of us walked through, he is well known, and we all said  Hi, and he responded, Hi Tom, Hi Joe. and Hi Julie. He didn't recognise me. Even though I had my 'male' face and hair. DHAF who Julie is

So we were waiting for a taxi, one of my ex-research assistants walked past, I had employed her for 10 years. We again are friends.

(We in fact met a month or so back, when I was waiting for someone, and she walked over to me and said Hi and we had a chat, so she recognised me  a month or so ago, when I was wearing male clothing.)

So I said Hi V how are you going? She glanced at me, obviously didn't recognise me, and said in a friendly tone, 'Fine thanks Sis take care' and kept walking, she hadn't recognised me.

What has changed?

My face and hair hasn't changed that much.

Yes, I present female and dress female in everyday female clothing.

But maybe I'm presenting as female? People get cues from how we act.

I strongly think people are programmed to look for normality, and accept it; if you present or act as 'abnormal' whatever that may mean, then people will recognise and identify you as such.

Obviously entertainers know this and use it in their profession.

We need to do the opposite, we blend in by being the normal person.

'Normal' people are confident with who they are. But that can be easily broken.

Any stage act can take a normal person from the audience and they no longer act normal. Why? As soon as they are on the stage 'in public' they lose their confidence.

Does this sound familiar.

We walk out of our door, and suddenly, we are in public. So is every other male and female being; but for some reason we tense up and instantly we are 'open'.

And guess what? We no longer 'pass'

By being confident and taking the small steps you get more confidence, and can take bigger steps, until finally. You can reach the stage of IDGAS ( I don't give a s**t) and your are accepted as being 'normal'.

So I posted this to let people know that you can move forward, you can do it.

Just be you.

Hugs

Cindy

[nicole99]

That's awesome Cindy,

I've been waiting for you to come out full time. Sounds like you are having a really good experience.

I have to agree with you regarding passing. Act like you belong and more often than not nobody questions. When you relax you start to move more naturally, you make appropriate eye contact, you don't signal to everyone around you that they should take note of you. It's like you demand recognition simply by being.

I think humans have very fine unconscious mechanisms for detecting stress in others. It could be a trait designed to warn as of danger - like being aware of your parents moods when you are a kid. It could be a mechanism to help us detect deception. If you start acting stressed, or as if you are trying to hide something people quickly home in on this.

Passing is a strange thing, and passing can mean different things to different people. You may not pass 100%, but even if you don't people often just run with it if you act like you belong.

I still think to 'pass' you need to collect a certain number of social 'points', and I suspect everyone's threshold is different. If you act like a woman, talk like a woman (not necessarily sound like one), dress like a woman of your age, most people are going to treat you as a woman even if they ping you as being trans. For me that is 'passing', being socially functional in your gender role.

[annette]

This is exactly what I said long time ago on this board Cindy.
When you feel yourself just like a normal female, you will act like that and nobody will think otherways.
The most important thing is...be yourself.
If people like you for who you are, nobody will notice that one have a remarkable past.
If one identify as female, just act like the woman you have always been and everything will just be fine.

When one is desperately trying to fit in, it will go wrong, eyebrows will be moving up by society.
Acting that one is somebody is quite a different with just being somebody.
Thanks for sharing Cindy, I think you will help a lot of people with your post.

Hugs
Annette

[Inkwe Mupkins]

I agree with this 100%. Before I came out officially trans I still presented myself as male but I didn't care if I passed as male and I passed 100% of the time just by shaving my hair and changing my wardrobe. That was almost 10 years ago. Now I still pass of course but I'm more worried about it now.

[peky]

Right on the money Cindy! Your post made nod my head, and also lough  because similar thing had happen to me.

I am hoping folks that are contemplating going 24/7 would read and head the advice you give. Specifically -and to paraphrase you- you have to reach the IDGAS to be happy and successful.

I started 24/7 two years ago when my ex went around and outed me through the whole "kingdom." At that time I was pre everything, so out of been utterly despondent and not having anything to loose, I went 24/7, and after a few months of dressing fem and sporting a longer hair, I started to be recognized as a female. So, like many of us, I realized that you have to do two thing in order to be accepted as your self: a) reach IDGAS, and b) release the inner female.

[Jeneva]

I agree that we have way too much "demand" inside the community that we must do X, Y, or Z to pass.  Once we learn to let our true self out with NO reservations (IDGAS) then people react to it (this is Peky's two points just rephrased a bit).

At first it can be hard.  PreFFS/BA I had many days where I was too paranoid and anxious and therefore didn't pass, but by the same token I had dozens of times I was out and about and passed just fine.  As my anxiety medication kicked in, I found myself passing more and more.  And now after FFS and BA I have the confidence to live with IDGAS and pass all the time, I even mentioned this a while back on an FFS worth it thread that got bumped yesterday.

This core idea is what makes some of the ->-bleeped-<-r-than-thou threads so funny.  The posters that are saying you aren't really "trans" like I am are actually right.  Because they have gone so stereotypical, they are seen as trans more than us because we're being authentic and just get accepted as women.  A good example is that my area has a handful of drag performers that identify as trans.  They don't tone their makeup down to normal levels for day to day wear (not stage levels, but still more than the average woman), so yes they are always treated as a woman, but they are read because it is just over the top.  I actually surprised several people at a local PFLAG meeting when I told a parent of a transman that I was trans also because I wanted to offer some support to him.  There was a group of 5 of us talking and none immediately believed me, because I didn't look like the other transwoman that was at the picnic in her heavy makeup.  Up until that point we had been seen as just another lesbian couple.

Being trans isn't about "fooling" everyone by using all the tricks to LOOK like a female, it is about letting your true self shine outward and BE a female.  Once you feel comfortable to let it out, then others can feel it when they interact with you.

[Constance]

As others have posted, you're spot-on with this one.

But, I must ask because neither Google or urbandictionary.com seemed to have the answer, what does DHAF stand for?

[Jeneva]

But, I must ask because neither Google or urbandictionary.com seemed to have the answer, what does DHAF stand for?

Add a C and re-search it again.  Didn't have a f___ing clue.

[Constance]

Ah, I thought it might have been something along those lines. Thanks, Jeneva.

[Sephirah]

I tend to look at this in a slightly different way, to be honest.

I think maybe sometimes there is a paradoxical and contradictory nature within some people which manifests in how they see others, rather than themselves. It's kind of hard to explain, but I'll try anyway.

In coming to terms with, and dealing with the nature of being transgendered, we delve deeply into ourselves and what makes us who we are. We gain insight into ourselves in order to pin down what it is which makes us different, and why we can't function in the role our biology suggests we should. I think when it comes to living life, this acts as a double edged sword in some cases. We apply our own standards to those around us, and assume that they're as hyper-aware and constantly monitoring everything as we are. When it comes to 'other people' seeing someone different from themselves... well, a contradiction arises between what we think (namely "we express ourselves in our own way and that doesn't make it any less real") and what we think others think ("well they're not like me, or people I know, so that makes them fake"). I don't know, I guess this leads to all kinds of "what are they thinking?" moments, and assuming the worst, when rather than someone you walk by on the street being too polite to say anything, they may just not care. And really, why should they?

How many people here would say they're the same as how they believe 'society' is? How many people go about their daily lives internally trying to deconstruct everyone they see and gauge their gender, their motivations, every little action taken by total strangers they meet in the street and equating that to a benchmark which must be met before we're satisfied they are who they are?

I know I don't. About the most I think to myself is stuff like "I must be getting old, those trousers are nearly falling down, why doesn't that person pull them up? They're gonna fall over." Makes no difference to me if they happen to be on a man, a woman, someone totally androgynous in appearance - I just don't think in terms of gender. If I see a woman with somewhat masculine features walking down the street, my first thought isn't automatically "I wonder if that's actually a guy." It just isn't. And I can't really believe I'm alone in thinking like that. I really don't like the word too much but whether someone 'passes' or not isn't really an issue as far as I'm concerned, I just see someone getting on with their lives... and reminding me that I really should be getting on with mine.

It's contradictory to me to believe personally that people will, and should be able to just be themselves... yet believe that no one else in a sort of homogenised 'cloud of society' thinks that too.

Maybe sometimes we project how we think we're going to be seen onto other people, based on how we see ourselves, and mistake that for how we are seen by others instead. Maybe it's as simple as the freedom which comes from not giving a damn yourself leading to a lessening of the stranglehold of believing other people do give one.

[Nygeel]

I guess it's different for me. I usually am in the mindset where I'm not thinking about how I look or act, but in the back of my mind think "I hope I'm seen as male." Sure, it would be awesome to be in a place where I'm fine with being misgendered all the time, but for me, and for many others it's a safety issue, and a mental health issue. When I get repeatedly misgendered (which unfortunately happens a lot) I start to feel not so awesome, especially when it's maybe 5-10 times in a day. I'll start off thinking "I look awesome" then get it over and over and start to question myself.

[King Malachite]

Sure, it would be awesome to be in a place where I'm fine with being misgendered all the time, but for me, and for many others it's a safety issue

I agree with this.  Even though I am pre-transition I am concerned that not passing in the future could jeopardize my safety even if I'm just being "normal" with my movements.  I hear stories of people just out of nowhere grabbing people's crotches to see if they have anything down there or not because they just couldn't tell.  I have even heard of a boss doing that to a worker.  Since I don't see myself packing if the wrong person decides to do that to me and discovers nothing then that may not end up too good.  Of course that's not a reason to stay inside the house forever but I do want to be prepared for the possibilities. 

[Ariel]

Congrats to you, Cindy!

I think that how much you should be concerned with passing depends on your surroundings and community... if you're among people who are going to accept people as they are, you're probably fine. I know that I, like Sephirah, just don't think too much about what sex/gender someone "actually" is, but I have different internal notions of gender than other people do anyhow.

At the same time, like Malachite and Nygeel point out, in some cases it is, sadly, a safety issue. Some people care--a lot. Why? I have no idea why. I have no idea why people feel so much like they have to police others' feelings and actions. I'm talking about bigots here--the type that would actually grab someone's crotch. I'm not the most socially aware of people but to me that just seems like a huge breach. Why would you do that? I don't know. But people do, and one has to be aware of that.

[Cindy]

My dear friends,

None of my post was meant to suggest in anyway not protecting yourself.

In fact the opposite. Accepting yourself is also accepting the danger you are in.

I can assure you I will not be walking in to a bar and saying 'Hi Sailors'. I wont walk into a bar.

Accepting your self is totally personal.

It is not to be confused with outing yourself or pushing yourself forward in any way.

To me it is about IDGAS, a crude term but think it through.

How many cis guys worry about being male? How many cis-females worry about being female.

None.

They may worry about image; but not gender.

They identify, so that is what we need to get too.

I'll stop. I was musing as I tend to do. Annette has written some nice posts about this as well.

My premise was to start people thinking about what acceptance is, rather than worry about being not accepted.

Cindy

[Nygeel]

Cindy, I personally don't worry about being male (but I think it's bad to assume all cis people don't have to worry about gender). I do worry about my image, which I feel is related to my gender. I haven't been able to find much acceptance. I've been looking for a job for a long time now, and in some ways being seen as male is very important with that.

[Ariel]

Aha, I see what you mean, Cindy. That's a good conversation to have I think. What does acceptance look like?

I think part of what you're saying is that it starts inside of us first--when we get to IDGAS. Yeah?

[Hell_Girl]

This is totally a semantics thing, but I hate the term passing, it denotes having to pass a test, do x, y and z and you make the grade and are percieved as your true gender. It also has a nasty little subtext of trying to pass yourself off as something you're not...and before anyone goes to kick me in the see you next tuesday, that's my perception based on my observations.

In reality, how people percieve you is as much to do with your perception of yourself, little unconcious clues that you project will either reinforce or reduce their perception of you. If you walk like a duck, talk like a duck and think like a duck...then most people will simply assume you are a duck. However, if you walk like a duck, talk like a duck but think like a dog, people will pick up on the dischord and start making assumptions.

H

[Eva Marie]

I think Cindy's advice is right on the mark.

I'm bigender and went out recently for the first time in girl mode. My girl gender has a totally different personality that my boy gender does; she's full of DGAS and confidence. I don't know where that attitude comes from; my boy gender sure doesn't have it.

So, on that time out (which was the first time, with two bigender friends along for confidence) she OWNED her presence - there was nothing she was afraid of. And you know what? I didn't see anyone visibly clocking me that night, and I was checking for that.

One other time girl mode went out in daytime and the confidence level wasn't high at all - this was her first solo flight and i was feeling somewhere in the middle of my two genders. As a result i'm pretty sure that some people clocked me - I was nervous and unsure and i'm quite sure it showed.

Attitude is very, very important.