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Genderqueer? Gender-all-over-the-place??

Started by PedalHound, June 20, 2012, 10:08:09 PM

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PedalHound

Hey lovelies,
It's so interesting and good to be reading through this board.  I haven't found a decent board for we, the ambiguous ones. 

In the last year I have really come to realize how distanced from one concrete gender idea I feel.  I've done a good bit of reading of Kate Bournstein's work and had new conversations with my trans friends than I'd had before where gender identity was concerned (the nuances, rather than the more binary concepts that came up in relation to being trans*).
Here's where I've come to, at least right now, on my continuing journey of figuring out my relationship with gender:

-I'm born female and still use female pronouns, although there's a pep in my step when I get the occasional "sir" tossed my way or when my fantastic FTM partner refers to me as a "funny boy" or "the king of (whatever it is)".  Mixing in of male pronouns feels just fine to me!

- I'm a mama and though I had to navigate some tough terrain at first while I figured out how to reconcile doing such a female thing as growing and birthing two babies, I have come to a lovely place where that no longer feels like an obstacle to my being able to identify as something other than female.

-I primarily dress in masculine or neutral clothes and I felt a surge of deep emotional satisfaction when I finally bought myself a "man's" wallet and turned my underwear over to the boxer-brief side of the spectrum.

-I must get a breast reduction of my generous chest so that I can bind to breastlessness when I want to, because I don't like knowing that the world sees me as having breasts (and I hate it when people notice/comment on them).  I realize, though, that I really like having them in the context of my relationship and sexuality. They're pretty and soft and they feel good and I'd like to keep one set of boobs in the house (because my partner sure as hell doesn't want to keep his! ;) )

-I am realizing that I feel like some of my relationship with the feminine is more like enjoying drag.  It doesn't feel like being a girl, but more like I'm gender->-bleeped-<-ing when I play with the femme.  I'm very theatrical, I'll take any excuse to wear false eyelashes, glitter and fishnets (despite wearing very "masculine" clothes in my day-to-day).  I loooove show tunes and musical theater generally but I love the cheese and drag feel of the women's roles.  And I have many trappings of a fairly butch dyke too. 

I don't have a particular question to ask or conversation to start with this, but it feels so good to spell some of this out and to feel like anyone who chooses to read it may actually GET some of it and not think I'm a confused in-between of a flamboyant-butch lesbian to gay/bi trans guy.  I'm just happy, learning-more-all-the-time, genderplayful and would prefer NOT to be assigned a label, ME :D

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aleon515

Hi, welcome to the decent board.  8)

For me it has just happened within the last few months (well really I have been me all my life, but finally figured this out). It has taken awhile. I'm FAAB as well (female assigned at birth). I've started presenting as more male. I thought this would not matter too much but it has actually been a big deal for me. Funny you should mention the wallet. I'm going to do this. It's funny how little I know about this. (like where do you get a keychain fob and so on). I haven't really changed all the way to male underwear but I do pack at home sometimes and use them for that.

I have mild-moderate dysphoria. I have done binding-- not sure I like it, but like being reasonably flat thru layering. I think I would not do top surgery as I might really be unhappy with it. But if there were a way to make me an A cup (from a C), I would do. (I don't think someone would do this.) Maybe, though  I'm a wuss. :)

I also like musical theatre but don't think I am like any characters. Yes it could be the drag element. I like the kind of wacky characters. My last bastion of female expression is in bed. Ok so not so much, but I have cute pjs with rubber duckies and that sort of thing. At home, I hang around sloppy and androgynously.

So yeah, see myself a lot in this, in other ways--not so much but that's of course to be expected.

--Jay Jay
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suzifrommd

Welcome pedalhound!

Though I'm male-bodied, you say a lot that relates to my own experience.

Quote from: PedalHound on June 20, 2012, 10:08:09 PM
Hey lovelies,
It's so interesting and good to be reading through this board.  I haven't found a decent board for we, the ambiguous ones. 


Susan's is amazing. People in the Androgyne boards are amazingly welcoming and the discussions are intelligent.

Quote from: PedalHound on June 20, 2012, 10:08:09 PM

-I'm born female and still use female pronouns, although there's a pep in my step when I get the occasional "sir" tossed my way or when my fantastic FTM partner refers to me as a "funny boy" or "the king of (whatever it is)".  Mixing in of male pronouns feels just fine to me!


I relate. When someone mistakes me for female (online only. I've lost too much hair ever to look female in person) I take it as a compliment.

Quote from: PedalHound on June 20, 2012, 10:08:09 PM

- I'm a mama and though I had to navigate some tough terrain at first while I figured out how to reconcile doing such a female thing as growing and birthing two babies, I have come to a lovely place where that no longer feels like an obstacle to my being able to identify as something other than female.

Yeah, opposite for me again. I'm not entirely comfortable being a father. I feel like I'm playing a  role, but it's a role I understand and I'm good at. It's interesting how, when dealing with my daughter, I can relate to her as a female as well, which makes my wife a bit uncomfortable, like I'm stepping into her private area.


Quote from: PedalHound on June 20, 2012, 10:08:09 PM
it feels so good to spell some of this out and to feel like anyone who chooses to read it may actually GET some of it and not think I'm a confused in-between

Oh, we get it. Welcome to Susan's and keep posting.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Edge

Hi. :) I'm faab and a mom too. My son calls me mama, daddy, or tractor (I don't know why tractor). I don't see parenting as particularly gendered and I think the fact that I gave birth without an epidural is badass. I see pregnancy and birth as a biological function more than anything else. I don't know... At first, it was little difficult to think of myself as a guy when I was consistently aware that my body is typically female, but now I just see it as having an atypical body for a guy. I still struggle with being a guy since I'm also a girl sometimes, but I think I'm getting used to that.
I've also thought of getting a breast reduction. My reasons though are that it seems to be the middle ground for my genders. I (guy) can bind better and (girl) still has boobs. I (guy) would rather not have them at all though.
The one time someone called me a guy in RL, I got really happy as well. Unfortunately, that has only happened once.
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PedalHound

Edge, yeah to natural childbirth being badass ;)  My challenges with having done such a female thing as giving birth was tangled up in the early stages of me figuring out my own complex gender puzzle (which is a task that is far from over, I suspect!).  I think there was a swing way into the masculine & dysphoric before I could start to look at what was truly ME and what I felt I *should* be to fit in to one of the scripts we have around us (female? male? FTM?).  It's really nice not to have "stuff" around having had my babies.  I didn't want to lose my meaningful connection to those experiences!!  I think kids come up with adorable names for parents.  My partner (FTM) has been given the parent name "puppy" by our munchkins.  Our 5 y/o explained that it's because my partner is sweet and cuddly and loving like a puppy :D  I love that tractor is one of the name options you receive!

agfrommd, do you have a dialogue with your wife about your gender?  Just curious :)

aleon515, getting my wallet was huge.  I realized how stiffled I felt by my "girl" wallet and having a bag of some kind... it was also a big thing when I stopped buying women's pants.  Guy's pants have real pockets!! It's GREAT! lol   I get the pj thing.  My big project is to continue to seek out what feels like what I want to do/wear/experience and stop trying to peg everything to a notion of gender.  It's exhausting to constantly think about this stuff!!!  I do in and out of periods where it takes up a lot of my thought and attention, and then I manage to just leave it alone for a while.  I know that's also tied in to where my partner is at with his transition and whether we're in a big stage of active change or things are holding for a while. 

I shake my head sometimes when I think about cis-het folks who go about life without even the notion that gender is up for debate or exploration.  Obviously not all cis-het folks are oblivious to that, and there are cis-queer folks who also don't consider it, but the fact that it's not even a concept to some... wow! 
Thanks for the welcome, lovely humans!  8)
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suzifrommd

Quote from: PedalHound on June 21, 2012, 12:02:15 PM

agfrommd, do you have a dialogue with your wife about your gender?  Just curious :)


Yeah we have, though I don't think she completely gets it. She's been very supportive about what I want to do (support group, socialize more the way I identify, visit online sites, etc.) but I think she also wishes it would just go away. There was an entire thread devoted to this, (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,121618.0.html, if you're curious) where the consensus was that it partly had to do with her own issues.

Quote from: PedalHound on June 21, 2012, 12:02:15 PM
I realized how stiffled I felt by my "girl" wallet and having a bag of some kind... it was also a big thing when I stopped buying women's pants.  Guy's pants have real pockets!! It's GREAT! lol 

Pockets are pretty cool. But once I got reading glasses, I had to start carrying some kind of bag around. I'm way to chicken-hearted to do with a lady's handbag, so I've got this black converse tote that follows me everywhere. The good news is that it's big enough to fit just about anything into.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Edge

Quote from: PedalHound on June 21, 2012, 12:02:15 PM
Guy's pants have real pockets!! It's GREAT!
I know right? I hate how girls' pants usually either have no pockets or teeny tiny pockets. I love skirts, but the fact that they usually don't have pockets bugs me too.
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aleon515

I have actually found girl's pants with big pockets. I won't even look at the no pocket models.
But you're right the guy's pants have bigger pockets. I got some REI cargo pants. Wow.

The thing that's my biggest pet peeve is girl's shirts with bust darts. EW!


Oh reading glasses... almost forgot about them. I have got one set of foldable ones.


--Jay Jay
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Julian

Quote from: aleon515 on June 20, 2012, 11:56:18 PM
I have mild-moderate dysphoria. I have done binding-- not sure I like it, but like being reasonably flat thru layering. I think I would not do top surgery as I might really be unhappy with it. But if there were a way to make me an A cup (from a C), I would do. (I don't think someone would do this.) Maybe, though  I'm a wuss. :)

I'm sure there are surgeons out there who would do that for you. A lot of surgeons who specialize in top surgery also perform breast reductions; for my top surgery the incisions and technique were even very similar to a standard breast reduction. It's not too much of a stretch to imagine someone using the same technique to make you very small instead of flat. I considered asking for that myself at one point, but I didn't want to have to go through the same surgery twice if I wasn't satisfied with small breasts.
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