The gender tug-of-war. How widespread is it?

[suzifrommd]

At times I feel very female, and have this acute need to present female and express my female side. I want to transition yesterday, regardless of the consequences.

At other times, I feel very male, can't imagine why I'd ever want to do something that could ruin my career, my marriage, and my esteem in the eyes of most of the people I know. The idea seems certifiably crazy.

I've considered myself mix-gendered, and my posts are usually found in the androgyne section of Susan's. I've heard other people there talk of similar feelings. But I wonder if this tug-of-war is more universally felt.

MtF's and FtM's, did you go through a phase where you found yourself emotionally seesawing like this?

[Nero]

MtF's and FtM's, did you go through a phase where you found yourself emotionally seesawing like this?

Not so much. But I've seen more than a few androgynes here end up going for a full transition to female. Seems like it's part of the process for some. There are also those who started transition and realized their identity was androgyne. And some binary transsexuals who took several years to figure out if transition was right for them.
You don't have to have all the answers now.

[Sephirah]

At times I feel very female, and have this acute need to present female and express my female side. I want to transition yesterday, regardless of the consequences.

At other times, I feel very male, can't imagine why I'd ever want to do something that could ruin my career, my marriage, and my esteem in the eyes of most of the people I know. The idea seems certifiably crazy.

I have a question if I may, because something struck me as interesting when reading the way you worded this.

It seems as though when you feel male, you put it in terms of not wanting to express your female side, or present as female, rather than a desire to express your male side or present as male. The question I have is: do you think there could be a possibility that you're identifying feeling male as... hmm... an absence of feeling female? Rather like identifying darkness as an absence of light, or cold as an absence of heat?

The reason I ask is that, to me at least, not feeling female isn't the same thing as feeling male. There are often times where I don't feel particularly girly, or feminine, but there's always the deep underlying knowledge that I am female. Sometimes I don't particularly feel anything related to gender at all. But I don't think you always have to feel like something in order to be it.

I'm probably reading too much into it. I tend to do that sometimes. But I just thought it was interesting is all.

[Edge]

Well, you know my feelings: almost identical.

[Marcia]

agfrommd

     I also do feel this way. When feeling female I would like transition yesterday and get mad at myself for not doing anything when I have felt this way in the past. But then there will be a day when I will feel 100% and I really don't want to have anything to do with being a female. When feeling this way I also wonder if feeling female was just a dream and not real. It feels like it was just my imagination that made me feel like a female. Than there are times that I think like what Sephiah is asking is it just me not feeling female.

agfrommd I have read some of your other posts and I do see alot you me.

[Joelene9]

  All the *BLEEEEEEPING* time, decades of that!  A lot of lost sleep and low self esteem.  It all stopped with the HRT.  I feel more female, but not as strong as the vacillation peaks from before. 
  Joelene

[suzifrommd]

The question I have is: do you think there could be a possibility that you're identifying feeling male as... hmm... an absence of feeling female?

It's taken me decades to be able to "feel male" at all. Growing up, I never felt male, never felt any gender at all. Even now, I feel like I'm playing a role, but like a hollywood actor, I'm "in character" so I take on the male persona. I've been doing it for so long, that it's become a part of me.

That being said, I don't especially *like* feeling male, while I like feeling female a lot better.

I am definitely missing the "deep underlying knowledge that I am female." I've never felt that, even for a moment. I often have female feelings and I want the world to see me as a female so I feel comfortable expressing those feelings and so they'll be accepted and validated.

But I've spoken to a few MtF's lately who've said the same thing - that they never "felt female", just had the feeling that living life as a female was something they needed to do.

[~RoadToTrista~]

Sort of. I do swing back and forth but I never actually "want" to be male, I just get pessimistic about transitioning. It happens less frequently now, in fact I feel great atm. ^.^

[Sephirah]

It's taken me decades to be able to "feel male" at all. Growing up, I never felt male, never felt any gender at all. Even now, I feel like I'm playing a role, but like a hollywood actor, I'm "in character" so I take on the male persona. I've been doing it for so long, that it's become a part of me.

That being said, I don't especially *like* feeling male, while I like feeling female a lot better.

I am definitely missing the "deep underlying knowledge that I am female." I've never felt that, even for a moment. I often have female feelings and I want the world to see me as a female so I feel comfortable expressing those feelings and so they'll be accepted and validated.

But I've spoken to a few MtF's lately who've said the same thing - that they never "felt female", just had the feeling that living life as a female was something they needed to do.

Hmm... that's very interesting. Thank you for the answer, it illuminates a lot.

Rather than tell you what I think (because I believe these kind of answers are ones people need to find under their own steam), I have another question, if that's okay.

Do you have an image of yourself in your mind? By that I mean... how to phrase it... during times where there's no role to play, when you're alone with your thoughts and there's no inclination to present as any gender... how do you see yourself in your sort of 'default setting'?

Suppose I asked you to close your eyes and draw the person you see when you see yourself, without thinking about it too much, just a sort of intuitive illustration. Who do you think that would be?

[suzifrommd]

Suppose I asked you to close your eyes and draw the person you see when you see yourself, without thinking about it too much, just a sort of intuitive illustration. Who do you think that would be?

Not something I had to think about until recently. Who is the essential distilled me? I wrote this a couple months ago:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,120103.msg931965.html#msg931965

It's still mostly accurate. What's changed is more of a sense that the female feelings I have are real and a bigger part of me than I previously wanted to admit. My desire to be treated as a woman has intensified so that expressing those feelings is safe and acceptable.

[Sephirah]

What's changed is more of a sense that the female feelings I have are real and a bigger part of me than I previously wanted to admit. My desire to be treated as a woman has intensified so that expressing those feelings is safe and acceptable.

Why do you think that is?

(Sorry, this is the last one. Promise)

[suzifrommd]

Why do you think that is?

(Sorry, this is the last one. Promise)

Please no, Sephirah, I love your questions.

Possible theories:
* Maybe I really am an MtF who is taking her own sweet time recognizing her feelings.
* Maybe I've gotten tired of the social dysphoria. Tired of meeting interesting women, thinking I'm "like" them, watching them keep their distance because they see me as different.
* Tired of social isolation. Hard to make those friendships I find most fulfilling because those folks don't want to be friends with a man.
* Or (I hope not) a chameleon-like jealousy of the MtF's I've been meeting on Susan's and in my support group because expressing their female identity has been so euphoric and freeing for them.

[Sephirah]

Please no, Sephirah, I love your questions.

Okay then, hon. In that case I have a few more. Let's take each of the points seperately.

* Maybe I really am an MtF who is taking her own sweet time recognizing her feelings.

Think about that for a while - how does that idea make you feel?

* Maybe I've gotten tired of the social dysphoria. Tired of meeting interesting women, thinking I'm "like" them, watching them keep their distance because they see me as different.

What is it about these women you find interesting? And following on from that, what is it about them which you feel makes you 'like' them?

* Tired of social isolation. Hard to make those friendships I find most fulfilling because those folks don't want to be friends with a man.

Suppose you found the kind of folks who did want the kind of friendships you speak of, and the fact that your physical appearance is male wasn't a factor - would that make you feel differently about yourself?

* Or (I hope not) a chameleon-like jealousy of the MtF's I've been meeting on Susan's and in my support group because expressing their female identity has been so euphoric and freeing for them.

What is it that you feel these folks have gained that, if this were the case, you would wish for yourself?

You don't have to answer any of these, hon. Just something to think about maybe.