GID and its legal implications

[LordKAT]

I prefer the letter I needed which was that I am in a gender reorientation program.

Not completed transition as this is open to a wide interpretation.

[ToriJo]

Actually the situation in the states is turning very interesting. Two key gender identifying documents, driver license and passport, can now be change without SRS ! To get a marriage license you have to show the couples drivers license to proof age and a gender, or any  other pictured ID that show gender and age,  So....

It's evidence, but it doesn't change your sex (no piece of paper or plastic does).  But, yes, you can probably show that to a clerk and get a license in a state that doesn't actually recognize the marriage as valid.  That would be fraud, is illegal, and the marriage would be considered void.  That's happened to several couples around the nation who thought they were "legally" married.  If I show a driver's license that says "M" in a state that disallows same-sex marriage, and that state uses chromosomes as their criteria, EVEN IF THE CLERK ISSUED THE LICENSE (because he or she probably won't ask for a chromosome test!), I couldn't legally marry anyone with the same chromosome type as me (XY vs XX).  No state has said driver's licenses are definitive proof of sex for marriage.  Same goes for passport.  They are evidence of identity, but they don't change a person's sex (although the law allows clerks to issue licenses in most places by assuming they are correct - it's then on the married parties to be telling the truth, that is telling their sex according to the state's rules on marriage).

A marriage license doesn't make a marriage legal.  What makes a marriage legal is the license plus meeting the criteria.  If I had a passport that said "M" and a driver's license that said "F", that would not allow me to marry whoever I wanted (well, either sex anyhow) in any state by showing the "right" document (in fact, it only allow legal marriage to one sex in every state that doesn't allow same-sex marriage).

Unfortunately many people change their DL and get married into illegal, fraudulent marriages, not knowing that they are fraudulant.  And it's going to continue to hurt some people and their spouses.  It's one thing if you know what you are doing may not be legal, but it's quite another when people think it is.  It's not - you have to meet the state's definition of sex FOR MARRIAGE, which is different from their definition of sex for the DL.

I also know that OPM is about to issue a rule that will unify all Federal and State agencies requirements for gender designation change in IDs, and that is: to have a letter from a TG medical provider stating "that your transition into your new gender has been completed" (No SRS requirement is needed!)

Where can I find out about that?  How would the OPM have jurisdiction over, for example, birth certificates or driver's licenses, particularly considering the epic fail of REAL ID?  I can see them having jurisdiction for personnel matters in positions funded by the feds, but I'm trying to figure out the rest.

[Catherine Sarah]

and that state uses chromosomes as their criteria, EVEN IF THE CLERK ISSUED THE LICENSE (because he or she probably won't ask for a chromosome test!), I couldn't legally marry anyone with the same chromosome type as me (XY vs XX). 

WOW. Bit draconian isn't it? So obviously people from those states, regardless of whatever operations are performed on them, can never change their gender marker.

Thank heavens we aren't that tight fisted here in Oz

Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

[ToriJo]

They can change their gender marker - it's just that the gender marker has nothing to do with whether someone is male or female for the purpose of marriage.  But, yes, the law needs to change.  There's no universal legal definition of male and female in the US.  Every state agency just kind of wings it, and then the judges set their own rules.  (It's why several lesbian couples have gotten married in one area of Texas - the state judge said chromosomes matter, so an XX woman marrying a post-transition XY woman was 100% legal, by court order; the court decision was made to invalidate a marriage of an post-transition XY woman to an XY man, but ended up making it the first place in the nation where lesbians had a pretty good decision under which they could get married - at least if one was trans).

[Dawn Heart]

Here is a good question for us to explore, especially because I suspect some of us fall into this category:

IF you are ALREADY on Social Security Disability and then after the fact, you discover you are TG or otherwise LGBT, and you seek treatment which includes items appropriate to your gender, transition, or other needs...and since GID is expressly NOT covered in the U.S. by SSD or SSI, can they revoke your disability payments or otherwise disqualify you for SSD or SSI based on your GID or gender transition?

Eventually people who transition have their documents changed where and when each state allows it to reflect their new name and gender marker, and this includes going through SS to get your name and gender changed.

Also, I come from the only state that refuses to recognize a TG person for purposes of changing the gender on a birth certificate...this will throw some definite monkey wrenches my way. Can I possibly obtain a new birth certificate from the state I currently live in as part of a complete Identity change? Has anyone dealt with this? 

[Diane Elizabeth]

      When I came out to my SO she said that we were wed under false pretenses.   I just didn't know at the time that I would come to the point of needing to transition after 3 marriages, 3 kids, 8 grandkids.   I feel I need to be true to myself for the first time in my life regardless of the hurt I cause to my family.    Where does this lead to- I guess she can try suing me for false representation of myself to her.   I can't see any criminal intent besides that.

[LordKAT]

Dawn,

Gender has no implications regarding SSI. Payments remain based on income, need and of course available funds. I add that last part due to the condition of of Social security funds in general.