Lack of respect for passing as a young boy/rant

[King Malachite]

That sucks you had to go through that.  I would have gotten mad too.  He should have kept to himself.  Unless he was going to offer to buy a shirt then he should of kept quiet.

[Morgan.]

Unless he was going to offer to buy a shirt then he should of kept quiet.

+1.

[conformer]

How did the guy respond? Just curious.

He held a blank expression for a moment then said "Either you find him a shirt, or leave." and fast walked away calling security on his walkie-talkie. No security came and we were in the store for like another half hour shopping, nor did the manager at the checkout say anything so yep lol.

Unless he was going to offer to buy a shirt then he should of kept quiet.

Hahahahaha! I completely agree

[wheat thins are delicious]

Sounds like he worked there and was just trying to get customers to follow the policies of their store.  Yeah he shouldn't have called you little boy, I would have said "excuse me" if I was trying to get the attention of young men in my store, but your behavior wasn't appropriate either.

Long story short; neither was in the right here.

[Jeatyn]

That isolated incident probably would have been no more than a minor annoyance but I can see it was probably the straw that broke the camels back 

I feel your pain, I've been asked "are your mum and dad home" by SO many door to door salesmen it's not even funny. When I buy ciggys or alcohol and hand over my ID they always stand there scrutinizing for a good 5 minutes with a B.S. type look on their face.

On the flip side though if chuggers stop me in the street I just say "sorry im under 18" and they let me go without question. 

Also one time I was back of a very long line at a shop and some old man started ushering me forwards telling everyone I needed to go first otherwise this line would make me late for school. For some reason nobody argued and I sure as hell wasn't going to either

[Mark]

People will call you what you look like. So unfortunately we look much younger than we are, especially early on in our transition. However, it is kind of ridiculous that you would flip out on a guy for calling you young man, considering you probably do look like a young man. Is it annoying that you get thought of as younger then you are? yes. Is it the workers fault that he thought you were a young man? no.

Best thing you can do is get used to it, otherwise you will be getting mad all the time, and it really isn't anybody's fault.

[Darrin Scott]

I don't see what the big deal is. At least you were read as male. A lot of us don't even get that. I know I look 14 and I'm 26. It's part of the deal. Especially early on. I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.

[Chamillion]

I would be pissed if someone referred to me as a "little boy". Because I wouldn't call someone a little boy unless I thought they were under 12 years old. The implication is that you're less capable than someone who's older, and f that. I wouldn't have flipped out on him, but I would be just as pissed as you are.

When I first started T, I was often read as a 15-16 year old boy and the way people treat boys that age is ridiculous. They either don't think they're capable of anything, or they think they're doing something wrong. I had so many condescending remarks thrown at me in my first year of T, I can't even put them all here. I never reacted to it because I'm really passive and hate offending others, but honestly I wish I had. It's total BS when someone is treating you like you're inferior to them.

The good news is that it'll pass. Teenage boys have to put up with it, and trans guys have to deal with it when we start T. The key is to remember how it felt and be a better person when dealing with someone who looks/is young.

[conformer]

I would be pissed if someone referred to me as a "little boy". Because I wouldn't call someone a little boy unless I thought they were under 12 years old. The implication is that you're less capable than someone who's older, and f that. I wouldn't have flipped out on him, but I would be just as pissed as you are.

When I first started T, I was often read as a 15-16 year old boy and the way people treat boys that age is ridiculous. They either don't think they're capable of anything, or they think they're doing something wrong. I had so many condescending remarks thrown at me in my first year of T, I can't even put them all here. I never reacted to it because I'm really passive and hate offending others, but honestly I wish I had. It's total BS when someone is treating you like you're inferior to them.

The good news is that it'll pass. Teenage boys have to put up with it, and trans guys have to deal with it when we start T.

My feelings exactly. It seems like a lot of guys who posted are fine with being treated like sh*t (similar to as Laura said before) as long as they pass, which is ridiculous imo.

The key is to remember how it felt and be a better person when dealing with someone who looks/is young.

Very true thank you for bringing that up . . because of the stuff I have dealt with I try/will try harder to make sure I don't treat anyone else the same.

[conformer]

And that is why I said what I said in this thread. (although I was actually speaking in a more general sense but the idea is still the same.)

Oops sorry I honestly meant to refer to you in the previous post
*edited*

[V M]

Hi friends 

Let's all try to remember to to respect to rules of the site regarding age and language

Thank you

V M

Also, I'm sorry someone was so rude to you conformer, you look like a nice young man that I would guess to be in there late teens or early twenties

[Nygeel]

My feelings exactly. It seems like a lot of guys who posted are fine with being treated like sh*t (similar to as Laura said before) as long as they pass, which is ridiculous imo.

I just don't see how he treated you poorly. Part of why I think it's a geographical thing. Traditions, customs, etc where you are regarding what's appropriate vs what's not is different from where I am (I'm guessing). Or it could be tone. Those are the only things I could think of that might put better context into the situation. Example: if he shouted "LITTLE BOY!" yea, that'd be rude. If he was far away and started quiet then got louder as you were not paying attention then not rude.

A lot of places have a no shirt, no shoes, no service rule and if that's their rules, that's their rules. Guy's trying to do his job.

[DobbsenEuPrattomen]

I typically don't pass at all (I am pre-hormones and pre-op), but on the rare occasion that I do, I have had some people assume I am much younger than I am. One older lady commented on what clear skin I had for someone my age. I have been lucky enough to not have anyone be so disrespectful to me concerning age... though it may be more a product of my lack of passing in general than anything else. Sorry to hear you have to deal with this problem so much.

[Mark]

My feelings exactly. It seems like a lot of guys who posted are fine with being treated like sh*t (similar to as Laura said before) as long as they pass, which is ridiculous imo.

Very true thank you for bringing that up . . because of the stuff I have dealt with I try/will try harder to make sure I don't treat anyone else the same.

Hey man, I don't know if I'm missing something here but I dont see how you were treated like sh*t. Look, if the worker came over to you and told your brother to wear a shirt, because its store policy, you should have a shirt on him OR get out of the store. I don't know any store I could go to where they would let anyone including kids, not wear shirts.  I'm just not really getting how you were mistreated.

Maybe he thought you were a young punk who didn't want to listen to the rules, and since you snapped at him, He is probably right in thinking so. 

Excepting the fact you probably look younger then your actual age isn't allowing people to treat you poorly. Getting bent out of shape over people not being able to guess your age because you look younger, really seem a little silly. This is not meant to be disrespectful however, i think that if you let people think you're a little younger and ignore it, you will be better off.  Pretty sure 99% of trans men go through this.

[Morgan.]

I think disrespect is very much a matter of perspective, and in this situation, conformer felt as though he had been disrespected and has been offended as a result.

Although I personally think there could have been better ways to handle the situation, I don't think a lot of people would have done differently. It is a frustrating scenario, and I do have to concur with conformer and Laura when they make the point about people being fine with being treated differently as long as they pass. That's my opinion, and I know just passing in general is at much higher priority for a lot of guys (and girls of course).

I think we also don't know whether or not the store conformer has mentioned has a policy requesting that a customer would have a shirt. I know a lot of places do of course, perhaps it is more prominent in the US than it is here.. Here in Australia I see people without shirts in shops all the time.

Who knows. The matter is that conformer felt offended, got it off his chest.

[Arch]

Pretty sure 99% of trans men go through this.

I was read as a student the first time I went into the faculty workroom at my new school. The gals working there were acting really strangely, asking me what I was doing there and trying to sort of intercept me and keep me away from the computers. They suddenly changed when they found out I was a professor.

I was 49 at the time.

To be fair, I had a fresh haircut, a wispy young-guy beard, and a few spots that looked like acne (I had recently had some precancerous lesions zapped on my face). In addition, I was carrying a backpack rather than a briefcase (it was orientation week), and I was dressed all in black like an angst-ridden young man. And I'd been playing around with Just for Men, so I had no gray at the temples. I'm usually read in my thirties, but I guess the unusual combination of features make me look even younger.

It still cracks me up, but I'm glad I didn't have to go through that much weirdness when I was first transitioning. It was bizarre and often frustrating to be seen as almost twenty years younger than I was.

[Jesse7]

I wouldn't like appearing as a child, but I would know people had no way of knowing my real age.
He probably did think you were playing dress up and I don't see how he was he being disrespectful.
He was doing his job. I guess no shirt, no shoes, no service signs are needed after all.

[dalebert]

I know what Conformer looks like. I've seen some of his YouTubes. He seems young, yes, but "little boy" is still a pretty rude term to apply even to someone who looks like a high school student. The more respectful and appropriate term is "young man". If I were trying to get his attn in public, I'm sure that's what I would call him.

I was read as a student the first time I went into the faculty workroom at my new school.

I think I finally look old enough now that it won't keep happening, but I've been constantly getting asked if I go to whatever local school. I'm pushing 44.

Usually I don't mind it. I like being perceived as younger. But the times it was frustrating was when I was in a mode of trying to impress upon people that I was competent. One time was when I was running for office in California and I was mid-30s. I'd be in a suit to impress. I would just go into the mode of talking about all my experiences-- having been in the Navy, finished undergrad at GA Tech, my masters at the USC, several years of experience at a major corporation... Then it would eventually sink in. It was a common experience at that time. Sometimes it wasn't practical though, like at a debate with very limited time. I sometimes felt like I should just announce my age but that never seemed to occur to me as a natural thing to do.

[Arch]

I think I finally look old enough now that it won't keep happening, but I've been constantly getting asked if I go to whatever local school. I'm pushing 44.

This cracks me up. It's also one reason I carry a big briefcase.

My buddy, who isn't trans, still looks very young for pushing forty. He is a prof, but he took a fun class at the local community college and wound up with a twenty-something social crowd. Heard lots of "insider" complaints about this or that professor, and so forth. Didn't want them to know he was in his late thirties and a professor, so he was evasive about the age issue.

My point is that it doesn't happen only to us. People are looking younger for their age these days.

Still, I think that the term "little boy" is clueless--not necessarily rude--and should be reserved for boys in the single-digit age category.

[aleon515]

I think rudeness to children is very common (and not at all ok). You do look young, but not "little boy".


--Jay Jay