I think this is big!

[suzifrommd]

I'm surprised the non-binary folks here are not making a bigger deal about this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/magazine/whats-so-bad-about-a-boy-who-wants-to-wear-a-dress.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&tntemail1=y&emc=tnt

This is the first time I've EVER heard a mainstream article mention genderqueer, genderfluid, or even the concept that someone could be gendered differently from male or female.

From page 1:

Even transgender people preserve the traditional binary gender division: born in one and belonging in the other. But the parents of boys in that middle space argue that gender is a spectrum rather than two opposing categories, neither of which any real man or woman precisely fits.

[Edge]

Personally, the way they equate gender with gender roles makes me wince. This is not what I want associated with non-binary gender identities at all.

[foosnark]

The mainstream is always behind on these things.  This is about 20 steps above the usual "wearing a dress will make him weak and gay!" reaction and a sign that people are starting to accept the idea that gender isn't as restrictive as they thought.

Remember, most people barely recognize a distinction between sex and gender, or between gender and sexuality, and have almost never thought about the difference between identity, role, and presentation.

So while these things are always full of gotchas, I still see this kind of story as a positive step.

[eli77]

Sure there is some irritating language and some weird assumptions and the order is frequently portrayed wrong (clothing/behaviour > cultural/social lens > identity, rather than identity > cultural/social lens > clothing/behaviour), but the article as a whole is interesting. Especially the stuff linking genetics to gender-nonconforming behaviour. That was something I didn't know they'd already started looking at.

Also, I love P.J. and his air quotes. I do that too.

[Edge]

I know. It would just be nice if people made less of a deal about it. No one cares if girls dress and act like "boys." Why do they make such a big deal if a boy dresses and acts like "girls?"

I do like this part:

"Why do you want to be a boy and not a girl?" I asked.

He looked at me as if I were daft. "Because I want to be who I am!"

Oh! I found it! You might like this.

[aleon515]

I personally loved it. I don't care if they had trouble with gender roles, gender presentation, versus gender. I think this is the first mainstream handling I've seen with words like genderqueer, gender variant, etc. in it. About time. Maybe later they can get it more right-- but might be asking a lot.
I think they handled the topic with sensitivity.

I agree re: making a big deal of this, but at some point a certain degree of this should be "within normal limits". Tomboys are nothing, but only because society has changed. I have a friend who grew up in a restrictive ultra-religious world where "tomboyism" was unwelcome.

--Jay Jay

[ativan]

There are far more non-binary people around than many would suspect. It has always been this way.
It's nice that there are articles in magazines, etc that are able to be written about it.
But like most journalism, it's not as well researched as it should be.
It's still a sensationalized style of articles.
They would be well off to do an article on themselves for their lack of accuracy and why they have taken so long to write these articles.
Perhaps they would be a little more realistic, and so would the society that finds it a sensation to 'discover' what many of us have always known.

Ativan

[aleon515]

I disagree that it was sensationalized. Yeah a bit maybe. But there are kids all over that are doing this. This didn't report anything that doesn't exist. I have actually read parent blogs describing this very thing. Actually I know a kid a bit like this. He identifies as male but has presented very girly. This is totally accepted by the parents--just like the article.

I agree though about non-binary is more common than supposed.

--Jay Jay

[Eva Marie]

I think that this article was pretty well written for the average person. We can sit here as subject matter experts and pick it apart, but to joe average the material is presented in a way that's easy to digest. Like foosnark said above the average person has given "0" thought to all of this while we live it everyday. To the average person the concept of genderqueer sounds rather fantastic and far fetched.

I think that the fact that the mainstream press is beginning to run articles like this is encouraging. It's far better than jerry springer coverage.

[foosnark]

I think there are quite a few people out there who would identify as nonbinary and feel better about themselves if they only realized it was possible.  Things like this are a road to realization.

Here's how I started seriously trying to understand my gender: I was supremely bored on a business trip and there was a list at someplace liked Cracked about (sigh) weird fetishes.  One of them was " ->-bleeped-<-."  It sounded a little familiar if not so sensationalized and not primarily a sexual kink, and in finding more about it I started to see the connection, if a bit tenuous, to transgender... and from there to the discovery that I wasn't the only person in the world who was kind of "between" and "other."

So even semi-bad publicity can open doors.  As awareness rises so will the quality of *some* reporting (while the backlash will also grow from less enlightened, but ever less relevant quarters).

[ativan]

Agreed, it was pretty well written for the average joe. It could have been better written if it held to truism that we all know and adhere to. I doubt there was a final proof reading by someone who is non-binary concerning accuracy of concept, though. Almost there, then the little let downs... We are sensitive and we can be more picky, because we live this everyday.
We are well past the point and there is enough momentum within society to accurately word such an article, that comparison to *shudder* Jerry Springer is beneath all but a few bible belters that have the DVD collections for the preservation of their TV god of 'Strange enough to chest bump each other while the other guy flails as they are held back by the staff guy with the Staff shirt'. They also have Judge Judy to preoccupy their brains for other vital information about the world.
In that respect it was very refreshing to read an article from a magazine that actually went in depth, to analyze a subject that is relatively unknown to so many. Especially in the face of the growing intensity and general insaneness of the brain dead far religious right.

I know of a kid like that too. Me. Somehow I managed to find others like me and we would hang out, without having a way to discuss what we knew. We just were.
The ability of the younger to be accepted in today's world, without the level of prejudice that I grew up with is encouraging.

Ativan

[ativan]

Just a blog from Huffington about the article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathleen-massara/its-still-not-easy-being-_b_1771341.html?ir=Women

Ativan

[foosnark]

Well said in that blog post, though there is *some* more acceptance for women dressing "boyishly" than the reverse.  There's still a line where people get freaked out though.

HuffPo has had kind of mixed writing on trans* issues.  I complained to them once about putting an article about a trans athlete under "weird news."  Still generally better than many though.

[aleon515]

Just a blog from Huffington about the article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathleen-massara/its-still-not-easy-being-_b_1771341.html?ir=Women

Ativan

Thanks for posting. I'm not sure this is true everywhere. I have not tried wearing a suit or even just shirt and tie. But my completely male clothes don't even get a sidelong glance from anyone. OTOH, I live in New Mexico. I find this a more accepting place than many.

I think in Santa Fe or Taos males could get away with a lot more feminine appearance. I'm not sure that would go so well all over the state though.

--Jay Jay

[ativan]

Yep, I think the suit and tie reaction in the blog was weird, I just have never heard or seen a reaction like that, but then it's not something I would be really looking for, either.

Even here, in the St Cloud MN area, I doubt there would be much reaction.

Even if it is in the same district that the MOST INSANE POLITICIAN IN HISTORY.
Michelle Bachmann has once again made it through the primaries.
(I just had to throw in a dig at the corporate whore).
(corporate whore being another dig at the ultra far right not a real Christian nut case)
Oh ->-bleeped-<-, to bad, there was another one of my favorite things to do...

Seriously, it's a college town for the most part, and people expect things to be a little different. Like me.

I've been to Santa Fe. Wouldn't mind going back there. In fact I would like it a lot.

Ativan

[Joann]

Y
Even if it is in the same district that the MOST INSANE POLITICIAN IN HISTORY.
Michelle Bachmann has once again made it through the primaries.
(I just had to throw in a dig at the corporate whore).
(corporate whore being another dig at the ultra far right not a real Christian nut case)
Oh ->-bleeped-<-, to bad, there was another one of my favorite things to do...



Ativan

Keep diggin...