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Toxic People, Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde

Started by Julie Wilson, July 24, 2012, 09:50:37 AM

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Julie Wilson

I know this guy whose name is Chris.

Chris never really met or knew me until after I went full-time.  For me transition was an awkward time full of loneliness and desperation.  Chris seemed supportive.  Chris has this sort of enthusiasm he can turn on like flipping a switch.  He can make it seem like you are a child who just learned a new trick and he is an adoring parent who is so proud of you but what it took me years to learn and understand is Chris is an invalidator.

There are people in this world who will be your "friend" and draw you in just so they can hurt you and Chris is one of those people.  He does it over and over and over again.  It is who Chris is.  Think of it as a sort of Jeckyll and Hyde disorder.  Except Chris is always right and you, well you are always wrong.  But how else would it be?  The most obvious thing Chris would do was go on about how I was all woman and how amazing it was, it was like he was so proud and so amazed with me and what I had done.  But then later on Chris would say something like, "You will always be part dude."  Then of course when I would bring it up later he would deny it.  He would say, "I would never say anything like that."  And make it seem like it was my problem.  I was remembering things wrong or he would tell me I was too sensitive.

But he did it over and over again.  Over a period of eight years Chris has been my greatest ally and my worst enemy.

But Chris has a secret that even Chris doesn't know.  You see...  Some people are raised up in such a way that they feel obligated to be a certain way.  For instance one might grow up in a household where being gay is an abomination and because it is such an abomination it becomes something someone could never be, even when they are.  And such a person would go through life over-compensating, trying to be a manly man.  Buying a big motorcycle, having a big 4x4.  Spending all his free time with manly men, drinking too much.  Chris has a penchant for bad boys.  His bromance.  Chris will never allow himself to be gay.  Chris has a best friend who is gay.  Well to Chris this person is or was his "best friend".  But what would this supposed best friend say about Chris?  I know that I was desperate and lonely and so Chris was able to masquerade as my friend and my ally.  It didn't take much.  It didn't take anything.  I filled in all the gaps for him because it was a time when I needed a friend so badly it was easy for Chris to pretend he was my friend.  No doubt his gay friend, someone Chris grew up with was in a similar situation to be taken advantage of.

The thing is Chris is gay but like so many over-compensating gay men Chris will never allow himself to be gay.  To him it is unthinkable.  But Chris can live vicariously through his gay friend or through me.  That's why he keeps us around.  But there are two sides of Chris.  The side of Chris that could never be gay because it was beaten into his childhood head that it is an unthinkable abomination and the side of Chris that is impressed with people who for whatever reason are tired of living up to other people's expectations and go on to live as their true selves.

That is why Chris is able to say ...

"You are all woman now, it's so amazing and your medical past is nobody's business."  And, "Part of you will always be a dude."  "I could never be with someone like you because I'm not gay."

And of course Dr. Jeckyll always denies the last two sentences in that paragraph.  Dr. Jeckyll would never say anything like that, obviously you have some kind of problem because Dr. Jeckyll isn't that kind of a guy.

There are lots of gay men who will never allow themselves to be gay.  Chris is one of them.  Part of me understands Chris because of my GID condition.  When I was little I would act and talk in ways that upset my mother.  She tried to change my behavior using fear tactics.  Telling me I wouldn't be accepted.  Saying I talked and acted like a "queer" and a little "faggot".  I don't know how Chris got conditioned and it doesn't really matter.  I know that by the time I was entering my twenties I had convinced myself that I was a heterosexual male.  I was unable to realize or accept that I was someone who needed to be female.  When you train an animal you beat it so that avoiding a beating becomes more important than anything else.  And human beings are special because we take over where our oppressors leave off and we beat ourselves.  I had been conditioned to keep myself in line.  When I would even think of my need to be female, whenever that need expressed itself I would become overcome with shame and guilt.  I would pray to god to forgive me and I would vow to be normal.  Just like Chris.

But even though I had fooled myself into thinking I was a man there was always something eating at me.  I was always unhappy.  Because when you repress the truth there is a consequence.  One of the consequences of my act of repressing my true self was hatred.  I grew to absolutely hate young happy women, enjoying the lives I had been denied.  On the other hand I was confused because I thought I was attracted to women, because I envied them.  It was that Jeckyll and Hyde thing, tearing me apart inside. 

They say that hatred is a response to fear.  I was so desperately afraid of being queer.  That was a powerful fear that my own mother put into me as a child.  And because of that betrayal by my own mother during such a vulnerable stage in my life, that fear was never dealt with or overcome and it grew up to be a monster.  As I grew that fear grew with me and it became my companion, my demon.  It was that thing that gave rise to Mr. Hyde and no matter how desperately Dr. Jeckyll tried to repress it, it would always eventually come out.

Can I blame Chris for what he has been doing to me for the last eight years?  Not really.  But since Chris will probably never overcome his fears I will have to protect myself by avoiding Dr. Jeckyll because you never know when Mr. Hyde is going to come out.

No doubt some of you have met people just like Chris.  I recommend cutting them out of your life as much as possible as they are some of the most insidiously toxic people you will ever meet because they know how to subtly destroy you when you are at your weakest and most vulnerable.
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AbraCadabra

#1
Some interesting insights, yes.
But as always "it takes two to tango" i.e. it takes a "user" and it takes one willing to be "used". ("Use me, till I'm all used up...")
It is a learning experience to not get really all badly vibed about it... SINCE WE, ALLOWED IT, to become used.
I'd done it, full well knowing, and as in your case I was needy enough to let it go on - until I had my fill with a highly functioning sociopath "friend".
But I agree, relationships based on such dynamics are simply unhealthy and will cause hurt, sooner or later.

Thank you for sharing your insights,
Axélle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Cindy

A nice post, thank you.

In my experience I have met the Chris's and I have recognised them for what they are, and I feel sorry for them. Fortunately I have never let other people opinions be of any great concern, so their comments are water off my back.

The other people I have met, and maybe Chris is one as well, is those who live, or try to, their life through you.

"I wish I could do what you are doing but my circumstances make it too difficult."  Their circumstance are usually exactly the same or easier than what we have coped with.

They have a variety of excuses to validate their position. None of which are valid. They just lack the guts to be themselves.  They cannot put themselves out of their 'comfort' zone because they lack the character and fortitude we have. Sometimes we feel such snivelling weak people, but in fact we are incredibly strong. No one does what we do if they are weak. No one does what we do for fun. We do it because we are strong people who have to live their lives, rather than pretending to be something we are not.

The other group, that I truly despise, are the trophy hunters. I noticed them in the 70's particularly at dinner parties that were popular then, "I've asked XX to join us tonight, he is Gay but so nice, do make him welcome."  We get the "this is Cindy, isn't she gorgeous?" And then the 'you know she is TG 'will be slipped in somewhere. I loathe those people with a vengeance. I'm no ones trophy.

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V M

I don't want to use anyone's name because I feel it unfair to people with the same name, but I definitely can relate to the type of person you are talking about

It was before I knew it was even possible to transition, but the personality traits you describe were all there

The only thing I could possibly add is that this person I had to deal with was very possessive and controlling

I've gotten over a lot of it but I still tend to keep my guard up to avoid falling into a similar situation
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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Kelly J. P.

 I haven't met someone like that before, per se, but I have met people who are mildly similar. People that are kind to you until you're out of listening range.

I haven't had a friend who wasn't like that so far, and the result of those experience has damaged me in a significant way.
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Julie Wilson

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on July 25, 2012, 05:47:32 AM
I haven't met someone like that before, per se, but I have met people who are mildly similar. People that are kind to you until you're out of listening range.

I haven't had a friend who wasn't like that so far, and the result of those experience has damaged me in a significant way.


I think almost all people are like that.

I don't know what it is or why it is so common that as women who transition we are always seeking validation and acceptance.  Seeking validation and acceptance is a really unhealthy position to be in.  But I suppose we need to manifest our reality and because the reality is one that tends to be shared we need to get feed-back from others.  We need to know we are fitting in because we are social creatures.

I used to get upset at m2f trans people who didn't assert that they were female, if they left any ambiguity in their statements I would become upset at them.  But really, the assertion that we are female isn't a female thing.  Females don't have to assert that they are female, they just are.  They don't even think about it, they certainly don't worry about it.

We on the other hand can have tremendous social hurdles to overcome but they never give us normal hurdles.  Instead they give us these hurdles that are infinitely high and entirely impossible to hurdle.  They make it impossible to be who we are.  The only solution is to no longer play by their rules.  When the opposition knows we are someone who transitioned they will make things impossible for us.  We try to absorb that impossibility because it is in our hearts and our heads to make things work.  We keep trying to succeed.  But you can't play by their rules if you ever want to win.
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AbraCadabra

"But you can't play by their rules if you ever want to win."

You are right, in 'our' situation specifically we HAVE to mind our OWN rules, as the 'game plan' is so much out of the ordinary, so 'far out'. Trying to bend and fit into what others insist to be "normal" will cause too much anxiety, so?

We, will do it OUR way, and say: "I've done it MY way..." ;)

Axx

Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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MariaMx

I have a Chris myself, but luckily he's of the opposite kind and has been my best friend the past 20 years. The person you describe sounds like someone with psychopathic tendencies. During and after my transition I was however employed by a rather toxic personality. For about 5-6 years I managed his company while he was away living the high life drinking and whoring in Copacabana. Eventually he would be more and more around and started terrorizing me in the work place. I did eventually quit, but before I left I gathered all the evidence I need to burn him to the ground should I ever feel like it, which I very well might do someday. Around the time I quit I witnessed unspeakable acts committed by this person, so he certainly would deserves it.
"Of course!"
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wendy

Dear Noey I really like your posts.  I think you are very insightful.

I liked your posts on Detransition thread and can no longer read them because thread is gone.

I worked hard to express my feelings Accepted or Rejected and they are gone too.

..............................
I am guilty of being toxic.  It is great way to ward off bullies but it hurts people that love you and try to help.

Being toxic might be passed from one generation to next.  Hopefully it can stop with me.  I am proud of my ex and my children as they are kind and loving people.
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UCBerkeleyPostop

Wendy,

I was going to suggest that you cut and paste your story and start a blog. I guess it is too late although posting that stuff must have been, although painful, redemptive and therapeutic. If I were you and had the time, I would just go back and rewrite it. Put it in a Word document and then cut and paste it to your blog.

Journaling is great therapy!

Here is the link to Susan's blog forum: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?board=64.0
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Julie Wilson

Hi Wendy,

I go through periods of trying to avoid trans head space and periods of feeling like I need to post on a forum like this and I am never sure where my head is going to be.  But feel free to shoot me a PM anytime.

^_^
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Snowpaw

Funny, I know a person just like that, his name is chris. I stopped talking to him.
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meia

Sadly i am toxic in my own way it ruins all my relationships without fail and i am often told truth i rather no know

that has probably now stop anyone here speaking to me but sometimes you see a thread and feel you have to be truthful
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AbraCadabra

Well now, aren't we all 'toxic' at some time or another, I may ask?

I think it becomes an issue -and mostly for ourselves more so than for others- if it constitutes a way of life, a kind of entitlement thinking...

Having said that, I must be such an innocent... still; as I have no idea what all this stuff with wearing a bra or no bra seems to be all about. Really don't.

Best to remain innocent about all this, and save toxins for some more discerning course, said the snake. :laugh:
Axélle


Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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UCBerkeleyPostop

Quote from: Axélle on August 17, 2012, 07:10:29 AM
Well now, aren't we all 'toxic' at some time or another, I may ask?

I think it becomes an issue -and mostly for ourselves more so than for others- if it constitutes a way of life, a kind of entitlement thinking...

Having said that, I must be such an innocent... still; as I have no idea what all this stuff with wearing a bra or no bra seems to be all about. Really don't.

Best to remain innocent about all this, and save toxins for some more discerning course, said the snake. :laugh:
Axélle

I always put on my PINK bra before I post.  :angel:
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Jamie D

#15
Quote from: wendy on August 17, 2012, 11:45:30 AM
Jamie I changed post.  It was a back handed compliment to an anonymous very special lady friend. 

I apologize to my very special lady friend that tries to help me even though I am toxic.

I apologize to my ex who put up with me for over 30 years.  She is my pinnacle of a woman and she gives totally of herself.  I could never be that kind and wonderful.

..........

When I was young I got beatings at home and at school by young boys for being different.  I am also slightly paranoid and scared and angry inside.  If I perceive I am being attacked I scream or cry depending on circumstances.

Somehow I need to retrain myself.  I can not wear a scarf, I can not wear earrings, I can not do my nails, I can not hug people.   Why????   Why????

It is not against God.  It is against some social rules.  I was a nice sensitive effeminate little boy that liked to hug.  Is that so bad that I needed to be beaten?

If someone cuts through armor I will cry or scream because scared person inside is being exposed.
..............................

Hey I'm toxic and have bad jokes.  So sue me.  Talk to my lawyer.

I strongly urge the use of emoticons and or sarcasm tags [sarcasm] [/sarcasm]
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UCBerkeleyPostop

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AbraCadabra

Quote from: wendy on August 17, 2012, 12:29:24 PM
You are correct. Sorry.

SO SUE ME! :)

[sarcasm]
SO SUE ME! :)
[/sarcasm]

Like THAT sweetie... eish.

[sarcasm]
We may just have more than one ass-burger reading your stuff other than yourself, see?
And as you know --- being prone to hear/read 'voices' more than the Virgin Of Orleans: Jeanne D'arc, see note *)
[/sarcasm]

*) "Jeanne d'Arc's virginity was attested by consilium of experienced women and widows, they all certify a fact of her virginity."
Makes one wonder how that was done...?

Sounds pretty dang toxic to me if you'd ask.  :embarrassed:

Axélle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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