Estrogen Balance/Several Questions

[fairview]

Hi.  I've been lurking on this site for a long time.  I don't know if I am transsexual I may be; I may not be; I surely don't know.  I do know that my body type is typical endomorph (think NFL lineman) and I'm fairly certain there isn't enough surgery or if there is I wouldn't be able to afford it or live long enough to have enough of it to make me appear like anything else other than a very large and masculine woman with breasts.  This is coffee cup reality here.  In other words I have learned how to make lemonade with the lemons I have been handed.

I've done a search and looked at 60 pages in this forum and can not find anything remotely related to my confusion.  Several years ago, although unknown to me I was suffering from severe depression.  I pretty much withdrew from life, eventually the bathroom scales read 'ERR' as I was weighing in over 400lbs.  One day, I needed a new pair of trousers and Target did not have a pair that I could button around my waist.  I wasn't sure but I thought I may have a weight problem.  (That is hilarious in hindsight now.)

My wife convinced me to see a doctor.  After some tests, pokes, pricks, prods and one body cavity intrusion, I was rescheduled for a followup the next week.  Next week roles around, he shows me my blood panel results.  I have less testosterone than a post menopausal woman.  He gives me a shot and sends me home with a script for T. Depot and self injection.  Fast forward 3 months later for a followup, my estradiol is higher than is 'normal' and he gives me a script for arimedex.  Hit the FF button 2x to present day, 3 years later I have lost more than half my body weight without surgery or drugs, I've  reentered life and have interests and hobbies again.  I'm going to night school.

So what's the problem you ask? Based on how I felt during the 3 months without the arimedex, let's just say I may have been less than totally compliant taking the arimedex for extended period of times since then.  During these less than compliant times I have felt the way I thought 'normal' people always felt.  I lost that extremely large chip on my shoulder.  Differences of minor opinion were just that.  They were no longer battles to be won. 

So if you are still with me, the question is can a male have a higher estrogen requirements to maintain balance?  Does a condition like this even exist?  Is there a name for this?  What would be the right words to use with my doctor so he doesn't think I am out in left field somewhere?  Do I need to see a doctor other than my family physician? 

Based on my experiences, I think I may know what I need to maintain a balanced emotional state but I don't want to do it via self medication.  The most self medication I've done is to self adjust dosages of the T (downward) which I could feel put me back into a spiral of decline and not take the arimdex for extended periods of time which gave me a balanced outlook.  I surely don't want to bring estrogen into this equation without a doctor.   That isn't the confusing part.  The confusing part is I don't know enough to know what or how to talk about this or if it even exists.  Everything I've been able to research about GID is that it has been an all or nothing scenario with full transition.  Perhaps if we had the knowledge and ability 30 year ago that we have today, that would have been a serious option then, but no now.  At 55 I'm not sure I'm willing to volunteer for a second more complicated puberty.  If I remember correctly, the first was painful enough.

Thanks to those that have been patient enough to read through TMI about a complete stranger.

[Beth Andrea]

Welcome to our little corner of the world!

I can't diagnose anything, but it seems to me that you are pretty capable of describing what is happening to yourself. Most doctors will appreciate that (imho).  See your doc, tell him/her that you'd like to discuss a possible situation with gender issue(s) related to hormone levels.

the question is can a male have a higher estrogen requirements to maintain balance?  Does a condition like this even exist?  Is there a name for this?

If I understand you correctly, you're happiest when you have high E levels, but you don't want to fully transition? I can't answer that...and possibly neither could your doctor. A therapist might be in order at that point, both to rule out GID (which is no longer called that iirc) and to help you understand the potential consequences of having high E levels and lower-ish T levels (more delicate bones, some loss of muscle mass, more emotional response, etc)

Good luck!

[fairview]

Disappointed that I seem to be the only one here that is so 'whatever I am.'

[MadelineB]

It is only a theory (though probably a pretty good one) that the human brain can take on typically male, typically female, or blended patterns. How and in what ways one's brain is gendered could affect how sex hormones affect emotions, moods, and mental functioning. If a person's brain was female patterned, they would probably feel more normal on estrogen and feel out of sorts and not like themselves on testosterone.

It is unusual but not unheard of that a person goes on cross gender hormones for their emotional health even though they do not present as that gender for one reason or another. Most of us find that how we feel about our gender inside, and how we present to the world, are not really subject to much choice, because if we go against our natures it causes dysphoria, sadness, depression, pain.

Only you and your therapist could explore what is right for you. Hormones are tricky because they do create permanent irreversible changes over time, so it is never a good idea to be noncompliant with your doctor's instructions and not tell that doctor. They can also have life threatening side effects that need to be addressed and prevented as much as possible.

Good luck!

[fairview]

It is unusual but not unheard of that a person goes on cross gender hormones for their emotional health even though they do not present as that gender for one reason or another. Most of us find that how we feel about our gender inside, and how we present to the world, are not really subject to much choice, because if we go against our natures it causes dysphoria, sadness, depression, pain.

Thank you.  Thank you for letting me know that there are a few other individuals that may be in my predicament.  My first introduction to transgender was with the name of Renee Richards circa 1976. I was 18 at the time and along with the rest of society I was homophobic.  Did I mention it was 1976.  Think it is hard to gain acceptance and understanding in 2012; try dealing with this confusion as an 18 year old in 1976.  Admitting to this confusion as a heterosexual male at that time not only would have been equivalent to being excommunicated from society but your own family may have kept you locked away in isolation.  There were only two standard choices at that time.  Either you were heterosexual or homosexual, straight or gay, being queer was far worse than being homosexual.  Being queer (male wanting to be female or vice versa) was dangerous and could get you hurt or worse.

So I did everything I thought necessary to prove to myself I was a heterosexual male and disprove any other preposterous notion.  Did time as a Marine; came out 6'-1" with a 48" chest, 28" waist and legs that doubled as utility poles.  Have been married to the same woman (martyr) for 32 years, blessed with numerous children and blessed many times over now with grandchildren.  I am now 55 and if my circle of influence only extended around myself, I would have to admit I would be cutting line for gender reassignment. My needs, the needs of one individual can not supersede the needs of many.  I can not and will not risk putting the lives of so many people into turmoil but I can try to eliminate a long running contradiction in my brain.   If you think that is confusing, like the song says, you should see it in color. 

[MadelineB]

Thank you for sharing Fairview. Many of us have spent decades where we fled into armored suits of manhood, duty, and honor, and learned to put everyone's needs before our own. They say that the incidence of ->-bleeped-<- in the service is twice the regular population, and even higher in the high risk areas like the marines and special forces. I never served but admire those who did. Thank you for your service.

Sometimes it takes much of a lifetime to come to terms with this war inside ourselves that we can never win. At some point most of us sue for peace because we can't fight it any more. I hope you find friendship here and understanding ears, whether or not transition is ever part of your plans or need.

I can tell you a few things from my own experience: as we get older, it does get more difficult to transition into looking like the beautiful young woman we wished we could be (on some level); however, all women age and change over time, and at 55, for instance, most women have started to appear more masculine or androgynous due to hormonal changes and aging. Many find that it isn't impossible at all to be able to blend in with your sisters of the same age, once they dare to try. Hormones, haircuts, makeup, these are all part of the standard equipment. You'd be amazed what can happen when that last barrier falls, the one that says "it could never happen for me".

For me, I'm about as stubborn as they come; the break through came when I realized that if I didn't start on the road to transition, I probably wasn't going to survive much longer, and my loved ones would lose a lot more than my familiar appearance and masculinity, they would be attending my funeral. At some point we have to live for ourselves too or we lose the ability to keep living for others. Those who are comfortable in their own head and their own skin, are much more capable of giving to others, so it is not a win/lose equation. You just have to find your most authentic life and start living it, one step at a time, whatever that may be.

[Cindy]

Hi Fairview,

Don't get too beat up on the age. I started hormones at 58 , I'm now FT without surgery, and very happy for the first time in my life. I came out to my religious Catholic parents when I was about 13. All I knew was that I was a girl. They disagreed.

It is not uncommon for guys with gender problems to seek a very masculine life. I did as well, and many of the woman here also did service, drove trucks, jumped out of planes, were in the police, fire brigade. you name any 'male' job and someone here did it. I think one of the reasons we get married and have children is the 'hope' we will suddenly be normal. But it doesn't work, we are normal.

That said not everyone seeks or wants complete sexual reassignment. Many are content to acknowledge their sexuality and gender issues and cope. Some take low dose hormones and cope. Their are no rules and their is no right and no wrong way of dealing with our issues. There is NO such thing as someone being more or less transgendered than someone else. We are what we are. Fortunately at Susan's the vast majority also understand that and are so willing to help others in their journey no matter the road being followed.

Hormonal levels have little to do as to whether you are TG or not. My testosterone levels were normal for a male my age, prior to hormonal treatment, it is now none existent. I also had no or little testicular function in that I was sterile (due to an incident in my youth). But I could still get erections.

As you appear mentally comfortable with low T and higher oestrogen levels, I would suggest you explain that to your Dr. I realise that the USA is bedevilled with people who can have extreme right wing views about sexuality but a good medic should be treating the patient and not imposing their own views of life.

As you are also comfortable and content with your lifestyle and family it would be very difficult for you to desert them to follow a course of action you are unsure of.

Many people try very hard to keep the family unit together as they transition, but it is the exception rather than the normal for such relationships to survive, even with the best of intentions.

As we so often say, it may be very beneficial to talk to a qualified gender therapist. Not to seek help in undergoing sex reassignment but to explore your feelings and help you understand your thoughts and desires.

Hugs

Cindy

[Joann]

I think one of the reasons we get married and have children is the 'hope' we will suddenly be normal. But it doesn't work, we are normal.

Well said.

[Catherine Sarah]

Hi fairview,

My needs, the needs of one individual can not supersede the needs of many.

May I respectfully disagree with you on this matter. To love someone else, it is essential for you to love yourself first. Anything else is a contradiction and fallacy. Putting it another way. If you were in a life threatening situation and the needs of someone else in your circle of influence was of substantially lesser need, surely your needs are of greater importance?

I can not and will not risk putting the lives of so many people into turmoil

Who has determined these lives will be in turmoil? Surely you aren't making up other people's minds for them. ....... I did!!  MAJOR mistake.

From the turmoil I predicted, for my circle of influence, came liberation instead. Sure; shock and dismay initially for allowing shame and guilt to suppress the truth. But in the final wash up, everyone has experienced liberation, in now knowing and understanding the real me; not the person who was acting out someone who he wasn't. And admiration for having the guts to do what I have done.

How much pain and loss have the Olympians experienced to become who they are? How much pain and loss have we experienced to become who we are?

but I can try to eliminate a long running contradiction in my brain.

GID (Gender Identity Disorder) cannot be eliminated as such. It doesn't go away, unless it is managed to a point of finality. Compromise and negotiation won't work long term.

It is managed in a variety of ways, depending on the individual, to a point where complete and sustained congruency exists between mind and body; however and by whatever means it takes.

There are no absolutes, as each individuals case is absolutely unique. Sure there are some commonalities. SRS or GCS is not for everyone, HRT is not for everyone. It's a concoction of numerous methodologies, depending on what works for that individual.

Be safe, well and happy.
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

[fairview]

Hi Fairview,

Don't get too beat up on the age. I started hormones at 58
Cindy

Cindy if it was only the age there would probably be some wiggle room in this for me.  I want you to try to get this mental image.  First the easy stuff.  Looking at your avatar, I would put money down that my forearms would give your calves a run for their money in size and if I didn't win, it would be a tie.  Based on your lines, I would say my calves do exceed your thighs.   There is no way around it, I am big boned.  Perhaps big is an understatement. Now this is where you need to actively use your imagery skills.  We're both old enough to have had decent world history classes in high school.  I want you to think about WW II and Germany's misguided goal of creating the Aryan super race.  That's me.  I have so much forehead bossing that I would probably scare a cromagnon man. I would wear out a Milwaukee side angle grinder but it's doable; I give you that.  But good lord, how would I deal with a 8.25"+ head size.  I haven't been able to buy an off the shelf baseball cap since high school. So package all that together, mix in some hormones, GRS plus all the feminization surgery in the world (which I don't have the money for) and the end product is still a man with long hair and breasts wearing a skirt and make-up.  I make light of it, but seriously I call it realistic expectations. 

Many people try very hard to keep the family unit together as they transition, but it is the exception rather than the normal for such relationships to survive, even with the best of intentions

Cindy

Spoken with wisdom that can only be gained with age.  Once again realistic expectations

Cindy, I do have a question for you though since we are similarly aged.  When your estrogen/testosterone levels were being 're-balanced' did you experience any significant lower back pain and or lower neck pain?  If you did, did it go away after the shift?  Like I said I do not self medicate but there are times I may not be compliant for prolonged periods of time.  Because of part failure and expired warranty, my dc has my on supplemental T injections.  I may have missed more than a few injections over an extended period of time.  Mentally I felt great, physically I was eating Ibuprofen like candy so I could just get out of bed.  If you have any experience here, I appreciate it if you would share it with me, even by PM. 

Thanks

[Joann]

He gives me a shot and sends me home with a script for T. Depot and self injection.  Fast forward 3 months later for a followup, my estradiol is higher than is 'normal' and he gives me a script for arimedex.

Do you drink?

A similar problem happened to me. I started taking E but my heavy drinking was preventing my liver from removing the estriol and for 2 month i got a good taste of the girl within. It felt good. I felt cheerful, optimistic, strangely sensual and i couldn't believed i was so depressed for 30+ years (im 50) And that's what finally woke me up to what i was. Ive attenuated my drinking. Libido is returning, weight is coming down but the good feeling is gone.
Im going to stay on T for now to see if it improves my MS symptoms.