Susan's Place Logo

News:

Please be sure to review The Site terms of service, and rules to live by

Main Menu

kids in pink laces.

Started by ALX, October 21, 2012, 11:52:01 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ALX

Hey,
I'm an FtM on the board here, and one of the couple of us with kids. My middle son is very feminine and loves all the girls stuff.. Don't get me wrong he's probably the toughest of my kids, and yet the gentlest. The other day with the Halloween costumes he wanted a long blonde wig, I got it for him, and he said "look! my dream came true". He's ten, I think he is one of the bravest people I know, if I do say so myself. It scares the crap out of me because I am afraid of the rough road ahead. He wears pink shirts and shoe laces to class on free dress days, and has defied a principal telling him he couldn't wear that, and won the argument.  So far he's met peer pressure with a "so?" attitude and right now he's generally really well liked. With puberty coming up though, I am afraid of things getting a lot harder and I worry about him getting hurt. He is the sweetest person I know, he's all heart. I'm worried about what happens when that heart gets broken as happens to all of us from time to time. I know a lot of you still have a lot of questions for yourself, as I do for myself.. but if you can think back to being ten years old.. what would you think would have helped you be happy most? I know puberty will be coming soon.. looking back, what do you think can make a difference? What can I do to help him through the hard times? I hope you don't mind me asking, it's just that I lived my life by blending in, he lives his out loud. The opposite of me. It seems to me he has a more extrovert nature like some of you..
so.. do you have any suggestions for me?
Thanks Girls.
  •  

Sybil

Um, I'm not really sure if you're posting on this board with the assumption that your "son" is MtF. Since this is the MtF board, I'm going to assume you're thinking that and that's why you're here.

I think having a really supportive parent is amazing, especially one who's been through transition even if you are at the other end of the spectrum. I think the largest chunk of support is purely emotional and not directional/guided; being there for someone, reassuring them that they'll be okay, not criticizing, being accepting of their feelings and realizing when a good time to give advice is and when a good time to just listen is. As someone who's been through something similar, I think that position will come very easily to you.

With that said, a trans woman's life is a LOT easier if she gets on hormones/testosterone blockers right at the start of puberty. I think they only put kids on testosterone blockers, but don't quote me on that - it might be estrogen, too. Encourage her to get work as soon as she can and save up for GRS when she turns 18, or start a fund yourself. If she decides she doesn't want it and is fine with just gender expression or a female gender identity, there will be a nice little nest egg of money there for whatever else.

I would talk to your child a few times and see how s/he really feels. They would know best. If your child insists that she's a girl, then stick up for her and help her along with it. If your child insists that he's a boy who wants to act like a girl and put on some girly stuff or colors or whatever, then just be there for him when he needs you most and help him do what he wants to do. Either way, your child is really brave and really seems to believe in him or herself. I think they can work out their problems as long as you continue to show your love for them, both as a parent and as a human being who believes in their feelings and choices.
Why do I always write such incredibly long posts?
  •  

Ms. OBrien CVT

The best thing I could say is be supportive and ask your "son".  You know how to ask as you are FtM.

And just for a little FYI, I am told that to hunt moose in Canada you wear pink.

And if s/he is MtF, just be there for him/her.

  
It does not take courage or bravery to change your gender.  It takes fear of living one more day in the wrong one.~me
  •  

Michelle G

Well, at 10 I knew good and well what I should be, but it was just easier to make others happy with what they wanted to see....it was a whole different era back then!

Just be patient and understanding and he should be fine, so many of us never got that and went years on end living a life of frustrations and disappointment.

Your child is very lucky to have you :)
Just a "California Girl" trying to enjoy each sunny day
  •  

JenniL

You should ask your child how they see themselves. Like Sybil pointed they know themselves better and you have experienced this part so you have a more open mind to a lot of other parents :)

By the way, your kid sounds like an awesome and smart kid, I mean he won an argument against the principle :)

As for Hormone blocking, I think it's worth investigating to delay puberty especially if he says he is unsure. From what I gather its a shot given once a month to prevent the gonads from producing hormones.


  •  

tekla

The NFL wears pink laces and pink shoes, and pink gloves during October.  And to the degree that he 'lives out loud' as you put it, then his problems will be greatly reduced.  All that bad stuff happens in the shadows, he'll just be the popular kids who happens to be _________.   Whatever he chooses to fill that blank in with.

http://www.nfl.com/pink
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Maddie

Quote from: ALX on October 21, 2012, 11:52:01 PMdo you have any suggestions for me?

Beware of gender stereotypes. In retrospect, I suppose I would have wanted to go on hormones before I hit puberty, but I cannot say with certainty that I could have freely made that decision aged ten. There were too many competing influences. There are times I am saddened by the realisation that I likely will not have children of my own. After all, that is what evolutionary fitness is about. Had I gone on hormones at that age, I suspect that sadness would have been more acute once it hit me, and I might very well have killed myself. Pink laces and t-shirts, so what? I've known children who wore both, and they were neither gay nor transgender. Who knows, maybe having a functional FtM for a parent makes the kid want to be TG? To make you happy? When I was that age, I would have liked to have ballet lessons. Even more, I wanted to become an astronaut. Why am I not an astronaut? My mathematics teachers weren't good enough, so I lost interest in the fundamentals and ultimately did not pursue advanced degrees in subjects that would have qualified me for space missions. Instead, I just did the stuff that came easy to me. Art, literature, architecture, history, meditation. It clearly would have been better if I had attended one of those specialised schools for gifted kids, and followed a hard science path. I also should have joined the air force, even though I hate the military more than you can imagine. Just get all the pilot training done, let the bastards court martial me later for refusing to fly combat missions. Or, forget about space, what about life sciences? Be like David Attenborough, someone who really gets to explore the rich complexity of life on this planet. I would love to do that. Didn't even consider the possibility. That's what I would have wanted. Not the fuzzy "Oh, you're so great at this, you should be a writer/artist/director!" encouragement I got. Even if I'd gone on hormones back then, I still would be dissatisfied now. I keep reading anecdotes about how transitioning made people lose all their cares and woes, as if "gender" were the most important thing. I don't buy it.
  •  

suzifrommd

In a lot of places, there are gender therapists who see kids. Do you think it would help to offer your son the opportunity to speak to one?
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
  •  

Carlita

Although I have not yet transitioned, my closest friends and family know that I am transgender and define myself as such ... or rather, that is ONE of the ways I define myself - as well as husband, father, writer, etc. So ...

A couple of weeks ago I was having a drink with one of my oldest male friends. My friend told me that his 10 year-old son had gone with him to a big family wedding recently. The kid had been out on the dance floor, having a great time with a group that was mostly girls his age and their mothers. When the music ended the boy went back to his dad and said, 'I wish I'd been a girl.' So now my friend figured that i was as good a person to ask about whether there was any reason to be concerned and, if so, what should he do next?

I told him that there were a lot of different ways of looking at what his son had said. It could just be a light-hearted, silly remark that didn't mean anything. Or, just a bit more significantly, it could be an indicator of the fact that these days there are some ways in which girls appear to be the most successful and approved-of sex, from a junior school pupil's perspective (because boys that age are mostly being taught by female teachers and coming way behind the girls in pretty well every test). Also girls can do more stuff than boys, because they can be tomboys and dress like boys and do boy things and nobody minds. But boys can only do 'boy stuff'... heck, they can't even come to school dressed in anything pink. So whereas there were centuries when girls envied boys for having so much more freedom, now a boy might feel the same way.

But that doesn't mean he has a gender identity disorder. Nor, I said, would he have GID if he just wondered what it would be like to be a girl ... that's just a sign of an active imagination.

So the only thing that might suggest GID would be if dancing with all the girls made him feel more at ease, more true to his real nature, happier and at home with people just like him ... and then that magical fantasy bubble burst when he had to walk off the floor and be a boy again.

But at 10, a little boy may not be able to express that. And even if he could express that, he'd probably feel scared and ashamed about what other people might think. So the best thing for a parent to do is not to make a big deal of it, or push a child to give an answer - that can easily drive them into their shell - but judt ...

Love your son and let him be absolutely secure in that love
Let him know that you love him however he is
Let him know that you will always support him in trying to find himself and be true to himself
Let him know that you will always take his side against people who try to put him down
Set an example of tolerance towards people who don't conform to norms and stereotypes
And then just watch and listen, so that when he sends out any more little signals you are ready to receive them, talk with him and, if it comes to it, seek expert guidance.

That's what I said to my friend ... only it took a bit longer, what with the beers!
And that's what I'd say to you too ALX ...

Apart from adding: good luck ... as others have said, you can empathise in a way most parents can't and I'm sure you'll find the right way through this whole situation.
  •  

A

First, don't assume right off the bat that your son is a she. There's a pretty decent chance it's the case, but there are also boys who are happy being girly boys.

However, it can't be denied that you might have a little trans girl there. The good thing is that he's (well, let's go with he for now because it's confusing and we're not sure yet, shall we?) extraverted enough to make it obvious at such a young age, so you can act now, and avoid at least part of the depression and many other bad effects that could come with puberty.

I think your best course of action is to bring him to a psychologist and the doctor - possibly the very same ones you yourself saw if you trust them - and get his situation evaluated and, if GID seems likely, get hormone puberty blockers as soon as possible.

That's the wisest thing to do when you have a possibly trans child, and what's widely advised. It saves them much of the psychological and, above all, physical effects of puberty, and makes transition, if it happens, much easier. On the other hand, if later on, he decides that he is indeed a he, which happens pretty often if we listen to doctors working in the domain, he can just stop blockers, and puberty will initiate itself normally.

Puberty blockers allow your child the time to take an informed decision, free of the panic and hurry from seeing their whole body changing in an ugly way, and contrary to early HRT and doing nothing, they make both genders viable options when a decision is taken.

They make all the difference, seriously. If there's one important thing you can do for your child, it's that. If he is a he and just goes as a guy, he won't have any problem. Just like many other guys, he'll have a kinda late puberty and won't have the slightest problem with it, normally. But if he's a she, then you'll have saved her all the trouble with body and facial hair and VOICE and muscle and height and bones all the rest of the awful stuff, while allowing her to have a normal ribcage, hips, etc. It's a win-win situation, really.

So while not all doctors are willing to prescribe blockers, if investigating, with a professional or not, shows that it's likely that there's a gender issue, I think you should make finding someone who'll prescribe blockers your number one priority. Because once the physical harm is not a worry anymore, you can focus without worry on the actual issue and make sure.

Also, another very helpful thing is not to put pressure on him either way. Trying to influence him by showing him what a guy is, or by making him do guy's things, that won't help him. The same is true for girl's things. Whatever he is in the end, it's important that he be allowed to be himself, and to determine himself who he is deep down. Second after my body, I think my parents' actions in that regard, in trying to make me a real guy, were what messed me up the most.

Also, while not influencing him, if you suspect there really is a gender issue to be looked into, it might be useful to discuss it deeply, and insist that he thinks about it deeply, too. When I was young, I was asked about it, and because transsexuals were gross in my mind, I didn't allow myself to be one, with disastrous consequences. Now, you child is like ten thousand times more extraverted than I am, but still. Sometimes, people can hide things very well even when they display the rest very readily.

I, for example, was pretty much always kind of girly, but I only once asked for the permission to be a girl, and when I was told no, it was no forever in my mind, and I never mentioned it again until adolescence, in a figurative form, and waited until I was almost an adult to say it out loud again. So while you shouldn't jump to conclusions, it can be a critical mistake to just wait and see how it goes, and disregard something because it's not very persistent in your eyes. I've said it a ton, but that's why I think blockers and psychological investigation are the wisest decision you can make.
A's Transition Journal
Last update: June 11th, 2012
No more updates
  •  

V M

Hi ALX  :)

Everyone is welcome to discuss their gender issues here and we are always happy to help the best as we can

The best that I can recommend is to be supportive of your child, a supportive and involved parent can have a big impact on a child's development and can be most important during the formative years

They will decide on their own which way they wish to go over time
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
  •  

Ave

Quote from: ALX on October 21, 2012, 11:52:01 PM
Hey,
I'm an FtM on the board here, and one of the couple of us with kids. My middle son is very feminine and loves all the girls stuff.. Don't get me wrong he's probably the toughest of my kids, and yet the gentlest. The other day with the Halloween costumes he wanted a long blonde wig, I got it for him, and he said "look! my dream came true". He's ten, I think he is one of the bravest people I know, if I do say so myself. It scares the crap out of me because I am afraid of the rough road ahead. He wears pink shirts and shoe laces to class on free dress days, and has defied a principal telling him he couldn't wear that, and won the argument.  So far he's met peer pressure with a "so?" attitude and right now he's generally really well liked. With puberty coming up though, I am afraid of things getting a lot harder and I worry about him getting hurt. He is the sweetest person I know, he's all heart. I'm worried about what happens when that heart gets broken as happens to all of us from time to time. I know a lot of you still have a lot of questions for yourself, as I do for myself.. but if you can think back to being ten years old.. what would you think would have helped you be happy most? I know puberty will be coming soon.. looking back, what do you think can make a difference? What can I do to help him through the hard times? I hope you don't mind me asking, it's just that I lived my life by blending in, he lives his out loud. The opposite of me. It seems to me he has a more extrovert nature like some of you..
so.. do you have any suggestions for me?
Thanks Girls.


Take him to a therapist, don't influence him in *either* direction, the usual drill...
good luck!
I can see me
I can see you
Are you me?
Or am I you?
  •  

ALX

Thanks girls.
I am not trying to push him either way.. it just wouldn't surprise me and I'd like to spare him what heart ache I can if he is a she after all. As for me I have spent my entire life in the closet. I'm having trouble coming out very slowly partly because I am a parent. So yes, I'll be talking to him first and look for a therapist open to this. I think the blockers are a great idea if he would want them. I wish I'd had those lol
Thanks.
  •  

mm

Be supportive of your son helping him find out what he really wants. Blockers can sure help take the inpending hormones from interferring with his decision.  I sure wish I would have had blocker when I was a teenager.  With the parents support you should be able to find a dr to work with you getting blockers.
  •  

tekla

All of that seems to be reading volumes into playing with a wig, and having shoelaces color A instead of color B. 

And 'so' is a pretty disarming argument, as is 'whatever' when he learns that one.  Not caring takes the wind out of most sails pretty effectively.  Same too with 'living out loud' - it's secrets that breed shame and fear.  If a person is open and 'owns' whatever it is, they are pretty much invulnerable to criticism from others because there is no edge of secrets, or shame/guilt, or possible humiliation for others to pry up.  No chinks in the armor as it were.

It's easy and tempting for parents to read far too much into things kids say and do, the questions they ask and all of that.  Most 10 year olds are not making life binding choices.  Hell, most 20 year olds are still trying to avoid them.  My oldest kid spent 3 solid years being a pterodactyl, yet he never laid eggs and remained warm blooded.



Oh yeah, his principal is either a total idiot (having lost an argument to a 10 year old I'm kind of leaning that way myself), or a true genius who has solved all other problems at that school, and now had the time to devote to which color is appropriate for shoelaces.  One or the other.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

ALX

Thanks for all the tips I will definitely start by talking to him more, and taking him to a therapist and go from there. The blockers, I didn't know about them, and I wish I'd had those lol.

Tekla, for argument's sake let's assume I am not a sensationalist diva drama queen who just loves the attention of having a "special" child. Let's also assume it's more than a wig some shirts and a pair of shoe laces as it's not just me who has noticed he's not your average cup of Joe. Trust me, to me he is special enough just being my child. Kids in his class refer to him as "the gay boy". Do you have any suggestions that might actually make puberty any easier for him, whether he is gay bi lesbian trans straight girly tomboy butch cross dresser, combinations, non of these, whatever? The question has already been asked. and not by me. Even if he is straight and this is a "phase" people wonder and he is far from oblivious. You honestly think there is a chance in hell he won't be facing some of this no matter who he finds himself to be?

As for secrets being the only or main source of guilt, most people by far feel guilty about things they really shouldn't, often the persons themselves even know that, and still have trouble shaking it. Guilt causes the secrets, not the other way around. Outside pressure is a major source of embarrassment , shame and guilt, and when do you have more outside pressure than during puberty? So many people want to be young, how many would like to be thirteen,  fourteen again and stay that way?
I just want him to be as happy as possible. In makeup and sequin dress with matching handbag and pumps going to a spa, or a "man's man" making commercials for does equis because he is "just so manly" or whatever in between, off the grid and whatnot. I don't care as long as it is who he is happiest being. I just know some roads are easier than others. Don't fault me for hoping to smooth his if I can.



  •  

Ms. OBrien CVT

You are doing the best you can for him, being supportive and just being the best parent he can have.  Which you are already.

  
It does not take courage or bravery to change your gender.  It takes fear of living one more day in the wrong one.~me
  •  

tekla

Well I raised two boys in (very) small town rural Iowa.  It was about 45 miles away from the university where I taught and where my wife ran a nightclub.  I ran for election to the school board (and won) on a pro-evolution/anit-creationism standpoint, against one of the big local preachers, and that created some bad feelings.  (not the least of which came from me pointing out in the debate that Mr. Preacher didn't even have kids in that school, and I did).  And my wife (ex now) would standout in a roomful of standout people - bright red hair, outgoing to the max, very VERY Jewish (in rural Iowa) and she talked like a sailor, and frequently had her bands over to our house, had them spend the night, took them to breakfast in the cafe - well in the early 1990, in rural Iowa, a bunch of punk rockers, or people with facial piercings, or any of that Rock costume stuff it stood out, and people noticed, and lots of them didn't much cotton to it.  So they had some residual problems not of their doing, but because of who their parents were.

The oldest one was pretty much a dead split between the two of us.  Kind of goofy, quick, cleaver and smart & prone to be a wise-ass, not just disrespectful of authority but openly contemptuous of it, band kid, debate club, nerd.  His problems growing up were the same ones we had, and that made it easier to deal with, or at least sympathize/empathize with.  He hung with the nerds/band kids, got picked on a bit (but not too bad) and all the normal adolescent stuff.

And in that adolescent stuff, pretty much all kids go through it.  It's not limited to any specific set of traits.  And it's hard for most of them. 

Where you are going to have a problem, is like we had with the second kid.  He was nothing like us.  (Except he was very smart too).  But from the first day of kindergarten right though his graduation he wasn't just in the A List, he and his two closest friends were the A List.  Outgoing, extremely popular, loved by the teachers, good looking, good at sports, good at seemingly everything he tried.  And for the life of us my wife and me had NO idea how to deal with his problems because we had never faced problems like that in our life.  He came to me when he was in 4th grade asking what he should do about this girl who was putting love notes in his pockets.  In fourth grade?  Hell, I was in my 40s and was still waiting some some girl to put love notes in my pockets.  I had no idea how to deal with that, how to advise him on that.  When he came to me about how to deal with 3 different women wanting to take him to the prom I had to admit that I didn't even go to my prom I went to see the Grateful Dead at Winterland instead.  He just kind of shook his head and said, 'yeah, I should have guessed that' and went to see our friend Dr. Scott who taught at the university with me and treated him like the son he never had and for sure would have known how to deal with that, because in his 40s he was still having to deal with it (Handsome devil Scott was).

So the problems you faced as more of a wallflower, shy person, not standing out are very different from the problems of people who are really out there, who take ownership of their life, and are large and in change about themselves.  So my advice is find a Dr. Scott.  Find someone who has that kind of personality who can help clue you in.  If you are describing him and yourself in a true manner I'm afraid that your going to be in the same situation I was with the second kid, trying to deal with problems that you never faced yourself.

The most important thing I can say though is DON'T PROJECT.  Don't see him as a reflection of you.  Don't try to live your life out, or solve your problems growing up retroactively though him.*  He is a separate, unique and different person than you, & the time and space he is growing up in is very different from the one you had to move through.  When I was in HS being gay (which absolutely no one admitted to) was just about the worse thing in the world, and the worse thing you could have been called.  And that was in the Bay Area.  For my kids, even in rural Iowa, it seemed to not be as big a deal.  Keep an eye out, most places have anti-bully stuff in place these days, and be on guard for signs of it.

The reality is that lots of girls have all sorts of manish traits about them these days.  They are big time jocks, aggressive, highly competitive and all that, and those things alone don't make them trans.  Nor does it make a male trans just because he's slightly softer and more flamboyant.  You say that you aren't a sensationalist diva drama queen but perhaps your son is.  Perhaps that stuff isn't a reflection of 'trans' but the flowering of a very theatrical bent.  He's not expressing his fem side as much as he's performing, putting on a show and saying (in the best tradition of future theatre/performing types) "Look at me, look at me."  He wouldn't be the first.



* - most frequently seen in Dads forcing their kids to be the sports stars they weren't or mom's pushing their daughters to be the popular girl they weren't.  But I can see it happening in all sorts of other ways also.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Carlita

Wow, Tekla, that was a GREAT read ... and the basis for a half-decent coming-of-age movie, too!
  •  

aleon515

I sometimes read the gals board so I saw your post. I know of a ftm who has a young son who went thru what looked like he might be mtf. He definitely is not and identifies strongly as male. Now that I am semi-out as trans, my students in my class are much freer with gender stereotypes and roles than they were ever before.  The boys will choose pink stickers and so on. It's funny as nowhere did I ever tell the kids about my feelings re: gender, but I must just react much differently. So it may just be that since you are relaxed about it, your son is free to be himself which is not stereotyped in a gender straight-jacket.

At the same time, not sure but I think maybe trans is more common with trans parents.

I agree with a lot of the posts here re: things you can do. But just wanted to raise this as a possibility. BTW, have you asked what gender ze is? 


--Jay J
  •