Again with Oregon

Leigh · November 29, 2005, 11:39:56 PM

Roseburg

Should transgendered men be allowed to use women's restrooms?

beth · November 30, 2005, 12:51:05 AM

QuoteSure, they may have had a surgery signifying them as the opposite sex, but mentally they are still male.

Education is the key, progress is slowed or halted when faced with such ignorance.

beth

Cassandra · November 30, 2005, 08:44:12 PM

Quotebut mentally they are still male.

Talk about total ignorance! Where do people get off talking about other people as if they know what is in their minds? This just takes total gaul. Who died and made them an all seeing all knowing god? STILL MALE! That just makes me want to throttle this person and say you ignorant little slime ball. But, I probably wouldn't because I am too much of a lady, mentally

Cassie

beth · November 30, 2005, 10:32:24 PM

Cassie, you didn't know bout all the men who have their genitals removed just so they can go into the womens room and play with themselves

....... wait that isn't right.

beth

Cassandra · November 30, 2005, 10:58:24 PM

ROFLMAO

Dennis · November 30, 2005, 11:00:01 PM

QuoteShould transgendered men be allowed to use women's restrooms?

As a transgendered man who uses the men's room, no. I don't think so. If you transition to male, you use the men's room.

Dennis

Sheila · December 01, 2005, 09:10:35 PM

I don't know why they are complaining down in Roseburg. I go down there at least once every other month. I use the restroom all the time. I have even been told which one to use, of course it is the right one. I guess the restroom issue is a non-issue.
I really think they need to read some books, even the bible would be good. I don't think it talks about transgender people. I wonder if they had stalls in those days. I sure would like to see what the urinals looked like in Jesus's time. I wonder what they used to write on the bathroom walls? Gosh, toilet paper, no phone books or even a Sears and Robuck catalog. It must have been barbaric. Too much thinking for one night.
Sheila

Leigh · February 25, 2006, 08:37:08 AM

http://www.registerguard.com/news/2006/02/24/ed.col.hansen.0224.p1.php?section=opinion

Published: Friday, February 24, 2006

Gender identity is a term with which few people are familiar. It's an innocuous-sounding phrase with a rather shocking definition. The term is used by the Eugene Human Rights Commission to describe a person's view of his or her own sex, not simply one's sex at birth.

The commission says that, among other things, it includes transgenderists, transsexuals, cross-dressers, drag kings and queens, and even gender variants who may not identify with either sex.

Sheila · February 25, 2006, 01:05:07 PM

Oh, by the way Leigh, I quit trying to get Gender Identity into the Eugene Ordinance back in December. I don't know what is going on and I don't even care. I'm a school bus driver and I hold a position on the Lane County HRC. What Eugene wants to do, doesn't include me. They wanted all or nothing and that is what the got, NOTHING.
Sheila

Alexandra · February 26, 2006, 05:12:15 AM

IMO "couv" is one of the nicer things that can be said about that city in SW Washington. Unless asked, mum's the word.

Leigh · February 26, 2006, 03:07:23 PM

Quote from: Sheila on February 25, 2006, 01:05:07 PM
They wanted all or nothing and

I am almost afraid to ask what the ALL was, but I'm going to ask anyway although I have a pretty good idea.

Leigh

Posted at: February 26, 2006, 10:50:45 AM

http://www.registerguard.com/news/2006/02/26/b1.ed.col.transgender.0226.p1.php?section=opinion

For lesbian, transgender son brings pride and worry
By Jennifer Meyer
For The Register-Guard
Published: Sunday, February 26, 2006

With all the controversy over human rights these days, it's time for me to get off of the sidelines and come out of the closet. Not as a lesbian this time (I've done that for decades), but as the mother of a transgender son.
Toby was 20 when she first explained to my partner Kate and me that she was questioning her gender. She wasn't sure of much, except that she could no longer be the boy we had raised and would appreciate it if we would use female pronouns when referring to her. This request had me stammering every time I talked about my child in third person.

Alexandra · February 26, 2006, 05:12:46 PM

thanks for that newspaper article link!

michelle · March 17, 2006, 12:50:19 PM

I think that any one who uses a rest room specifically set a side for one gender only should behave like the gender assigned to that rest room and not embarrase any one in it. Restrooms with private stalls keep each individual privates private and there is no need to expose them in any other part of the restroom. Males and females who share restrooms, usually small one person restrooms such take care of their own personal hygene and be mindful of the personal hygene needs of the opposite sex.

Sheila · March 17, 2006, 01:21:41 PM

Michelle, I agree with you on the restroom issue. Now, how about a Gym lockerr room and the shower, that is open for the public. Do you think that a person, who doesn't have to ID themselves as TG, should be able to use whatever shower or locker room for their enjoyment. I guess I'm a little old fashion here or maybe a little prudish, but I don't.
The article in the Oregon Register Guard about Tobi Hill-Meyer. Hir Mom wrote the article and I read it out of the newspaper. The night before, I heard Tobi tell a group of people that Ze does not claim to be either. And that Ze does now know what Ze is. Ze prefers these pronouns (I hope I got them right).
Now that Tobi and hir group couldn't get the coed shower into place as there was some people against it. They wrote to Human Rights Commission and asked them not to go forward with Gender Identity into the ordinance. The City Council would have accepted the ordinance change, without the coed showers. PFLAG was behind this group.
Sheila

Teri Anne · March 17, 2006, 02:23:58 PM

There are some GENETIC women who, by bad luck at birth, have manish faces, lack of hair or manish bodies. If there is a law requiring documentation, how are some of these genetic women going to feel if someone at their club reports them to the club authorities and the club authorities then have to go up to that genetic woman and ask for "documentation" they are TS?

I agree with Steph on her point at the start of this thread. Like her, the first thing I thought of, regarding wearing of tags, was the yellow star and number that the Nazi's demanded. I can also see that, even wearing an ID, an M2F TS who acts manish and whips that thing around jovially would create an uncomfortable situation. As Terri-Gene said, it's sometimes better to choose other battles to fight rather than get the law entangled in bathroom/shower rights. Job descrimination can be far more treacherous to the transitioning TS than worrying about whether a health club allows M2F's in the female shower room.

Teri Anne

Sheila · March 17, 2006, 09:24:48 PM

I'm not saying for anyone to get tattooed or anything like that. If you want to use the facilities, unless you want coed showers, for privacy. What are you going to do. I guess you can just go up and ask. I really never cared one way or the other. I do know that this is what it came down to. We needed language to specify.
I agree, that employment and housing are far more important. That is what I suggested and the group that was against me said no they wanted all or nothing.
I guess I'm not getting my point across very well. I'm against ID too. For you to bring up Nazi Germany is very demeaning to me. I guess this is why I lost Gender Identity in Eugene, Oregon. Even PFLAG did not want the ordinance and they had the chance to change it. This is why I quit this last December. This is why last week they decided against changing the ordinance. I guess others will have to transition like I did, no ordinance. I look mannish and got IDed when I used the Gym. I even got followed in and I noticed someone watching me while I was dressing.
Sheila

Teri Anne · March 17, 2006, 10:09:45 PM

Sheila, I'm sure no one means anything "demeaning" - it was just an association (like those black ink blots that psychiatrists use in testing) that was conjured up in our minds. Any kind of ID, to many of us, seems kind of big government-ish. As you probably know, many liberal groups have fought national ID cards for just that reason. We were just discussing association things -- If someone said "money," I'd might say "movie star." I guess one could argue that I'm defaming movie stars as being overpaid but that would not be my intent.

I'm sorry that bad incident happened to you in the gym and I can now better understand why you wanted to help other TS's by this idea. I commend you in that effort and apologize if my post stirred up bad memories. In your posts, you have always shown to be a valiant warrior of the oppressed and I certainly thank you and commend your much-needed efforts.

Hugs, Teri Anne

Leigh · March 18, 2006, 12:00:01 AM

In a facility where nudity does happen and can be seen by others, showers for example, why should someone with the wrong body parts be admitted and have use of the place? The correct answer is they shouldn't. Not if they are going to be nude and seen by others.

This is one place where there does need to be some exclusion.

Leigh

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