GIC referrals in the UK

[AdamMLP]

This isn't something that's an immediate issue for me, but I realised there could be a bit of a problem if it's handled like other referrals are, as there isn't a GIC in my county.

When I was being seen by CAMHS (Child and Adolscent Mental Health Service) for depression I'd seen pretty much all of them, but when I got landed with their "most experienced" shrink and got absolutely no where except backwards they told me that they couldn't let me see anyone else because no one in the county was as experienced as he was and they wouldn't be able to get funding to let me see anyone from the neighboring area.  They actually ended up finding me an adult mental health practitioner that would agree to speak to me before just referring me over the border to their CAMHS.

Similarly we've got a hospital near the border between my county and the next, and because it's in partnership with both counties it causes chaos in some situations.  Because both county councils tell it to use different suppliers if a person from one county needs a bandage it has to be sourced from one specific supplier, but if they lived in the other county it would have to come from another supplier -- resulting in it taking me over an hour for someone to give me a sling after a (nine minute) op on my hand.

So basically the NHS is a mess when it comes to referring people to places outside of their county.  It might be different in the case of GICs because there are definitely not enough of them to go around, but it does worry me.  Has this caused a problem for any other guys out there?

And also, I've just read this in an article, "For adolescents under 18, the NHS process of treatment involves initial referral to Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services (CAMHS) and then, most likely, to a specialist gender-identity clinic."  Anyone know if that's true?  Because if it is then talking to anyone before I'm 18 is a definite 'no', there's no way I'm volunteering with going through that hell again, which is rubbish because I'd only just discovered that it is possible in some cases to get T under 18...

[Make_It_Good]

Hey,
Although I cant answer all your questions specifically, hopefully some of my input can be helpful. I understand the messing around youre going through. I too had to go through CAMHS and gosh did I get messed around!
I started seeing them at 15. They put me on medication for depression, and the dose ended up having to be doubled. They believed if they treated the depression, all the gender stuff would sort itself out. I, like you, got passed between people. I think I ended up seeing 5 different people. All the while Im asking to be referred to a gender clinic, as my depression was caused by all the "gender" stuff. But they simply arent experts in this area.
   I live in one county, but for some reason I was referred to the CAMHS of the next county. However, at the time I had found out that a guy was being seen at the CAMHS in MY county, and they had assessed him and let him start T. I had been at mine for 18months at this point. Mine said they were in no position to assess me for T. So I asked to be referred to the one that could get me on T.
They tried but it didnt work.
A year later, one of the people Im seeing randomly was looking through my files as she spoke to me, and found an old letter from the other CAMHS which said they were happy to take me on. It was dated a year prior, but everyone forgot to mention it, and it was too late as I was almost 18 and thats when they stop seeing me! Arr!
   Anyway, I saw them from 15 - 18. At age 16, they DID refer me to a GIC. And, with my persistence and pushing, I had no problem getting the referral. I ended up getting the referral for the GIC in my county (Im fortunate enough to have one in my area). But even if it was further, there didnt SEEM to be any problem of referring me to the appropriate place regardless of area.
The only problem for me was the GIC wouldnt see me till I was 18, and CAMHS wouldnt treat me, but wanted to continue to see me to monitor my depression.

Once I was at the GIC, things, though VERY frustratingly slow to begin with, once the ball starts rolling, it does start rolling. Its definitely worth sticking out what you can. Unfortunately theres loads of boxes to tick and hoops to jump through. The only cases Ive heard of guys in the UK getting medical treatment (i.e T or surgery) before 18, is if theyve gone private and paid for it. Which sucks.

[AdamMLP]

Thanks, I'm guessing that means that you've got to see CAMHS before you can get referred to a GIC then?  There's no way I'm going back to them, my heart literally stopped for a second when I found out they have something to do with referals.  The only shrink that will touch me now from there enjoys making me angry and upset to the point where my school nurse who came with me to meetings was ringing me up at home to make sure I was okay every time I left and went home, and refused to do anything useful about my depression even though I'd been seeing him about it for years and got taken to hospital.  It was just by a fluke that I dropped out of the system and managed to go three months before they realised I wasn't seeing anyone, by which time I just turned around and said that I'd done better without his sadism, thank you very much.

There's no way I can talk to him about being trans, my GP mentioned it to him once and although I spoke to my GP fairly openly about it -- I was holding back on how much I knew for some reason, I think I thought that they might have thought I was brainwashed by reading about it or something -- I refused point blank to talk to the shrink about it.  He twisted everything I said, apparently wearing a suit to my schools Christmas dinner was an expression of my sexuality or something ridiculous like that, and was really not someone I was comfortable talking to about anything personal at all.

Seems like I'm definitely going to have to wait until I'm eighteen, which I was really hoping wouldn't happen.  I was hoping that I could get the ball rolling now and it would just be a case of waiting for my birthday before I could get the T.

It's rubbish what happened to you, but you got there in the end, and it seems like you had a little better time with the NHS than me, although they lost your referral at least you got to see some of your files, I have no idea what's on my record, which is quite worrying because so much of what he assumed was wrong and it was impossible to correct him.  He's probably taken something completely the wrong way and it'll come back to haunt me in later life...

[Natkat]

Well we don't have GIC where I live either, and it's also alot of trouble.

alot of people do find alternatives and survive without having been dignosed,

And yes its a mess, and demand;
* that you know the right contacts and people
* that you got money
* and your know the laws pretty well both for your own country and the other countrys.

it do work for alot of people who is in hopeless situations or places even when its hard. as I say you have to be sneaky and one step before the other folks.
I must admit I dont know much about Uk, and your neighbour countrys, so maybe my advice is useless but thats what I seen alot of people doing and thats what I myself had been doing.

for homones as well, you say that theres no rule forbidding people less than 18 to get homones,
if that so you might could get it somewhere ells, check it up 100%
for myself I waited to I was 18 to get homones because I was told I couldnt get them before, it was a lie, there where doctors who could give me homones but they where not talked about because of the taboo for transgenders.

[Tay]

As far as I am aware, you must undergo a mental health evaluation before you can be referred to a GIC. So if you ask your GP to refer you, they will first contact the local mental health team.

Since you've already been seen by a mental health team, this may in fact work in your favour.

I don't know exactly which age bracket you fit in but I'm pretty sure my GIC are starting to accept referrals for ages 16-18. It might be a good idea to try to find someone on here who is quite local to you and ask which clinic they go to. Or find out where people in your area are referred, then call that GIC and ask what happens if someone under 18 is referred to them.

[Padma]

Knowing the NHS, they'll likely want to redo a psychiatric assessment in the light of GD, before referring you to a GIC. But otherwise, what Tay said.

Whereabouts are you in the country, if you're okay about saying?

[Make_It_Good]

I never got to actually see my files unfortunately (I would like to have seen how they "understood" my situation and feelings to be).
    I didnt know any other way of getting referred other than through CAMHS since all my time was spent fighting to get T through them, by the time I was ready to give up, it was time to be seen at the GIC, hence the hope started from the beginning again.
   I dont know where you are, but the GIC Im at, though they wouldnt see me till I was 18, they explained to me that they now see people as young as 16 (apparently so they dont have to go through the long wait I did. That didnt help me at all! :p).
  So, maybe you can get referred now if the closest GIC to you will accept younger people.

As Tay said, since you have already been seen by a mental health team, maybe this will go in your favour. Dont get your hopes too high, but dont stop fighting.
I would suggest going to see your GP again. Explain the problems youve had with CAMHS, how there is no progress with being seen for the gender issues and that you need to be referred to a gender clinic as you need to be seen by a specialist. Maybe your GP can look into it more and see any other ways that they could make this happen....?

[AdamMLP]

My GP's a great guy but he seems to have absolutely no power over what CAMHS want to do, if CAMHS want to see me then CAMHS will, and there's practically no stopping them.  I never had any real talk with CAMHS about my gender, by the point that I came out to my GP I had lost complete faith in them and just wanted to be left alone -- they were just making me worse and had no intentions of doing anything useful -- and the battle to get rid of him became more important than talking about gender, which was too personal to trust him with and would undoubtably make me have to see him for longer.  I had no idea at the time that he could lead me to a GIC referral either.  So I'd probably have to start right at the beginning with CAMHS if I went back to my GP.

I'm from Suffolk, not sure if anyone can help me there.  The nearest GIC is in Norwich, Norfolk, but I've just discovered "The Psychosexual & Couples Therapy Clinic" in Suffolk which claims to "provide specialist psychosexual therapy for adults (individuals and couples, males and females) from the age of 18 upwards... Referrals are also accepted from GPs, hospital doctors or CMHT's for patients experiencing concerns with gender identity; transgender, transsexualism and transvestism and those patients wishing to progress onto gender reassignment (sex change)."  I've never heard of them at all before, and wonder whether they'd have the same knowledge and abilities as a GIC as they're still NHS funded.

[Padma]

I don't know about the Suffolk clinic, but they sound worth contacting to find out more, and to see what kind of referral they'd need. I heard good things about the Norwich clinic - I never went through them myself, because I moved from there to Devon just as I began transitioning, but I met some people who were under their care who rated them as a clinic.

[Tay]

Padma - are/were you a patient at The Laurels?

[Padma]

Am, right now, as we speak . Can't praise them highly enough - apart from the crappy appointments system they inherited that keeps losing people off it .

[Tay]

I am a Laurels boy. Have been for just over four years now. I had an awful time at first but they've moved on a lot in the last couple of years. I see Lynda and Dr Dean, although I'm about to be discharged.

[Padma]

Hi, neighbour! I've been there for the last year. I see Steve - which is lucky, because Lynda has this "I like to see my trans women clients show up in a dress or skirt at least once during their RLE" thing going on - she laughed at the look of horror on my face when she told me this .

It's a shame they're only just now thinking about having support group meetings with men and women mixing together, from time to time - I get on far better with trans men than with the women, since I'm such a tomboy, and almost all the women are überfemme and seem incapable of making sense of me at all.

[malinkibear]

How far off being eighteen are you? Unfortunately, if you're under eighteen, you're going to have to go the 'kid' route. But if you're not too far off your eighteenth birthday, it's worth talking to your P now and getting an appointment booked for just after. You do need to have an assessment done, which will form your referral, and then another assessment (the exact same questions!) as part of your treatment with the GIC - there's no avoiding them or getting on the way with a diagnosis and treatment without them, unfortunately

[AdamMLP]

How far off being eighteen are you? Unfortunately, if you're under eighteen, you're going to have to go the 'kid' route. But if you're not too far off your eighteenth birthday, it's worth talking to your P now and getting an appointment booked for just after. You do need to have an assessment done, which will form your referral, and then another assessment (the exact same questions!) as part of your treatment with the GIC - there's no avoiding them or getting on the way with a diagnosis and treatment without them, unfortunately

Couple of years unfortunately.  It's a joke.  The very people who are supposed to be there to help people make them feel worse and that just leaves them sitting at home terrified of ending back where they were before, but worse because they know that they can't get help even if they try.  And there's no way of getting around them, and they have a bizarre power over our rights to other help.  It scares me how much power these people have.

I guess I'll just have to keep my eye on the websites and pray that he leaves soon.

[malinkibear]

Couple of years unfortunately.  It's a joke.  The very people who are supposed to be there to help people make them feel worse and that just leaves them sitting at home terrified of ending back where they were before, but worse because they know that they can't get help even if they try.  And there's no way of getting around them, and they have a bizarre power over our rights to other help.  It scares me how much power these people have.

I guess I'll just have to keep my eye on the websites and pray that he leaves soon.

I know how you feel. I have depression and have been having to tell my GP that it's improving because, and I quote, "if I don't get better I won't be allowed to have treatment". Nevermind if I'm having a rough patch! Doctors can be really useless, just keep hanging in there, and remember that there are things you can do now. Name changing, working out for a more masculine figure, etc all look good when do eventually get your appointment with someone who isn't a twunt.

[AdamMLP]

I know how you feel. I have depression and have been having to tell my GP that it's improving because, and I quote, "if I don't get better I won't be allowed to have treatment". Nevermind if I'm having a rough patch! Doctors can be really useless, just keep hanging in there, and remember that there are things you can do now. Name changing, working out for a more masculine figure, etc all look good when do eventually get your appointment with someone who isn't a twunt.

Just be careful with what you say, I said everything and anything to try and get out of sessions for depression because it only made it worse, and to be honest, talking about my parents' horses isn't going to help me, or anyone to help me, and I had more important things to be doing than wasting my time.  Then later on it started to give me trouble because they were making assumptions based on what was in my notes -- as well as a lot of other bull such as "suit to Christmas dinner = statement of lesbian sexuality", and "not happy being female = issues with sexuality".  It might help in the long run but make sure it's not going to come back and bite you!

31st October I'm giving up smoking and really trying to sort out the physical side of my life as much as possible.  It'll be a year exactly from when I made the decision to be hospitalised for my own safety and decided that I really needed to get my life together and get help.  The help didn't ever happen but the happiness did.  I've spent a year focusing on getting my head straight and now I need to get the body to match.

[aleon515]

Hi, neighbour! I've been there for the last year. I see Steve - which is lucky, because Lynda has this "I like to see my trans women clients show up in a dress or skirt at least once during their RLE" thing going on - she laughed at the look of horror on my face when she told me this .

It's a shame they're only just now thinking about having support group meetings with men and women mixing together, from time to time - I get on far better with trans men than with the women, since I'm such a tomboy, and almost all the women are überfemme and seem incapable of making sense of me at all.

Too bad that the commute would be a bit much, Padma, but we have a ftm group, a mtf group, and a mixed group where just about everyone comes. I think it works out really well. I enjoy how nice and small (and less formal) the ftm group is, but I like listening and often get really good feedback from the mtf people.
I'd say we don't have too many tomboys, but some are not uberfemme.

--Jay J