Girlfriend in need of some moral support.

[MissSeptember]

A warm hello to all the wonderful members here.

I've been hiding in the corner for a while, reading lots of wonderful posts and helpful advice.  But, now I finally think it's time that I reach out and ask for some support of my own.

I'm a huge proponent of talking things out and getting support from people, and I find myself in a situation where, IRL, I don't really have anyone to turn to.  So I hope you will let me share my story here and maybe ask for some advice back from time to time

My heart finds itself in love with a smart, funny, beautiful (although she won't believe me) princess, and, given this forum, you already know the other part of the story.

We have a good and open relationship.  We talk, although she gets frustrated with me from time to time.  I worry and suffer a bit of depression myself.

When we met, she had just started her transition (still a little bit in between) but, from day one, I was presented with this vibrant female energy and someone who made me feel amazing, mentally and emotionally.  I had a crush on her from the very beginning and as our relationship got more intimate on the emotional level, I fell in love with her and she fell in love with me.

I was with her before she started her HRT and have been with her through some of the more painful realities of transitioning (physically like laser hair removal and emotional set backs).

I've struggled with feeling like she only loves me because I'm here and support her right now - but, that when she finally feels whole, she won't want me any more.  I would be lying if I said that feeling was completely gone but, we have pretty great communication and I know it's not true.

The trouble is, we used to be really passionate together.  It was a level of intimacy and affection that I'm not sure I've ever known before but always wanted.  Of course there were physical problems - and let me make it clear that I don't want ANY part of her physical male attributes, I hate them and wish they were gone almost as much as she does.  I know they're there, but I push the thought to the back of my mind and honestly, frequently forget she's not finished her physical transition.

And perhaps that's the root of the trouble.  She's become less and less comfortable with her body - no, it's beyond that, she hates her physical being.  And as a result, the passion we shared is gone (feels like it's been ripped away from me).  I barely get to kiss her more than three times before she's uncomfortable.  And the few times I did get to share her bed, well that's gone too.  I hope that surgery and changes will bring her back to me but, that's a long time away.

I suppose I'm smart enough to know it's not "me" but, I can't help feeling ugly and undesirable because there's nothing I can do make her feel beautiful.  I want to bring her pleasure and joy so much that her pulling away breaks my heart on so many levels.

Part of me is being completely selfish, I know that.  She knows how I feel and I've been kind when I say it ... I'm NOT pressuring her for ANYTHING - please believe me, I respect her and love her but, I'm hurting too.  I. will. wait.  But it's hard.  That's why I'm writing here - I don't know how to handle this, I can't handle this on my own any more and I'm afraid I'll never be able to make her feel loved the way she should. 

Watching her suffer emotionally is really the hardest part and I don't have anyone IRL to share that with because I won't "out" her to any of my friends that I would normally turn to. 

I want to take it all away for her and, I used to be able to do that and now it's not enough and I don't know what to do.

I'm trying so hard to stay strong for her.  I wonder if anyone else has felt like I do or could offer some advice/support?  It would mean the world to know I'm not alone.

...Mi§ September...

PS...Thanks for reading, thanks for having a forum that I can post this on ... putting these feelings "out there" has helped me a lot, even if I get nothing back.  And maybe some day I can help someone like me in return.

[Sphaira]

Part of me is being completely selfish, I know that.  She knows how I feel and I've been kind when I say it ... I'm NOT pressuring her for ANYTHING - please believe me, I respect her and love her but, I'm hurting too.  I. will. wait.  But it's hard.  That's why I'm writing here - I don't know how to handle this, I can't handle this on my own any more and I'm afraid I'll never be able to make her feel loved the way she should. 

Watching her suffer emotionally is really the hardest part and I don't have anyone IRL to share that with because I won't "out" her to any of my friends that I would normally turn to. 

I want to take it all away for her and, I used to be able to do that and now it's not enough and I don't know what to do.

I'm trying so hard to stay strong for her.  I wonder if anyone else has felt like I do or could offer some advice/support?  It would mean the world to know I'm not alone.

You are not alone! You and your girlfriend seem very honest with each other.

Although your girlfriend is uncomfortable with her body, that does not mean that she cannot celebrate yours. Your needs are just as important as hers.

"Outing" my SO has been the most difficult decision to make, and I still haven't done anything despite having had her blessing. You need to have an outlet, someone somewhere, where you can speak honestly and freely about how you feel, even if it's knee-jerk irrational emotions.

This part is the hardest. The part that she has to do alone, and you simply have to stand by and hold on to the rocks, weathering the storm.  You need to stay strong for her, but also for yourself.

[A]

You could, just like a more normal couple, seek couple counselling. It might not help, but it might help, too.

I've sent you something in a PM. I hope it helps.

[Jamie D]

MissSeptember, you SO does not know how lucky she is.

[Kevin Peña]

I am seriously jealous right now.

Well, if I ever wanted to feel special, I would like my SO to have a candlelight dinner set up with my favorite foods for when I got home with some soft music in the background. (Look in the Album "Satin Doll" by Michael Maxwell/Steve Wingfield).

Here's a sample.


Then I would like for him to give me a sensual massage and whatever else I wanted for the night. Foot massages, cuddling, etc.

Something like that ought to make her feel good.

[Brooke777]

Your SO is truly a lucky girl!

[blueconstancy]

*sympathy*

You are not alone, without question, but I'm not sure I have much advice to offer beyond that (others' suggestions of counseling and asking if focusing on you for a bit are excellent). I was fortunate that my wife almost immediately had other erogenous zones, so it was eminently possible to just focus elsewhere... and we'd been together long enough that I could read her signals without an awkward conversation first. It might be time for another discussion where you ask what it is she wants - or thinks she could live with experimenting? - and what she thinks she could do for YOU that would make you feel desired and loved. Because while her needs are important, so are yours.

[MissSeptember]

Thank-you all for the notes - I wish I could send you all a direct message by forum status won't allow PMs yet.

to *A* ... I have the download (not able to PM you back to due forum status) ... thank-you for thinking of me, I will read it shortly.

--

I want to acknowledge that when I wrote this I was, as Sphaira noted, somewhat in the midst of several "knee-jerk irrational emotions"... things have become calmer (not necessarily less stressful - possibly more painful) since.

My princess and I have talked.  Several times.  And cried together a few times now.  Trying to find boundaries.  It hurts her that this is happening and she just can't let herself feel intimate (and that right there breaks my heart).  SRS is important to her, and it's scheduled for next year now, and she believes that will be the true start of our relationship.  From now until then this feels like it's going to be so hard.  There are so many other points of stress in both our lives (career changes, life changes) that it's all so very hard - I don't know how to cope.

She's asking me to hold on for a very long time.  In hopes that some day the relationship will be the way we both hope.  That terrifies me.  I have my own issues of feeling unloved ... and now guilt that I shouldn't be allowed to suffer because she's going though something so much harder.

I think what has to be made clear (and perhaps this will help others) is that it's not the lack of *sex* that's hard ... it's the loss of * intimacy* ... it's trying to ensure that I/we don't fall into the belief that having these desires are wrong.

I have talked to my therapist about it ... and all the advice is the same as what's been said here.  She and I have to talk and try to find out what can bring us back together to find part of that intimacy again (as many of you have said).  Our relationship is strained to find balance and connection with each other and our time as it is.  Feeling like I'm "trapped" or "lonely" even when I'm beside her is making me sick.

She is a true and real woman - to me she always has been.  Not being able to make her feel that, not being able to share that with her is killing me //crying//.

Thank-you to everyone that posted!!

...Mi§ September...

[MeghanAndrews]

Hello Miss September,
You are both in such a tough situation right now. I think part of the problem is that you did share intimacy at one point and you know what it is so you feel like it was taken from you. That would be really difficult to deal with. I don't know that any amount of therapy, talking, empathy, etc. will be able to bring that back any time and here's why. I don't think it has anything at all to do with you, I think it's your SO and transition and being in a different headspace that is making it difficult for her. You met her when you knew her as a "guy" even though she had feminine energy and embodied what you later found out was gender issues. You remember her as a "guy." She was probably able to please you as a "guy" too. Now that she's working her way through transition, her mind, at least part of it, might be compartmentalizing part of the relationship you both have/had. By had, I mean the "guy" part of the memories. For her, your desire for and willingness to show intimacy might be triggering feelings that remind her of where she was pre-transition: potential guilt over how her body reacted to that intimacy, fear over having sex maybe, your desire of physicalness with her, things like that. This really has nothing to do with you, this would be all her own baggage in the relationship, something she brings to the table being trans. So what do you do about it? What do you do about your needs and fears?

I think the most important thing to do is to remain strong and independent yourself. I think it's awesome that you are so supportive, many would have left a long time ago. However, I don't think that support and acceptance should lull you into complacency and accepting an unhappy life. I think you could continue to talk and work through your issues, maybe try to get into couples counseling with an experienced sexologist who has experience with gender issues (if you live close to a big city). I think you both might be able to find common ground where you are able to show intimacy at a level and in a way that's she's comfortable. Maybe she has bad memories of where intimacy led before and thinks that might happen again. I don't mean sex, but even like arousal or feeling like a protector, etc. That can be a really scary feeling for someone transitioning, particularly as they try to move into their new gender. It sounds like you are giving her so much room right now, but I do think it's important for you to find a common ground where you are feeling like your needs are being met and where she's feeling the same way with both of you compromising a bit.

I do hope you can work through this together, but please make sure you don't lose yourself or your happiness or give up on your life goals either. Transition can be a really selfish thing, but definition, for the transitioner and it's super important for SO's to stay strong and ensure they don't become a doormat or just playing the role of supportive spouse. I hope that makes sense and I wish you the best Meghan

[blueconstancy]

It's a pretty common insistence that partners "aren't allowed" to have needs or feelings... put that bluntly, of course, it sounds ridiculous, but it's nevertheless often framed with that implication, because a trans person's needs are so much stronger and more important. Which they often are, but that's not the same thing as expecting a partner to simply suppress everything they need and want for months and years until transition is over. Emotions and relationships and intimacy aren't binary; you can negotiate to get at least some of your needs met, even if it means she has to give up a small percentage of comfort.

In concrete terms, I requested that my wife not change her voice at home, because I wanted desperately to cling to *one* element of the external presentation she used to have, and she wasn't very dysphoric about her voice. Maybe there are some elements of intimacy your girlfriend is least uncomfortable with (cuddling? kissing? spooning? "intimacy" and "sex" both include a nearly infinite list of individual components) that you can use for security until SHE becomes more secure in herself and her body.

Also, I'd like to just second 100% what Meghan said. (I wish I'd talked to someone like her back when I was going through it!)

[A]

How about trying some very simple things? Watching a movie while cuddling, for example.

I'm not there to spy the two of you, but I suspect the issue here is that whenever there's a more intimate act, such as rather insisting kisses, she starts to feel the birth of an erection, and that can be very painful depending on the person and situation.

For now, at least, you could try the kind of intimacy that two really close sisters would have. Closeness, but nothing remotely sexual, including too many kisses. That could be much more fulfilling for you than the constant frustration of failure and at the same time allow her to enjoy whatever she can with you.

In short, perhaps, try what eight-year-old girlfriends would try. Who knows, you might even like the purity of childish love acts.

[Kevin Peña]

I know that his may not be a popular opinion, but I think that breaking things off with your SO would be advisable, at least until she works out her issues. Being friends would probably be a lot better than being in a relationship that is causing both of you so much emotional turmoil. I know that it can be hard to let go. I have been in love with one of my best friends for a long time now and I know that he most likely won't love me, even after my transition. However, that doesn't mean that I can't be my own individual. You can always get back into the relationship once she works things out, but I don't think it's best for you to hold on to something that isn't working.

[MissSeptember]

I might actually get to write a post without crying

Thanks to you all.

When I first wrote the post - my princess had gotten into a state where she wouldn't / couldn't cuddle or anything so simple.  We've gotten to a point where we have the cuddling, and holding - and we've spent nights together again (just sleeping).  It's desire is still difficult to deal with.  We've talked about boundaries and maybe now it's just a matter of time.

I have done everything I wanted to make her feel special and loved ... but sometimes I've had to tell her that all those things that make her feel special and pretty and loved ... I want them too.  It took me a long time to say that to her since I never wanted her to feel like she had to be in a "male" position ... and she's made it clear that I've never made her feel that way.

To Meghan's post (which is a GREAT post btw) ... I want to be honest, at first I rejected everything you wrote and was kind of upset.  But I went back and gave it another read.  There are a few things that don't fit for us... I didn't know her or her intimacy in any male capacity.  I was married for several years in a heterosexual relationship so I do know what that male comfort and energy feels like.  There are times I miss it but it's not what I wanted, or ever felt from her.  So, no, I've never known her as male in that way but that doesn't negate what you had to say and has made me think on how her mind has been working.

I am too quick to forget that even to herself, she has not always been HERself ... sometimes I wonder if that makes me a bad person.  We talked once and she said how she fights to feel "real" ...  my heart aches for her and anyone that feels that way.  Heaven knows I've felt things like that in my life, I wish it wasn't a struggle for anyone.

To Diana's "unpopular" opinion ... you are probably right.  And I've talked to her about it.  But it's too hard to shut off.  A friend of mine told me to "be careful with her...you might lose your best friend" ... and I'm afraid she's right.  I think just being friends is too hard.  Honestly, there's a very fine line there - I don't want to feel like I'm hanging on because I would be 'abandoning' her otherwise.  I want to be sure that holding on is because of love.

I want to hold on.  I want her to feel loved and adored (I love buying her flowers), I just want to feel loved in return ... that's why THIS post was so important to me.   Reading all the different replies has helped so much.   

Thank-you from the bottom of my heart.  I wish you all love and joy in your lives.  When I'm feeling stronger I hope I can give back to the community as well.

...Mi§ September...

[MeghanAndrews]

I want to be honest, at first I rejected everything you wrote and was kind of upset.  But I went back and gave it another read.

Trust me, MissSeptember, I thought quite a bit before I sent it and I did modify it a bit. I was married, twice, to two different girls. I know it's not easy being in either situation, the SO or the person with gender issues. My heart really goes out to SO's quite a bit but it's because I am still close with my exes and I know how hard it was to deal with my transition. I still carry a bit of guilt for ever having married in the first place. We would have made better friends, but no regrets.

It sounds like you are both working through the ups and downs of the relationship and, to me, that's the most important thing

[Kevin Peña]

I think just being friends is too hard.  Honestly, there's a very fine line there - I don't want to feel like I'm hanging on because I would be 'abandoning' her otherwise.  I want to be sure that holding on is because of love.

I want to hold on.  I want her to feel loved and adored (I love buying her flowers), I just want to feel loved in return ...

Well, you've got yourself a very lucky lady there. If you want to feel loved too, make certain she knows it. It's only fair. Also, may I just reiterate how amazing you are.

[AnOwlForTara]

In my own relationship, I'm finding that, while dealing with the way my fiance feels about herself and her idea of how the world will view her is difficult, there's also this great other side of the coin where I get to be a part of her process of growing and discovering herself.

All of these difficult and scary moments do happen where there is a lack of intimacy or an uncomfortable change, but things for us have always come back around to something mutually comfortable and satisfying. I hope that you and your girlfriend are able to reestablish an equilibrium, but you should know that you can't put yourself through torture just to avoid guilt at the end. If there is real improvement (and it sounds like maybe there has been), then it seems like the relationship is worth working for, especially if you can both remember to explain all the awkward and embarrassing emotions that are happening, and which your partner cannot see. My partner is particularly bad at recognizing other's emotions, and so I always have to explain what I am feeling and why (although, to be fair, she does learn to recognize certain emotions as she encounters them more often). Maybe you two would benefit from being explicit, detailed, and specific, at least for a while. You are both going through a lot of changes, and sometimes it's hard to see what the other person is thinking and feeling without talking about it.

Whatever happens, I hope you both learn and grow from the experience.

-Owl-

[pretty]

To the OP - sorry hon but I have to be a little harsh for a bit 

I feel like there is a lot in your posts that you're saying without actually saying. Let me get it out of the way that I do not think you're wrong for anything. But I think a part of you came here to be honest with yourself, you just don't know how to be.  You came here seeking support because there is something that feels beyond your control... you want somebody to be honest with yourself for you.  I totally understand that, it hurts to let out feelings that could jeopardize something you came to associate with so many good and important parts of your life.  So you bury those feelings.  You deny them.  Even to yourself.

You said you met the OP before she thought of herself as a she.  I think this has a lot to do with how you are feeling right now.  A relationship is about give and take... it has to be that way for both parties or unspoken feelings will creep their way in and build up and push you apart.  Nobody wants that to happen to them, because there are so many good things they can remember in a relationship, and it is only natural to want it all to be roses and sunshine, even to the point that you start pretending it still is when it's not anymore, building up those unspoken feelings.

You should be able to tell these things to your partner... that should be the FIRST place you want to voice your concerns.  But you don't want to hurt your partner because she's struggling too.  Unfortunately, that is not healthy and it is never going to last.  A relationship is a part of yourself... it is a special world of its own.  It's so intimate and personal that you can't live a relationship and a friendship at the same time.  Maybe you are trying to hard to just be a good friend.  You don't want her to hate you.  You don't want to ruin what you had together.  But you are not her cheering squad.  You need affection and attention from her just as much as she needs affection and attention from you.

Were you attracted to women before you met your girlfriend?  Did you prefer men?  And when you say that you don't prefer her body as it is now... is that YOU speaking and would you have said that before you met her, or is that you who wants first  to make her happy speaking?

The reason I ask is your language... you seem to be incredibly focused on making it clear that you think of and accept her as a woman.  Like, your princess.  In the past, did you imagine your ideal partner as a princess/your princess?  Did you feel okay with being princess #2?  Being a princess comes out of a fantasy, but that is a fantasy that always includes a prince.  It's a role that is made to be complimented by a prince.  Who is going to be the prince, regardless of gender?  Or does your fantasy not include a prince role?  I mean, was that the relationship dynamic you really wanted to begin with?  And if it is that is great! 
But if not, I think you really need to ask yourself some difficult questions.  Allow yourself to really be honest with yourself--separate the feelings that are caused by just wanting her to be happy and the things you actually want for yourself to be fulfilled in your relationship. 

I am not trying to lead you in any direction, but I have read too many cases of this kind of thing... it never ends well if you lie to yourself and persecute yourself with some fantasy of how things could or should be. You need to do what is really gonna be best for you  you can only do that once you decide to step out of that emotional place that wants everything to be perfect and feels guilty if they're not, and put yourself in a position to communicate your needs and have them met by your partner.  If you can't have those needs met, for whatever reason, then it is not really a mutual relationship anymore.

Good luck and I hope you both can find your happiness