Questions regarding temporary T usage

[insideontheoutside]

No matter how you identify ... trans*/genderfluid/androgynous/etc/etc aren't we all just trying to be more comfortable in our own skin? Perhaps more comfortable in our appearance and therefore more confident?

I could have written the exact same thing as the OP, in fact I took T originally for the exact same reasons. I wanted to see if I could get some subtle changes and be more comfortable with my body. Under a doctor's supervision I don't see a problem with someone wanting to take T to appear either more andro or more male (my doctor was right on top of it monitoring me, it wasn't working out well and I was feeling crappy and I stopped).

What? It's totally all different because most of you want to be on it for life? Is it exclusive only to "males" now? 'Cause that's kind of the vibe I'm getting from some of the responses. Whereas if someone comes on here lamenting how they're male and trapped in an awful, wretched female body and they can't "pass" they're given a pat on the back, welcomed into the fold and told, "When you can get on T man it will be better!" Yeah, there's a lot of "think really hard about transition" type of talk too, which I don't have any problem with that and I think that's something that someone who's considering transition should be exposed to. But it sounds like OP doesn't actually want to fully transition? They didn't say specifically, but are hormones like T now only reserved for those who want to fully transition?

I don't think any of us should be making a judgement call on the OP. As far as I can see they asked 3 simple questions. They didn't ask for all our opinions on whether they should do it or not or whether they're really "male" or not or given a lecture on how you can't "pick and choose" side-effects or how if you "can't handle" all the changes you shouldn't take it. That "can't handle it" thing is a particular hot button for me. It's like when someone says, "You can't handle the truth". It's a weighted statement implying that you're better and they're lessor.

And now people are saying things like it's "unhealthy to mess around with hormones like that"? Seriously? What do you think taking T long term is doing to your body? You're synthetically altering your whole body system to gain a more male physical appearance. You are changing your natural hormones to elevate one of them to unnatural levels, and doing it for years. But you know what, a lot of people make that personal choice anyway. It's kinda like how someone can make a personal choice not to take it for years.

Additionally there's people on these boards that identify as androgyne that I've seen mention taking hormones. It's not just an exclusive treatment to FTM/MTF individuals. And people do actually decide to stop taking hormones for whatever personal reasons ... even after only a short time. It's not unheard of. What changes happen (good or bad) and how fast while on T is completely variable and unique to the individual as multiple people have pointed out. And no, you can't "pick and choose" what you get, but if someone wants to try to take it temporarily and not for the rest of their lives then that's their personal choice.

Also ... no one's offended by the repeated reference to "clit"? I'm shocked, cause you know usually someone would have already been here to reprimand anyone who's not using the appropriate, non-trigger-causing terms ... The OP used "bits", not clit.

[aleon515]

Androgynes have taken T, I think actually there are a few on the androgyne forum. You might ask there. OTOH, if you want specific changes and don't definitely want others, there is no way to pick and choose. You have to decide that you are ok with any changes. You won't know which ones these are. Usually what androgynes want with T (or HRT) is mental.

You *may* get changes pretty fast depending on your age and dosage.


--Jay J

[wheat thins are delicious]

What? It's totally all different because most of you want to be on it for life? Is it exclusive only to "males" now? 'Cause that's kind of the vibe I'm getting from some of the responses. Whereas if someone comes on here lamenting how they're male and trapped in an awful, wretched female body and they can't "pass" they're given a pat on the back, welcomed into the fold and told, "When you can get on T man it will be better!" Yeah, there's a lot of "think really hard about transition" type of talk too, which I don't have any problem with that and I think that's something that someone who's considering transition should be exposed to. But it sounds like OP doesn't actually want to fully transition? They didn't say specifically, but are hormones like T now only reserved for those who want to fully transition?

I don't think any of us should be making a judgement call on the OP. As far as I can see they asked 3 simple questions. They didn't ask for all our opinions on whether they should do it or not or whether they're really "male" or not or given a lecture on how you can't "pick and choose" side-effects or how if you "can't handle" all the changes you shouldn't take it. That "can't handle it" thing is a particular hot button for me. It's like when someone says, "You can't handle the truth". It's a weighted statement implying that you're better and they're lessor.

If a person doesn't want to transition they shouldn't be playing around with hormones that are used mainly for that purpose.  They aren't beauty products.  You can't choose or control the effects you get.  Those are truths.  If you go into taking a body altering hormone thinking you can somehow sway the changes you get and you get a change/changes you don't want you may end up hating your body more than you did in the beginning, all because you wanted to be more androgynous or something, when you can change things like your hair, clothing style, and mannerisms to get a similar effect.

[Adam (birkin)]

Since I fell somewhat into the whole "you can't pick and choose" camp, I should clarify my answer a little more. I do know a number of non-binary people who have taken T, some who have stopped and some who are still on it as far as I am aware after a number of years, and have experienced a significant increase in happiness as a result.

I mostly just gave the response I did because I was surprised at the order in which hormones affected my body. I did a LOT of research before I began T because if I was going to take it I was (and personally, still am) going to take it forever - and you honestly don't hear a lot from people who experience changes in a drastically different order, like I have. I just wanted to put my own experience out there as something to consider.

Although, I'm sure that you know you have my full support in whatever you choose, Cain. I consider you a friend and I've seen what you have gone through with your dysphoria over the past...year? Maybe even two.

[insideontheoutside]

If a person doesn't want to transition they shouldn't be playing around with hormones that are used mainly for that purpose.  They aren't beauty products.  You can't choose or control the effects you get.  Those are truths.  If you go into taking a body altering hormone thinking you can somehow sway the changes you get and you get a change/changes you don't want you may end up hating your body more than you did in the beginning, all because you wanted to be more androgynous or something, when you can change things like your hair, clothing style, and mannerisms to get a similar effect.

I disagree. Of course hormones aren't used mainly for the purpose of transitioning genders. HRT has a wide range of uses, up to and including being prescribed for varying degrees of gender dysphoria. And yes there's side effects, no matter if you've got a problem with your gender or not.

And I've been trying for years now to get that same "effect" with just clothes and hair and it ain't happening. People call me ma'am all over the place. Yet I have zero desire to "transition". I can not say that if someone told me, oh yeah you could go back and do some hormones without the ill effects as before, I would not take them up on it ... and then consequently stop taking them when enough changes happened that I at least got a 60/40 response from people thinking I was male or androgynous enough that they'd error on the side of male rather than female. That would make me happy.

I just don't think that judgement call is yours or mine or anyone else's but the OPs to decide whether they want to try to take hormones, for however long, with whatever risks are associated with them. Especially since they didn't specifically ask for an opinion, just information. And the attitude that only people wanting to transition should be taking them and everyone else who may want to take them just to change their body to fit them more is just "playing" with them is exclusionary and flippant.

[wheat thins are delicious]

Yes, it is their call but if they take hormones without being willing to accept any and all changes that could occur then they are in for a world of unnecessary problems they will be causing themselves.

If you are not taking hormones for transition purposes but simply to look "androgynous" then you shouldn't be taking them and your doctor should have their medical license taken away. I consider that to be playing with hormones, they aren't a jacket you can try on for size.

[insideontheoutside]

If you are not taking hormones for transition purposes but simply to look "androgynous" then you shouldn't be taking them and your doctor should have their medical license taken away. I consider that to be playing with hormones, they aren't a jacket you can try on for size.

Your opinion of course but I don't see it that way and I still think it's inconsiderate of what other people may be going through and making light of the situation all in one swoop. You're lumping everyone who isn't fully transitioning into a category that they're just playing around as if it's some department store changing room.

If looking androgynous fixes dysphoria for someone how is that any different at all from you wanting to look and be male? If it's not possible to do without the use of some hormones, for a limited time, how is that different? Your dysphoria is what led you on the path to taking T. It's not fashion, it's not beauty, it's trying to be more comfortable in your own skin. You're just taking it x-amount of steps further because in your particular case just looking a certain way isn't enough. You're doing the whole 9 yards to fix your particular problem. Some people may not have to. But according to you, those people shouldn't even have that option. It should be denied to them because only the real transsexuals who are willing to transition all the way should be allowed to have HRT.

[Jayr]

Yes, it is their call but if they take hormones without being willing to accept any and all changes that could occur then they are in for a world of unnecessary problems they will be causing themselves.

If you are not taking hormones for transition purposes but simply to look "androgynous" then you shouldn't be taking them and your doctor should have their medical license taken away. I consider that to be playing with hormones, they aren't a jacket you can try on for size.

Dude did you steal my brain?? v_v
Everything you are writing is stuff I would have written.

Needless to say, I agree with Wheat 100%.

[aleon515]

I agree with insideontheoutside here. But I am not sure if I read this OP post entirely correctly. If it were one effect or two, I'd say no way. OTOH, I agree re: that low dose T (or HRT) can help some androgyne/non-binary people to feel more comfortable in their own skin from what I have read. I actually know of a butch who is taking it. But unless your expectations are *very* realistic going in then you are going to be too happy, I think. There are a couple youtube people to take a look at, esp earlier vlogs. Both of them have since transitioned to male, but Meiko Elias and YaninBaninan identify as non-binary. Yanin was on low dose for quite a number of years and now at 4 years completely presents as male. You can see from Yanin that low dose is still T. It has taken a LOT longer but he still is male.So in a way there is no "low dose" only slower dose. Therapy might help if you could find a therapist who was comfortable working with non-binary people. If you know what it is doing and why, I think you will be in a better place to make decision.

I have some sympathy here is I really identify as non-binary. I want it in "male skin" but I feel for me that the gender binary doesn't apply. Dysphoria is dysphoria, and non-binary people do have it. I don't think it is easy being non-binary, but you still should go into what ever you are going into with open eyes.

--Jay J

[wheat thins are delicious]

Taking T short term isn't likely to make one androgynous.  It will however gain someone a lot of changes they don't really want, like a changing voice and thicker body hair. Those were my first changes.  My looks hardly changed for months, but my voice and body hair changed very quickly.  Same for most other guys I've talked to.  So in the long run you are likely to look and sound like a man, not androgynous.

[Jayr]

May I add;

Once your voice has dropped, it has dropped permanently.
It'll never go back to your original tone.

You could do voice training like some girls do,
but I highly doubt you'd ever sound the exact same as you did before.
Also voice training is hard and you need to think about it 24/7.

Think wisely before taking t.
The voice is usually one of the first changes.

''Once you go black, you never go back.''
Same for your voice dropping if you were to take t.

[insideontheoutside]

I was on T for about 3 months and guess what didn't happen? I still sound like a 15 year old boy. Which is how I've sounded since I was well, 15. Everyone is different. I'd love to have a permanent voice drop. That would make me a hell of a lot more androgynous male. It didn't happen though so I'm stuck, but if someone else could have the opportunity to effect some change on their body to make them more comfortable with themselves, I wouldn't deny them that. I don't personally approve of plastic surgery (and surgery is just as life altering and permanent and risky as hormones) but if that's what someone needs to feel better about themselves and they go through the hoops with a doctor to do it, then it's not my place to tell them, "no you can't ... you're not _____ enough to do that."

[Arch]

If a person doesn't want to transition they shouldn't be playing around with hormones that are used mainly for that purpose. 

Transition means different things to different people. For some folks, transition involves taking T for a short time and stopping. Transition can mean transition to a more androgynous sound or appearance (such as acquiring facial hair or just getting a haircut or wearing different clothes). If he does his research and gets his ducks in a row and knows what he is getting himself into, then shouldn't he transition in the way he is most comfortable with?

[AdamMLP]

I can envisage the biggest problem actually being with the application method. I don't know exact time scales, but nebido stays in your body for a very long time, other injectables for still quite a while I would of thought, and gel for a short time. If you're on injectables - and you might not get a choice - then you could potentially be happy with the changes, stop T and by the time it's out of your system have changed too much.

But I think helping someone make an informed choice considering all the eventualities is what's needed, not our own version of gate keeping or thinking androgyne are just making a fashion statement - just the general vibe I'm getting off a few people.

[Nero]

Taking T short term isn't likely to make one androgynous.  It will however gain someone a lot of changes they don't really want, like a changing voice and thicker body hair. Those were my first changes.  My looks hardly changed for months, but my voice and body hair changed very quickly.  Same for most other guys I've talked to.  So in the long run you are likely to look and sound like a man, not androgynous.

Exactly. I think this is the point people are trying to make - not that anyone not identifying as male shouldn't take T. When I first came out, I wasn't sure I wanted the full beard, deep voice and hairy gut, chest, butt crack, etc. and everything else (even though I id-ed as male). I took T because I needed to pass as male regardless. Luckily, I was pleased with those changes when they happened. If I hadn't been, I would have been stuck.

Sure, individual cases may not get one result or another, but you can't bank on that. You also can't go by anyone else's results unless you've got their genes (and maybe not even then). If someone doesn't want to look and sound like a man, T is probably not the way to go.

Not that this is the OP's motivation (I would not presume to guess), but there are some general misconceptions floating around about T.
Some guys admire the look of some naturally androgynous male models, rock stars, etc. and think it can be duplicated. Or that how they look as a female has any bearing on how androgynous they'll look after T. Or that taking a low dose or stopping after a short period will control the result.

One only has to browse the mtf forums to see how unpleasant these permanent changes can be when unwanted. This is why you really have to be pepared to live with any result you get, regardless if you're the most binary ftm or the most androgynous.

[unknown]

Let me present cody : http://www.youtube.com/user/CodyOriole

They are genderqueer and have been on T for a vary long time. They are much more comfortable with T so I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to take it. Nor do I see any reason why op shouldn't take it as long as they know that they can't pick and choose. Cody was on a vary low dose of T and still is.

I  would use gel and/or a low dose on T if I was op.

[Adam (birkin)]

I  would use gel and/or a low dose on T if I was op.

Gel is the same as injectables in terms of changes, providing the blood levels are the same.

[unknown]

Gel is the same as injectables in terms of changes, providing the blood levels are the same.

I said gel because if op gets something they don't like they can just stop. With injections you take them weekly or bi weekly so you can't just stop if you don't like it.

[androgynoid]

Wow, I wasn't expecting all these replies! I'd reply to each of you individually if I had the time, but I'm on a bit of a schedule today.

For the people who gave me YouTube recommendations, thanks. I'll be sure to check those out.

They do mention wanting to be more androgynous but T in the short term will not do that.  Instead they should work on changing their hair, clothing style, and mannerisms.

Like insideontheoutside, I've tried this. I've had top surgery, I dress in mostly men's clothing, I pack sometimes, I have a men's haircut. I still get read consistently as female; I can count on one finger the number of times I've gotten sir'd without the person correcting themself.

If looking androgynous fixes dysphoria for someone how is that any different at all from you wanting to look and be male? If it's not possible to do without the use of some hormones, for a limited time, how is that different? Your dysphoria is what led you on the path to taking T. It's not fashion, it's not beauty, it's trying to be more comfortable in your own skin. You're just taking it x-amount of steps further because in your particular case just looking a certain way isn't enough. You're doing the whole 9 yards to fix your particular problem. Some people may not have to. But according to you, those people shouldn't even have that option. It should be denied to them because only the real transsexuals who are willing to transition all the way should be allowed to have HRT.

+1 to you, sir. Thank you. I may not be making what most consider a 'full' transition, but that does not make it any less valid. There are reasons I'm considering T that go far above and beyond the concerns I've posted here, but the underlying cause is dysphoria. And if you'd deny me treatment for my gender dysphoria just because it's not the same as yours, then wow.

Also ... no one's offended by the repeated reference to "clit"? I'm shocked, cause you know usually someone would have already been here to reprimand anyone who's not using the appropriate, non-trigger-causing terms ... The OP used "bits", not clit.

I'm not offended by the term 'clit,' but I really appreciate you pointing this out. It would seem that since I'm not 'fully' FtM, my bits are female. I too am rather surprised by this.

If you are not taking hormones for transition purposes but simply to look "androgynous" then you shouldn't be taking them and your doctor should have their medical license taken away. I consider that to be playing with hormones, they aren't a jacket you can try on for size.

Who said I wasn't 'transitioning' to a more androgynous state? This is as much a part of my physical transition as anything else I've done.

Although, I'm sure that you know you have my full support in whatever you choose, Cain. I consider you a friend and I've seen what you have gone through with your dysphoria over the past...year? Maybe even two.

Year and a half, I think.  I understand what you're saying. I know that T doesn't work the same on everyone and the effects can't really be predicted. You weren't trying to discourage me the way some others are.

I'll probably stop by and say more later, but I'll leave you with this: I'm honestly kind of surprised at the responses I've gotten. I was fully expecting people to try to convince me not to take T, but to say that a doctor who prescribes it to me should have their license taken away? To suggest that I'm not really transitioning, but using T as a beauty product? To disregard the possibility that I might be triggered by gendered language because I'm not FtM? This all seems a little extreme.

Thanks for respecting my pronouns at least, guys.

[unknown]

People just don't understand ftn's (can I call you that).  I myself felt like an ftn some time ago. Now I feel more like a male that don't really care about gender if that makes sense. That or an agender ftm that feels more like a guy.