LGBS in a T month

[geoangelcandybutch]

You're right, people who don't like how you spell things should read other posts or threads, or set their account to ignore you. Anyone who needs assistance with ignoring threads or individual members should contact a Staff member. Hugs, Devlyn

Thank you for saying this.

I find it better to ignore something that bothers someone, than to argue because then no hard feelings come of it.

[suzifrommd]

I continue to benefit from the partnership between the gay/lesbian and trans communities in my area. The Gay and Lesbian Community center in Baltimore has its own building where my biweekly Trans support group meets. It's unlikely that a "Trans community center" could muster the support for its own building.

I've benefited from Hearts and Ears, a resource for Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender populations supported by our state. It has a full-time and several part time staff members. It's unlikely the state would award a similar sized grant only for the benefit of the Trans community alone.

I sponsor the Gay/Straight alliance at the school where I work. It's also a safe place for a couple of Transgender students who come there. If it were just the Trans/Cis alliance, it's unlikely it would exist at all.

I'm hoping the discussion of whether Trans people should sever our ties with the Gay/Lesbian community remains a purely academic exercise. There would have been far less support for me available had it been a reality.

[dalebert]

And I've had issues with cisgender LGB folks. Tons of issues. Just because someone is LGB doesn't mean they can't be trans*phobic. And actually, I know tons of trans*phobic LGB folks.

Which is another reason I think they should be separated.

Absolutely! We just talked about some of those hypocritical bigots on the show while discussing the Trans Day of Remembrance. Hypocritical bigots are even worse than the regular ones because they should know better. They've experienced bigotry themselves and still don't learn.

The irony here is that the cisgendered LGB folks most likely to agree with you about separating the T are the transphobic ones and the ones who want to keep it there are the trans-friendly ones.

Do you feel that separating it would help more of those LGB folks to stop being transphobic or would it enable them? Do you feel keeping it as it is would mean fostering alliances and a faster path to understanding and equality or is it better to be isolationist? Does that figure into your opinion at all? If not, shouldn't it?

[dalebert]

I also don't think that trans* "allies" should be given so much credit. You want a cookie for being a decent humyn being? Naw, don't think so.

I like cookies and I don't mind a little pat on the back now and then. I don't think anyone minds those things when they do a good job, but that's not why I do it. I do it because I want allies helping to spread the message that we're all individuals entitled to the same rights and respect. We are stronger together, but more importantly we are practicing what we preach and being consistent and avoiding hypocrisy when we behave in an inclusive manner instead of a separatist and isolationist manner. That makes the liberty message resonate so much more clearly.

Did you know that trans* allies get a whole WEEK, whereas trans* day of rememberence (spelling) is only... Well ONE DAY of the whole year?

Did you know that November is the trans month of remembrance? This cisgendered gay man did and I talked about it on my LGBT show, a show in which we probably give the T more than 25% coverage. And we don't do it to get a cookie or a pat on the back. We do it because that's where the heat is right now. There's a lot more trans-related bigotry crap going on right now than there is LGB crap. There's just not as much work to do on LGB issues. It feels like a downhill path at this point. And my gut is telling me that we will get past the hump on trans issues much faster because of all that progress that has been made which we can learn from the LGB activism and which the people we're trying to reach and educate have also learned from.

On a simpler level, the relationship seems obvious to me. We're all facing bigotry based on rigid and tyrannical expectations of people based on biological/assigned gender. I have gotten crap all my life for being attracted to men. Why? Because I'm biologically/assigned male and with that comes rigid expectations of who I am allowed to love. That's one facet of a person's personality tied to gender expectations. Gender expression is another. We should all be free to live as our true selves.

[geoangelcandybutch]

Absolutely! We just talked about some of those hypocritical bigots on the show while discussing the Trans Day of Remembrance. Hypocritical bigots are even worse than the regular ones because they should know better. They've experienced bigotry themselves and still don't learn.

The irony here is that the cisgendered LGB folks most likely to agree with you about separating the T are the transphobic ones and the ones who want to keep it there are the trans-friendly ones.

Do you feel that separating it would help more of those LGB folks to stop being transphobic or would it enable them? Do you feel keeping it as it is would mean fostering alliances and a faster path to understanding and equality or is it better to be isolationist? Does that figure into your opinion at all? If not, shouldn't it?

The reasoning for me wanting it to be separate (and I'm a trans* persyn by the way), is because of the fact that the majority of focus is on the LGB. Mainly gay marriage. I don't care about gay marriage right now (not saying I don't want it to happen, it should, but that's not my priority right now).

And there are TONS of cisgender LGB folks that speak over trans* folks. I've had a cisgender ex-girlfriend try to tell me she's not trans*phobic because she dated me. People can date trans* folks and still be trans*phobic. There are cisgender folks (and a lot happen to be LGB) that will EXPECT cookies and "pats on the back" for being friends with a trans* persyn and being "nice" to trans* folks and all that. And then when they DON'T get cookies and "pats on the back" they get furious and say rude things like "but I'm a GOOD trans* ally!" etc etc. I see it over and over and over again.

There are trans* womyn (mainly TWOC [trans* womyn of colour]) being murdered and the majority of cisgender LGB folks don't care about that. "Oh let's worry more about gay marriage and stuff like that instead". This is why I have a hard time being friends with cisgender folks. I don't get along with straight cisgender folks, and I have an even harder time getting along with LGB cisgender folks because they expect more because "we're all apart of the same community".

Just because we're all apart of the LGBT thing, doesn't mean our experiences are the same. White gay men are going to have different experiences from gay men of colour. White lesbians are going to have different experiences than lesbian womyn of colour. White trans* folks (this includes me because I'm white) are going to have different experiences than trans* people of colour will. And DFAB (designated female at birth) trans* folks are going to have different experiences than DMAB (designated male at birth) trans* folks will.

White gay men are going to have it the easiest. It's true. That may be hard for folks to hear, but it is true. And white folks in general (regardless of LGB or T status) are going to have it better in general.

Look at the majority of trans* womyn being killed. Most of them are TWOC (trans* womyn of colour).

I hear more about trans* folks being murdered, than I do white gay men right now.

I like cookies and I don't mind a little pat on the back now and then.

I'm sorry, but I'm not here to give you cookies. Nor a pat on the back. Regardless of how good an "ally" you may be. I'm not trying to be rude here, and if I'm coming across as such, I'm sorry. But that isn't going to change how I feel. And I have a hard time with gay cisgender men too. And I'll explain why: I've been turned down by so many gay cisgender men because of the fact that I don't have a penis. And there are cisgender men that'll date a pre-op trans* womon just because she hasn't had the surgery yet and still has a penis.

There are tons of cisgender folks out there, especially cisgender LGB folks, that only care about getting that pat on the back or cookies. You may say you're not one of them, but I'm not going to easily trust a persyn just because they say something. I don't trust easily.

[tekla]

People get turned down for lots of reasons.  Sometimes said, or sometimes unsaid.  I'd never say "hey honey I don't date women who don't have real jobs..."... but I don't, and I've had to find ways to dance around that.  Just because someone rejects you, even based on genitals/or lack there of, does not equal a phobia, which has to be irrationally based.  It's more likely they just know what they like and want, and that's not irrational.

And gay marriage (which, in the big, bad end is simply changing the marriage contract from 'husband' and 'wife' to 'party a' and 'party b') provides a benefit to lots of trans persons.  And with the end of that battle in sight, it will be interesting to see what direction the community takes, if it takes one at all.

[dalebert]

And there are TONS of cisgender LGB folks that speak over trans* folks.

Yeah, I've already agreed with you on that and I'm trying to look at it from the point of view of that being a problem that needs to be solved and what is the best way to solve it. You've keep making sweeping statements about groups of people categorized by a particular trait and you're projecting a lot onto them by the category they fall into. You've mentioned cisgender gay men several times in a very negative light, and it's fine to point out there's a big problem in general but...

There are tons of cisgender folks out there, especially cisgender LGB folks, that only care about getting that pat on the back or cookies. You may say you're not one of them, but I'm not going to easily trust a persyn just because they say something. I don't trust easily.

...but people deserve a basic benefit of the doubt to begin with. Okay, sure--don't loan me any money or go out on any dates with me or whatever until you've gotten to know me better (not asking, obviously. Just making a point). That's common sense. But if you don't extend that basic respect to another person that you would like them to extend to you, then you're being prejudiced which is overtly hypocritical. You're making a lot of sweeping statements about people based on a category they belong to like cisgender gay male and you seem to start off with a different level of trust of a total stranger based on those categories before you've even gotten to know them.

I don't need pats on the back from anyone as I said. That's not why I do what I do. Obviously just being decent doesn't call for it. I agree. When I mentioned it, I was talking about when someone actually makes an honest effort to do positive activism for equality. And that's what I'm trying to address. If you want LGB folks to work for T rights and vice-versa, it's more effective IMHO to not work to separate us and file and categorize us.  It's particularly hypocritical and unhelpful to your cause to tell people "I don't care about your issues but you should care about my issues". It won't change my attitude, fortunately, because I'm not going to project the impression you're making on me onto other trans people.

It's even mistaken to look at them as completely separate issues because they are really issues that affect everyone. I have trans friends I care about and it's a big issue to ME if they get hurt. Trans-related violence is based on perceptions and there are plenty of LGB folks who are gender-bendy and might be subject to such violence if someone perceives them as trans even if they don't self-identify as such. It's a big issue for trans folk if they can't get married to someone they love because the government won't change their gender marker or is putting them through the ringer and taking a long time to do it and the government won't respect their choice of who they want to marry due to their government-assigned gender. For these reasons, what is commonly referred to as "gay marriage" but is more accurately referred to as "marriage equality" will positively impact a LOT of trans people, including the completely straight ones.

[Snowpaw]

There is a lot of negativity here even by my normal standards... A lot of projecting and a lot of unneeded ire directed at our allies. In the few groups I went to that were glbt I have to say I felt nothing but acceptance there even if I was one of 3 trans in my particular day going there.... something something about looking a gift horse....

/sad snowpaw :<

EDIT

almost let my real name slip :O

[geoangelcandybutch]

I think this is going to be my last post on this.

I've been through a LOT. I've dealt with a LOT. None of you know ANY of my stories.

I may judge a group of people right off the bat, but that's to PROTECT myself. I'm going to assume everyone is the same, until proven otherwise. Because if I just trust every new persyn I meet, I'm going to be the one hurt in the long run. And that's not something I can afford. I may only be 21 years old, but I've been through a lot.

I can't sit here and trust someone just because they say they're a good persyn. I can't sit here and trust someone just because they're new to me. Sorry, but I can't. I've trusted the wrong people in the past, and got hurt because of it.

And me assuming a certain group of people is all the same, is to protect myself. And there's nothing wrong with that.

And I said gay marriage isn't my PRIORITY. I didn't say I didn't want it to happen. I didn't say it shouldn't happen. I said it shouldn't be the priority and it's not MINE.

Like I said, this is probably going to be the last post of mine on this topic.

My views are still the same.

[noeleena]

Hi,

When one looks at the dieversity we have in the world is it any wonder people have problems with each other,

If this is about every one being the same i think we need to look out side of our selfs, im not a dresser or trans. & really have nothing in common with the gay people wether they are women or men.

What i have in common is we are human we eat many foods the same some like sports as i do just maybe not yours because i live here in New Zealand, we drive cars that are similer  so you get the idear,

i dont have much to do with any trans or dresser's or gay people & iv no need to, as a group im out numbered any way, in fact the gay people unless some are my friends & thats very few, most dont wont any thing to do with us who are different.  so theres no point. not where i live, im the only one whos intersexed, pop 3,500  that is a member of our community, or our groups our membership is about 1000 people with in those groups, & most know me any way,

And as far as it goes im just a woman & most of my friends are women.

As to the L G B T we dont have one or in our two Towns pop of 16,000 & 38,000 i know of 4 dresser's, heard of two trans, & thats it,

The other point ill make is im  involved with in our community here, so really theres no point of a group made up of gays  trans or dresser's & as for my self i would not have much in common ,as a normal woman. unless they beccame a member of our groups & i dont see that happening here.

...noeleena...

[tekla]

I've been through a LOT. I've dealt with a LOT. None of you know ANY of my stories.

Nor, apparently, do you know ours.  It could be that your stories are not the norm.