Passing tips and male mannerisms

[Kevin Peña]

Ok, I think you may just be paranoid. MTFs don't necessarily have voice issues as bad as MTFs because guys today have all sorts of voices, from the gruff man-voice to the femme voice some guys talk with, whereas if a lady were to speak with a deep voice like a man's, she'd be immediately recognized as trans. I guess it's a benefit of having less awareness of FTM transsexuals? 

I can't describe the femme guy voice I brought up except with saying that it's the stereotypical gay guy voice, which is nonetheless accepted as a male's voice, albeit a weird one. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

[Stephe]

Yes guys nod to each other but NEVER make eye contact or smile as a -response- to another guy. As a MTF it took me a long time to unlearn the "nod reflex". Open doors for women never hurts either Guys stand very differently than women, most have pretty bad posture. Also guys like "space" around them so don't ever stand or sit close to other people unless there is no other option, note guys usually try to take up as much space as possible.  And of course NEVER touch another guy for any reason.

[Kevin Peña]

Geez, Stephe, I must be a real girl, because I violated every one of those rules! 

But seriously, never smile? No eye contact? Never touch?

What if someone tells you a joke? What else are you supposed to look at? What if he needs CPR?

Ah, I am so delightfully annoying. 

[tekla]

What?  No BroHug, no terrorist fist bumps, no proper handshake?  And everyone I know smiles all the time, perhaps we just like our lives.

[Stephe]

Geez, Stephe, I must be a real girl, because I violated every one of those rules! 

But seriously, never smile? No eye contact? Never touch?

What if someone tells you a joke? What else are you supposed to look at? What if he needs CPR?

Ah, I am so delightfully annoying. 

Of course guys smile and laugh etc *sigh* 

I'm talking about walking down the street in public around strangers. Guys don't -look- each other in the eye and smile at each other like women do. They glance and nod. Of course personal friends etc don't follow these "rules" but for example a guy wouldn't stand close to another guy in an elevator unless there wasn't enough room. Guys as a rule don't do things like touch another guy on the arm in conversation. Or sit extra close next to a guy they are talking to. Very few guys hug other guys as a casual hello unless they are very close friends and even then not too often.

The op asked for examples of male mannerisms, I hope they have enough sense to know not to be so extreme in their use...

[unknown]

I'm not going to act 'male'. That destroys the whole point of transsion. I do not have any 'girly' ways of acting I need to cover up with 'male' acting anyway.

[AscendantDevon]

I'm not going to act 'male'. That destroys the whole point of transsion. I do not have any 'girly' ways of acting I need to cover up with 'male' acting anyway.

YES YES YES. I completely agree. I read all the 'tips' I can find, they're so subjective. I feel like my mannerisms as a male, albeit not a bio-male, should speak for themselves... If only my gumption and mannerisms could make up for my hips...

[Stephe]

When I was little, people like my classmates, extended family and an array of church ladies didn't appreciate how masculine my mannerisms were.  In order to make my life just a tad easier, I learned a few simple little things to do to make the annoyed looks and corrections go away.  Now I can't begin to remember what they all were, and I've been doing them long enough I don't necessarily notice them, so I find topics like this useful in re-locating and eradicating as many as I can.  I'm not changing myself to suit a standard of masculinity.  I'm de-programming myself back to what actually does feel right and congruent.  For me, habitual is not the same as natural.

The whole point of transition is to make yourself more comfortable.  If adapting your mannerisms makes you more comfortable, then in my opinion it doesn't contradict the purpose of transition at all.

+1 for this. Most of this stuff is learned behavior from watching others, it's social conditioning. It's like speech patterns, people aren't born with male or female speech patterns, they learn them.  Given some of these are different from region to region, I don't think you are born with them either.

Like you said, the whole point of transition is to be comfortable and happy. I have gotten a LOT of very useful tips from other women that have helped me fit better into my new gender. Clearly I don't fit as the 'stereotypical dainty women' when I show up for a neighborhood cleaning day with a big chainsaw I'm not so obsessed that I pretend I can't do things I can still do etc just because it isn't something you normally see a woman doing. But I also like to be seen as a woman and so this learned behavior, for some people, has to be reprogrammed when you change from one gender to the other. It surely doesn't "destroy transition" if someone does this.

[aleon515]

I know about the "guy nod" as I have been greeted this way a few times since presenting more male. The stranger male will nod and you nod back. The funny thing about it to me is that I think that it might start at a bit of a distance, so that btw the time that the guy has realized I am not exactly what he thinks I am he has already committed the guy nod. I can almost hear him thinking, "I can't take away the damn guy nod!!"

I have also purposefully given the guy nod out.


It is mild bits of genderf***ing that I can do given as I don't pass.

BTW, I go to a ftm support group, maybe it is that the body language isn't quite "guy" but I feel like I am in a group of gay guys, even though most of the group is not really gay.


--Jay J

[Cindy]

Oh to bring this into perspective 

A friend is pregnant and she is close to term, meeting her people (woman) ask the usual female questions which I won't bore you with. I was present when someone asked her partner how he was looking forward to the birth etc. His reply "I just want to know when I can have sex again" and he wasn't joking.

[Simon]

I think one of the worst things someone can do when trying to pass is over thinking the whole thing. People will pick up on the fact that you are trying to "act" and they will start to question why that is if you're making an over the top effort to change your natural behaviors.

As much as it sucks to admit there are just things in transition that take hormones and time to accomplish when it comes to fully passing.

Just be true to yourself and keep working at your personal goals. Everything else will fall into place.

[FTMDiaries]

I've just remembered one other thing that I do: it's something I've done since I was 10 years old so I don't even think about it any more, but here goes.

I have the most extreme type of female hips: gynaecoid hips. That means I have wide, flaring hip bones that produce a sharp contrast between the width of my hips and the natural position of my feet. As a result, my natural gait should involve a lot of typical feminine hip-sway.

I noticed this when my hips started to flare at age 10, and I decided to negate the sway by simply walking with my feet further apart. So if I walk with my feet just under shoulder-width apart it cancels out the sway and my walk looks much more masculine.

[AscendantDevon]

So if I walk with my feet just under shoulder-width apart it cancels out the sway and my walk looks much more masculine.

Woah woah, this actually works? I absolutely have to try this.

[FTMDiaries]

Woah woah, this actually works? I absolutely have to try this.

Yup, it totally does. It completely changes your gait.

[Stephe]

As much as it sucks to admit there are just things in transition that take hormones and time to accomplish when it comes to fully passing.

Interesting, I was living full time and had no real problems 'passing' for 3 years with -no- HRT. I didn't realize HRT changed mannerisms, how we walk, body language and other learned behavior!

[Stephe]

I've just remembered one other thing that I do: it's something I've done since I was 10 years old so I don't even think about it any more, but here goes.

I have the most extreme type of female hips: gynaecoid hips. That means I have wide, flaring hip bones that produce a sharp contrast between the width of my hips and the natural position of my feet. As a result, my natural gait should involve a lot of typical feminine hip-sway.

I noticed this when my hips started to flare at age 10, and I decided to negate the sway by simply walking with my feet further apart. So if I walk with my feet just under shoulder-width apart it cancels out the sway and my walk looks much more masculine.

Yes this should work, for a male to walk more like a female, one of the key things is to keep your feet closer together so the opposite would probably be true. The other thing is guys "lead" with their foot (swing foot out more), women lead with their upper thigh (push upper thigh out more). It changes your gait which one you lead with.

[dalebert]

Clearly I don't fit as the 'stereotypical dainty women' when I show up for a neighborhood cleaning day with a big chainsaw

Yeah! Can you come to my house cleaning tomorrow? There will be pizza and beer!

[Kevin Peña]

Okay, I always thought that gender-based mannerisms are silly. I agree that you should do what makes you more comfortable, but that doesn't have to mean following "male" mannerisms; disregard the gender of what you're doing and just do what you like.

As proof that gender-based roles are irrelevant, take this: One of my friends saw that his GIRLfriend was listening to Crush 40's music, playing video games, and talking about football like a stereotypical MALE, and he said (and I quote), "I have never loved you more than I have right now." 

I'm sure the same could apply to guys.

[aleon515]

I think that T is a bit more important in transition for ftms than estrogen is for mtfs.
Without T, after a certain age, most ftms will never pass regardless of how much knowledge of body language, etc. I've heard of mtfs passing without it.

--Jay J

[Stephe]

I have a lesbian friend who is in their 50's, has never been on T and other than her voice, she easily could pass for a man. She isn't trans and really isn't trying to look like a guy but she does. And IMHO most of it is how she carries herself, her mannerisms etc.

I do believe saying things like "Without T, after a certain age, most ftms will never pass" is simply incorrect and I hear the exact same thing on the MTF side.  People think "I can take this pill/shot and transform without doing anything else", it's wishful thinking for most people. Yes HRT helps but that isn't the end of it.