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Just told my guy I'm Post Op TG

Started by Icephoenyx, November 25, 2012, 09:09:52 PM

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spring0721

Icephoenyx, you already have a ton of great advice but I thought I would add to it.  As a cisgirl I have quite a bit of dating experience, and I can tell you men will treat you the way you allow them to treat you.  Some men are huge JERKS, you need to set a standard and if a guy falls below it then YOU need to be the one to RUN away!  I agree that if you see any potential for a relationship then it may be better to broach the subject that you're trans only because any relationship needs to be built with a solid foundation of trust.  If a guy can't see you for the beautiful woman that you are then move on.

I hate that you feel like you need to take what you can get & that this man has set CONDITIONS for you to meet in order for you to date him!! This is ridiculous! Number one, I'm sure he couldn't 'tell' before you told him or he would have brought it up.  Secondly, his conditions are quite frankly, crap.  He should be PROUD to have you on his arm at his company xmas party or anywhere else.  I don't know who he thinks he is telling you that you need to work out more or lose a little bit of a tummy.  Is he perfect? Maybe you should tell him that in order for you to date him he has to develop six pack abs. 

In all seriousness, if you allow him to set the tone for your relationship with conditions then he will always do so.  Men are a dime a dozen, there will always be another one around the corner! He was attracted enough to you to date you before he found out, I think this is HIS failing within himself.  No woman is perfect, whether they were born that way or not we all have flaws.  I don't really have any belly fat, but I can tell you I have a flat butt, and that's not really anything you can change. Sorry that you have had to put up with this man, and you do DESERVE better.  Good luck
People are people, treat everyone with the same respect and courtesy that you want to receive.
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O_O

Hi Spring0721, That is some great advice however belly fat or a flat butt doesn't change your gender.

The difficulties that women who transition face go much farther than appearance issues.  When you are transitioned a rumor or some information about your history can destroy your relationships, career, friendships, etc.

I remember a female friend heard the rumor that I had transitioned, she proceeded to explain to me how to wipe my butt after going to the bathroom, front to back.  As if I would naturally be too ignorant to figure out how to do that on my own because... implication being, "I am really just a man playing a woman."

I have had SRS, FFS, BAS and I have been on hormones since 2000.  I was in a bar where I worked and a guy was telling me, "I can tell you are a man by your shoulders, hands, height, pelvis, feet...  Then he tells me he wouldn't ever have sex with me because he isn't gay and then directs me to his friend saying, "My friend here is bissexual, he will give it to you.  (Keep in mind I was just working, I wasn't soliciting sex.)

Group think tells us that we have to convince Society that men can become women but we contradict ourselves, saying we were never men to begin with (typically).  So in social interactions where we feel risk is involved we frequently decide to play it "safe" and confess that we are men who became women.  But Society doesn't believe that men can become women, Society believes that men can become trans women which is a whole different thing.  However many of us don't transition to be trans women.

And many men have zero interest in dating trans women because they do not consider trans women to be women.  And truthfully it isn't something where we can make a broad generalization either way and instead it is something more personal and tends to be evaluated on a case by case basis.  In other words does transsexual woman X seem like a female to you?  Would you date her or consider female?  Would you marry transsexual woman X, would you risk being seen with her knowing it might change other people's perception of your sexual orientation?

So it goes deeper than a flat butt or some belly fat.

I use women who were born female as my role model.  Just like women who were born female I will never admit to being a man or a transsexual woman.  Do I pass 100%?  No... I don't.  But there is so much trans-awareness these days that many women who were born female don't pass either so I just stick to the truth I adopted long ago, I have always been female.  I don't add in the part about that being why I transitioned.

Life is what you make it.  My prescription won't work for people who haven't finished transition.  People who have not finished transition tend to feel like they are harboring secrets.  If someone is serious about living the life of her target sex then she will do everything possible to have that life, including moving and exchanging old friends and associates, coworkers... for new ones.  Many of us compromise and spend the rest of our lives disappointed.

Essentially you can't tell Society that you are a man who became a woman and be accepted as female.  There is a feeling that we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.  It is possible to find men who will accept us.  It is also possible to accept ourselves as female and to no longer need acceptance from others.  I feel that the best option for myself is self-acceptance, I accept myself as female, as a woman.  And other people are expected to do the same however I don't contradict myself anymore or send mixed messages that people can't wrap their minds around.  I am just another vanilla woman out there 24/7.  I don't confess to being anything other than that.

If someone noticed my scars down there I would ask, "Are you trying to say you don't love me anymore?"  I would never allow it to become a conversation that changed my gender.  I would also avoid lying.  In my own opinion lying is lazy.  Don't get me wrong I have lied before and I would do it again but with someone who is supposed to love me there are alternatives like I mentioned at the beginning of this paragraph.

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Kupcake

I think his initial response pretty much says it all.

You told him about your gender history when he hadn't noticed it before.  But now, magically, "he can tell."  Really think about that response.  He's not seeing anything new physically.  It's not like he's suddenly blinking his eyes and getting better eyesight and a clearer mind.

What has actually changed?  Now you've told him, and now he's forcing himself to see you as something he sees as fundamentally different and inferior.  And it sounds like that process took all of ten seconds after you told him.  I don't really know him, so I can't say for sure, but I'd bet good money this is a person who will never be completely accepting of a transgendered partner.  This isn't about gender.  When you have a partner who microscopically focuses on what they see as your "flaws", who are afraid of the backlash if their friends see their "flawed" partner, that almost always is just a reflection of their own lack of self-confidence.  And this mix of insecurity and projection is a toxic combination to have in a partner.  It only ever escalates.  Heck, you've already seen it escalate.

If you're ever going to be happy in a relationship, you need someone who first and foremost sees something a lot simpler: "you."  Not woman or trans woman or whatever else.

And conditions?  Really?  Especially isolating you from his social circle, like some shameful fact of his life to be avoided.  Do you really think he respects you as a person at this point?  What he's saying doesn't even make sense.  I want you to realize that.  It doesn't make sense, and it's not about you.

Stop for a second and think about the actual range you yourself have seen in cis women.  Some are slim and beautiful and radiant.  And some are plain-faced, square-jawed, with more than a little extra around the waist.  I'm not saying that's you.  My point is that even for cis women with features like that, almost nobody thinks, "Oh yeah, she was definitely born male."  I haven't seen you, but if you passed to him for weeks, then I'm 99% sure you pass perfectly fine, and this fear of you being "clocked" is 99% in his head.

This seems to be going in a very bad direction.  You don't need guys like him.  It's fine to have partners who you don't have a deep emotional connection with, who you're just casually dating, provided they at least respect you.  That's kissing a few toads.  This guy does not respect you.  Entering into a relationship with somebody who is displaying emotionally abusive tendencies right off the bat isn't it.

You can definitely do better than that.  I'm not saying that to chide you.  I honestly believe there is much better out there for you.  Just be patient and respect yourself.  It's easier to find companionship and happiness by doing that than by swinging at every bad pitch which comes your way.

I don't really know what to tell you about disclosure.  That's a really messy topic.  I'll defer to the experience of older and wiser women on that.

But I have been down the "take what I can get" road where I ignored what I needed and wanted for the sake of "being with someone."  It's great.  You can have as many partners as you ever want, and they'll all think you're great, and you'll tell yourself you need them, and you'll wake up each morning a little more empty.  It messes you up.  And if you started messed up, like me, it messes you up even more.  That's really not what you need.

Just realize you're worth more than this.  You deserve a man with the balls and self-respect to know everything about you and your gender history and still feel proud to have you on his arm going down the street.  That's not this guy.  But he is out there.  Don't sell yourself short.
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Saffron

I think it's better to give people time to know you until you start telling them.

That guy isn't telling you his own private things for sure!

Also, you should find another man who isn't ashamed of you being TS. you are better than him.
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dj1990

All I can offer here is to tell you that it's better to tell them right away.
There is some psychos out there and sadly I have heard of situations where the girl
was beat up and yes even killed after she tells her bf. It's better to tell them right away
and in public. There is a lot of bisexual men who will not be even slightly
bothered by it.

I think you should always remember that for your own safety because
even if you hide it like your friend, they might find out somehow.

Of course if you live in a really primitive rural area there is ways
to find out if it's safe to tell him....I mean once you get into a conversation
you can always find out how conservative he is and his views on homosexuals
and transexuals.
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ToriJo

As a guy, the boyfriend's behavior here is disgusting and definitely nothing to do with love.

Love cares about others, not one self.

I love my wife.  More than anyone else or anything else I love.  That means I'd risk my job, my friends, my finances, my security, my ego, my reputation and even my life for her.  I believe she would do the same for me.  That's what it is supposed to look like.

Certainly, I'm sure there are things she'd like me to be different than I am.  And no doubt there are things that I'd like to be different in her.  But I love who she is, not who I want her to be.

She asked me about some cosmetic surgery a while ago that might make it easier for her to pass.  My response still holds: I love you, I love the way you look.  If you want surgery for yourself, if it is something YOU want, I'll be there for you through it and help you any way I can.  But I don't need it, nor do I want you to do it for me.

I'd add that this type of relationship, with conditions and desire to change, as well as making sure nobody knows (or practically nobody) seems exactly like the kind of relationships that end up with violence.  It's the trans person's fault when she doesn't pass and the transphobic boyfriend's friends/family/employer finds out.  But the reality is that it's going to come out at some point - it's impossible to cover all tracks and history.  (edit: when I say it's the trans person's fault, I mean to say *in the eyes of the violent creep, it's the trans person's fault* - obviously no victim is at fault for violence, but I left that key part out!).

Please, find someone who loves you, not hates who you are.
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Shantel

Quote from: Slanan on December 09, 2012, 10:28:33 AM
As a guy, the boyfriend's behavior here is disgusting and definitely nothing to do with love.

Love cares about others, not one self.

I love my wife.  More than anyone else or anything else I love.  That means I'd risk my job, my friends, my finances, my security, my ego, my reputation and even my life for her.  I believe she would do the same for me.  That's what it is supposed to look like.


Please, find someone who loves you, not hates who you are.

Great post Sianan, that goes ditto for me too!
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Meshi

Kick his *ss to the curb is my opinion lol!  After you told him, then he tells you that now since you told him he sees the male in you?? Wtf is up with that?? He did not know at all and is just using that as an excuse, because his manhood cant deal with it.  After realizing you are "hot" and a nice person, he wants to date you, but there are "conditions"?? Screw that!..  You do not need that kind of relationship.  There are plenty of guys that will respect you for who you are.  What he is doing is abusive and you are an attractive person.  You dont need that kind of man in your life. I can not believe you want to put up with this nonsense.  Just because you are TS doesnt mean you have to take that from a guy. I will bet you are more attractive as a woman than he is a man  You are a woman..be treated like one, and he is NOT.
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MaidofOrleans

Quote from: Icephoenyx on November 30, 2012, 05:09:00 PM
Thank you all for the help --- UPDATE: So he has come around and we are dating now, but there are a few 'conditions' if you will:

First, no one else can know, except for a very select few friends and family he is very close with.

Second, I have to pass every second of everyday to fulfill the above condition of no one else knowing.

Third, in order to pass more than I already do, I have to go on a diet and exercise more. He says that I have a belly and a flat ass (both I agree with) and that gives me away because guys get fat in their abdomen and girls get fat in their rear. Again, I agree with this, but the way he keeps pointing this out is kind of tough.

He also said that he doesn't really want to bring me to his company xmas party because I might be clocked and his rep will be ruined. Understandable -- we are still trying to compromise.

I do think passing is important, and I already pressure myself a lot, so I don't really want it also coming from someone else. But I do get his concern, especially since he's never been with a transgirl.

Is he being a bit harsh, even though I get it, and to some extent, agree with him?

Ok Ice sweetheart if a guy ever made conditions like that, I would kick him to the curb immediately.

I say drop his butt and find someone who cares enough and has enough human decency. If a guy made those conditions with any cis girl I guarentee he'd regret it.

What a jerk...




"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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Brooke777

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on December 11, 2012, 05:07:29 AM
Ok Ice sweetheart if a guy ever made conditions like that, I would kick him to the curb immediately.

I say drop his butt and find someone who cares enough and has enough human decency. If a guy made those conditions with any cis girl I guarentee he'd regret it.

What a jerk...

I agree. He is being unrealistic and is totally not worth the worry. I say get rid of him. If he can't like you for you, then he doesn't deserve you.
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Chaos

There is a song that goes *your love is what i want but what i need is a man who will treat me good* imperfection will always be found in everything,even people.its only when we stop looking for perfection that we find,we have what we need.you will never *sadly enough* find a perfect man,relationship or love.so i think its time to put away the images and open up to what you two can fulfill for each other emotionaly,physicaly,and mentaly.for example,blue eyes are very beautiful ill admit but someone with dark eyes show a warmth,compassion and deepness about them.and NEVER give away such information to anyone until you know their feelings on such issues first.ask questions and see their reaction *how do you feel about things like --- ?* and work up the ladder,in time IF they are ment for you-they will take that information well and even walk with you and if they show alot of distance,non acceptance then walk away-never look back and find someone else who will.such opinions are a mental state,not the heart.things we are taught as we grow up,so many are not going to accept that.alot of the older people anyway,i was taught not too but my heart over rides the rubbish and coldness people tried to make me follow.so i like to think as a child born in the 70's *during war,free love and much liberation* i was a rare breed in a time when hatred ran rampant. so my advice to you is 1) let go of the perfection-when looking for someone to accept you,perfection is the last thing you will find. 2) be slow with your heart and learn what you need before hand,find out who they are mentaly and their views then act accourdingly. these will help you ALOT in the long run.
All Thing's Come With A Price...
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calixx

This is why it's bad to associate with the normals or mainstream society as you say.
Try dating within a more queer-friendly social pool.
Maybe okcupid. I've had good luck there.
I'm one of those Chloe's you may know.
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natastic

Quote from: Michelle Hayden on December 10, 2012, 06:51:57 AM
Kick his *ss to the curb is my opinion lol!

Seconded.  DTMFA.

For me, personally, it would put me under too much strain, and give this potential partner too much power over me, to adhere to a list of conditions in order to be together.

It's not fair to you.  Yeah yeah, life is rarely fair, but it's nice to exercise control over those precious few things in life we have control over.

Being alone sucks (sometimes), but I would choose not to settle for a situation in which I feel like I can't be myself without reference to someone else's demands.

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Elle

I don't think you should have told him, if you pass AND had SRS then why tell him? Your just gonna keep getting rejected over your birth gender. Maybe you'll meet a straight guy who doesn't care but chances are very slim. Most straight guys if they had a choice would choose a cis female over a trans female, it's sad but true.
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MaidofOrleans

Quote from: PoisonEnvy on December 20, 2012, 07:38:54 PM
I don't think you should have told him, if you pass AND had SRS then why tell him? Your just gonna keep getting rejected over your birth gender. Maybe you'll meet a straight guy who doesn't care but chances are very slim. Most straight guys if they had a choice would choose a cis female over a trans female, it's sad but true.

Sometimes you can't control who you fall in love with.
"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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Annah

First, I want to applaud you for coming out to him.

I am a big advocate for telling people you are in a relationship about the truth.

In the world, I am stealth. I am a woman. I do not even classify myself as transsexual unless I have to in a medical situation. I don't go to trans support groups and the only involvement in transgender issues I am involved in is this website. Other than that, I have no involvement anymore.

With that said, I am 100% telling the man or woman you are dating about your past.

A lot of trans people say "who cares!" or "It's none of their business." But when someone begins to share their life with you, it starts to become their business and when someone is intimate it is certainly their business.

Sometimes I think the ones who say "Who cares if you tell him" ever had a trans related relationship. I am not trying to sound mean ...what I am trying to say is that when a relationship develops honesty, trust, and the sharing of each others lives become part of the relationship process. You cannot keep that a secret. Your family past, any time you go to the hospital with your lover, and everything else will eventually have them find out.

I also have heard people say, like PoisonEnvy, "your just gonna keep getting rejected over your birth gender."

That's an absolutely false statement. I told guys who asked me out (even before my surgery) and I have had VERY wonderful relationships with VERY wonderful men. DO NOT let the nay sayers bring you down. I am proof that there are men who are not ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s who will step beyond their level of "normalcy" if they care for you.

Something to think about to those who say "I don't think you should tell him."  Next time, take a look at the transgenders who was killed and honored on Transgender Day of Remembrance. Many of them were victims of being in a relationship where their boyfriend found out without the girl telling them.

I have had boyfriends, I have told them on day one. I am here to tell you what you did was right.
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MaidofOrleans

Quote from: Annah on December 22, 2012, 09:54:03 PM
First, I want to applaud you for coming out to him.

I am a big advocate for telling people you are in a relationship about the truth.

In the world, I am stealth. I am a woman. I do not even classify myself as transsexual unless I have to in a medical situation. I don't go to trans support groups and the only involvement in transgender issues I am involved in is this website. Other than that, I have no involvement anymore.

With that said, I am 100% telling the man or woman you are dating about your past.

A lot of trans people say "who cares!" or "It's none of their business." But when someone begins to share their life with you, it starts to become their business and when someone is intimate it is certainly their business.

Sometimes I think the ones who say "Who cares if you tell him" ever had a trans related relationship. I am not trying to sound mean ...what I am trying to say is that when a relationship develops honesty, trust, and the sharing of each others lives become part of the relationship process. You cannot keep that a secret. Your family past, any time you go to the hospital with your lover, and everything else will eventually have them find out.

I also have heard people say, like PoisonEnvy, "your just gonna keep getting rejected over your birth gender."

That's an absolutely false statement. I told guys who asked me out (even before my surgery) and I have had VERY wonderful relationships with VERY wonderful men. DO NOT let the nay sayers bring you down. I am proof that there are men who are not ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s who will step beyond their level of "normalcy" if they care for you.

Something to think about to those who say "I don't think you should tell him."  Next time, take a look at the transgenders who was killed and honored on Transgender Day of Remembrance. Many of them were victims of being in a relationship where their boyfriend found out without the girl telling them.

I have had boyfriends, I have told them on day one. I am here to tell you what you did was right.

This, This and This!
"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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Icephoenyx

Quote from: PoisonEnvy on December 20, 2012, 07:38:54 PM
I don't think you should have told him, if you pass AND had SRS then why tell him? Your just gonna keep getting rejected over your birth gender. Maybe you'll meet a straight guy who doesn't care but chances are very slim. Most straight guys if they had a choice would choose a cis female over a trans female, it's sad but true.

Again, I have two huge scars down there that he would have eventually seen. Then what?

Also...
Quote from: calixx on December 15, 2012, 06:40:49 PM
This is why it's bad to associate with the normals or mainstream society as you say.
Try dating within a more queer-friendly social pool.
Maybe okcupid. I've had good luck there.


I ID as a very straight female who goes for very straight masc men. The queer community will likely do nothing for me in terms of a romantic relationship.

I understand what everyone is saying, I don't deserve this. It's just that sometimes I feel like I can't really have those standards because he could go for a cisgirl in a second. And I know there are cisgirls out there who are into him, I've met them and it was pretty obvious.

Second, I do need some sort of motivation to get into shape. Maybe he's providing this kick in the butt to look better. I don't want to look like I'm defending him but I am trying to see this from different angles.....what do you all think?
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Stephe

Quote from: Icephoenyx on November 30, 2012, 05:09:00 PM

Is he being a bit harsh, even though I get it, and to some extent, agree with him?

I'm on the fence on this. I want to pass when I'm out with my BF too. We hold hands etc in public and we do want to be seen as a male/female couple. He has never told me "You need to do X" but I want to look good for him. He has said things like "You look better _____" but mostly trying to help me and be honest. He's never said anything that hurt my feelings.

Might be time to say "Look, I know I need to lose some weight and I want to look good for you. I appreciate your input and I want this to work out and I think it will." to let him know he needs to back off just a bit but that you hear him and appreciate his concerns.

You did make the right move to tell him. Honesty is very important for anything other than a "friends with benefits" type relationship. If he is still on board, he must really like you! :)
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Saffron

Quote from: Icephoenyx on December 24, 2012, 10:08:01 AM

I understand what everyone is saying, I don't deserve this. It's just that sometimes I feel like I can't really have those standards because he could go for a cisgirl in a second. And I know there are cisgirls out there who are into him, I've met them and it was pretty obvious.

Second, I do need some sort of motivation to get into shape. Maybe he's providing this kick in the butt to look better. I don't want to look like I'm defending him but I am trying to see this from different angles.....what do you all think?

What if a cisgirl says that she needs to look like a model just for her boyfriend to stay with her? That sounds ok?


In a relationship, what matters most is the personality and how each one complements the other. Are you sure you want to stay with someone who only wants your looks? What if you get ill, or need help? doesn't sounds like he cares at all about you.


Getting into shape is a good thing, but I think you must to do it for yourself, not for the people.

We need to love ourselves first in order to love others.
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